Are Vypers, CWE Jetbikes, Hornets useful to a DE list?

Visually it looks nice to see CWE heavy jetbikes supporting DE skimmers, but is it effective?

Does a dual cannon vyper or heavily armed hornet add anything to DE lists? How about a corsair venom with scatter laser?
Does the 7e rules change of everything being scoring make CWE jetbikes less valuable?

Not sure about the Vipers but Hornets, bikes and warwalkers certainly fit DE lists. Objective secure with 48 move is very valueble in maelstrom missions. Same with outflacking S6 shooting.

Sorry, but what are hornets?

Zenotaph wrote:

Sorry, but what are hornets?

Small forgeworld skimmer

looks nice, but haven`t played them. I only remember that they can shoot snap shots after turboboost

Ah, I see. We don't play with forgeworld models. Need a credit card to buy them...

The Hornet is 15pts more than a Vyper for AV 11/11/10, not open topped, scout, and star engines. They can take pulse lasers but it might not mean anything for a DE army that has darklances anyways

It's actualy 5 points less than a Vyper for the vastly superior Hornet. You can even do a direct comparison between the FW Hornet and the Codex Eldar Vyper. Both are Fast Attack. Both are fast skimmers. Both come in squadrons of 1-3 vehicles. Both BS4. Both can have the same armament of 2 x Shuriken Cannon and can have the Star Engine upgrade (so we can compare like with like). But the Hornet is AV 11/11/10 vs the Vypers 10/10/10 and the Hornet comes with Scout, Acute Senses and Skimmer Assault rules and is not open-topped. Plus you can upgrade both of the Hornets weapons to better ones whereas only one is upgradable (from the Shuriken Cannon) on the Vyper. The Vyper is 75 points and the Hornet is 70! Other than monetary issues, there is no real game reason why you would ever choose the more expensive and less effective Vyper. And the Hornet is an absolute beast in game terms, to the extent that I'm currently considering dropping my Wraithknight in favour of 3 of them!

I have one vyper squadron, armed with starcannons. Pretty nice thing to kill enemy troops

Between Venoms, Eldar warwalkers and Hornets Vypers are not very attractive choice. S6 is nice but other platforms do it better. They don't have transport capacity nor objective secured rule. Warwalkers can outflanck. They are fast though but so are Hornets. In this comppany of four "similar" crafts they excel in nothing compared to the others.

Sad but true.

And I suppose if it's relevant, I'd say that Hornets are beautiful models which are better looking than vypers.

Vasara wrote:

Between Venoms, Eldar warwalkers and Hornets Vypers are not very attractive choice. S6 is nice but other platforms do it better. They don't have transport capacity nor objective secured rule. Warwalkers can outflanck. They are fast though but so are Hornets. In this comppany of four "similar" crafts they excel in nothing compared to the others.

Sad but true.

What about their AA capabilities? Vypers and venoms don't have any. Walkers do, when you pay for it.
I don't know, if hornets have any...

Hornets don't have any AA, but for Eldar you generally will not go for AA in the heavy slot ever. Way too pricey for a few Str7 shots with crappy AP. If you really want AA you go for crimson hunters...otherwise Eldar and DE have weak AA as a whole, with DE fairing the worst obviously.

Also as said previously, Hornets with pulse lasers = amazing. I wish I could afford 3.

ligolski wrote:

Also as said previously, Hornets with pulse lasers = amazing. I wish I could afford 3.

Mod those Vypers to hornets as they are not going get used any time soon.

To be honest, Hornets aren't bad AA themselves due to high volume S8 AP2 shooting. If you Guide them they are even better!

Count Adhemar wrote:

To be honest, Hornets aren't bad AA themselves due to high volume S8 AP2 shooting. If you Guide them they are even better!

And they can move 30" before they shoot snapshots. So hey are going to be in very good position every time. Or go backwards to get the guide in range.

I've been looking to mod my vypers into hornets by painting the canopy into a solid color and replacing the turret gunner with another underslung weapon so it's somewhat placed like a hornet's stinger.

The hornet is a strange vehicle though, a light skimmer with double the main battle cannons of the Eldar's grav tank.


How about the corsair Wasp? It can only be taken if you take corsair troops, but corsair troops can ride in venoms or falcons or use jump packs. The Corsair Prince can also drop a 1 turn nightfight which helps out the Dark brethren

They can all be brought with unbound,...

Hornets with pulse lasers and holofields look great, I'm just not sure they are preferable to ravagers (thinking of my army where I'd need to trade out).
Both are av 11. Both are str 8 ap2.
Ravagers have 3 lance shots, aerial assault to always shoot 3 times, and 3 hull points for 105 pts.
Hornets have 4 shots non lance, shoot 2 times full bs over 6", 2 hull points with +1 cover if moved, for 95 pts.

I'd like to try a couple but they seem pretty equal.. for those of you who have used both which did you prefer and why?

Edit- brainfart on the pulse laser profile.

Brom you can also take Hornets in squadrons of 1-3 and occupy the FA slot instead. To me that makes them far better.

I think your right. The major equalizer was me incorrectly thinking the pulse lasers were 4 one shot weapons rather than 2 two shot weapons.
Im about to run a series of games with 2 x 1 hornets in place of my ravagers. After a lot of theory and math hammer they seem strictly superior, especially with scout redeployment shenanigans!

I think all these options add a lot. But GameCube the hornets are the most cost effectively I've on the table imo.

Brom wrote:

I think your right. The major equalizer was me incorrectly thinking the pulse lasers were 4 one shot weapons rather than 2 two shot weapons.
Im about to run a series of games with 2 x 1 hornets in place of my ravagers. After a lot of theory and math hammer they seem strictly superior, especially with scout redeployment shenanigans!

I look forward to that batrep!
Though do you think your anti AV14 abilities will suffer for it?