Equiping Scourge

So, I've been reading my new 'dex, and like most people, I've been thinking about how to arm the units of Scourge I'll now be running.

Most stuff I've read seems to suggest Haywire or Heatlance, with very little mention of the Blaster.
Blaster in some ways seems superior to the heatlance, it has longer (effective) range, higher S, but it lacks melta. Is Melta the only thing that makes Heatlances preferable? (and there is a point difference)
Melta seems like a sketchy rule to rely on, as it requires the Scourge to move/DS pretty close(9") to the target, then hope to roll 6+^ on 2D6 to glance/pen.
Blaster stands off 18", needs 4+^ to glance/pen
Haywire does what haywire does. Sweet.

So am I missing something? How come the Heatlance is rated superior to Blaster on Scourge?
Cheers

HL are Melta and yes thats why you take them, for Land Raiders and Knights. HL are 9" effective range, where haywire is 24" and can glance down Land Raiders and Knights also, just harder to get off a Pen, They are also good at Light infantry like Path Finders being S4 AP4.

We also have many Lances from Raiders and Blasterborns, or even New Reaver set ups.

Blasters are ap 2 and heatlances are ap 1. Twice as likely to get an explodes result.

I've been thinking about this recently, here's some of my (admittedly terrible) math hammer, assuming 4 shots, 2.666 hits...

HWB - average 2.1666 HP off, 0.444 of which are pens.
Bl vs 10 average 2.222 HP off, vs 11 - average 1.777 HP off, vs 12< Average 1.333 HP off

So, only against Av10 are blasters as good as HWB, everything else HWB is better, although they can't cause a lucky explosion. HWB also have longer range.

Heat Lances are the thing that I'm trying to work out at the moment. In half range they're good, but that's a lot of ifs. I think I'm going to run 2 squads of 5 scourge, one with Heat Lances and one with HWB, then stick a HQ with WWP with the heat lance ones, perfectly position the deep strike and smash up something when they arrive. The other Scourge will also DS, but if they scatter their guns have enough range to cover themselves.

Also, I think that Ravagers are not as dead as everyone seems to think: I'm going to use them to finish off a vehicle that my scourges have almost knocked out, but give them the option to go for something else or move flat out if they manage it themselves.

I intend to run a unit with 4 HL and a second with 4 HWB

I think both have their place, with the HWB glancing 3HP vehicles to death easily enough (back up with a single 3 DL ravage to be sure) and the HL unit tackling heavy targets via deep strike (with a WWP if need be)

Blasters still have their place namely against multi wound T4 models. But I think more than 1 Haywire/Heat Lance units of Scourge will be needed on the field. Don't forget their 12" movement too so Haywire Blasters have an effective 36" range. They lost Deepstrike, but can start with a WWP carrier if needed.

Scourge are the new Trueborn IMO.

1++ wrote:

Blasters still have their place namely against multi wound T4 models. But I think more than 1 Haywire/Heat Lance units of Scourge will be needed on the field. Don't forget their 12" movement too so Haywire Blasters have an effective 36" range. They lost Deepstrike, but can start with a WWP carrier if needed.

Scourge are the new Trueborn IMO.

Scourge still have deep strike. All jump units have it.

1++ wrote:

They lost Deepstrike, but can start with a WWP carrier if needed.

If you're talking about Scourges, they definitely didn't lose Deep Strike. As Jump Infantry they always have it. Ninja'd!

I agree with people saying at least one unit of HWB and one of HL are a good idea, with a Ravager as backup. And yeah if the points are around adding a WWP HQ is worth it with the HL unit. But what to equip the HQ with? Archon/blaster/WWP/shadowfield to troll return fire?

Laughingcarp wrote:

1++ wrote:

They lost Deepstrike, but can start with a WWP carrier if needed.

If you're talking about Scourges, they definitely didn't lose Deep Strike. As Jump Infantry they always have it. Ninja'd!

I agree with people saying at least one unit of HWB and one of HL are a good idea, with a Ravager as backup. And yeah if the points are around adding a WWP HQ is worth it with the HL unit. But what to equip the HQ with? Archon/blaster/WWP/shadowfield to troll return fire?

In my book, 5-man 4HWB squads are the way to go. They are the most reliable source of AT we've EVER had. And even if they are a bit suicidal, sometimes it's worth to sacrifice the unit for taking out some vehicle that's going to cost us much more points in later game.

10-man strong units will be prone to failed deep strikes and harder to keep in some reasonable cover.

I think heatlances are domain of the Reavers. I dont want Scourges to deepstrike with them in 9 range, thats a hell of a gamble.

Haywires seems way more reliable. And there is no need to deepstrike at all, or deepstrike too close. I dont want them to kill 1 vehicles. I want them to kill 2 or 3 vehicles.

Azdrubael wrote:

I think heatlances are domain of the Reavers. I dont want Scourges to deepstrike with them in 9 range, thats a hell of a gamble.

Haywires seems way more reliable. And there is no need to deepstrike at all, or deepstrike too close. I dont want them to kill 1 vehicles. I want them to kill 2 or 3 vehicles.

Only time I would deep strike them would be against knight or the like.

All haywire blasters, all the time. The range on allows them to pick their targets better, and when you've stripped off all the hull points and left a vehicle as a wreck, it's providing cover as they advance to their next target. They can be much more effective than wyches ever were, because they can wreck multiple vehicles without having to get right up in their grilles

I agree that Scourges are now as good, if not better, than HWG Wyches ever were.  A 36 inch threat range on 4 HWB blasts is pretty awesome and at a very reasonable cost as well.  They cost just as much as HWG Wyches and mandatory transport required to keep them alive did and they may not even die hideously after they've wrecked something like Wyches did.    3 x 5 man squads with four HWB should kill 2-3 vehicles. And that's before we even factor in assault with Grots, Sslyths, Reavers, Taloi, and shooting from Ravagers (R.I.P?), Void Ravens, and Blasterborn.   Now, to be clear, I wish we still had the option of HWG Wyches as well, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd choose HWB Scourges every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I used them today, 3 squads with HWB and 1 with HL.

Had horrendous dice rolls on the haywire took two HP off a land raider and two HP off a rhino, the third haywire a squad died to thunder fire cannon before they could do anything. The heat lance guys died from deep strike mishap!

That is why I think HwB all the way. For 1k points I'm looking to take two. Very cheap to DS or start on the board.
You really need WWP to get value out of HL and thus you pay a lot for a high risk unit.
I was even considering an agonizer Solarite because he's so cheap.

Lets say I take 4 HL. Then they need to be w/in 9".

The blast pistol has 8" range.

Lets say I WWP them with an archon with a blaster, or blast pistol. (Shame they can't have 2 blast pistols anymore). so I could DS them w/in 8"

Would a solarite with blast pistol be worth it? It's quite expensive for a single darklight shot, but still.

Haywires

Pros- Longer range, Consistent, Works against all targets.
Cons- Not much role outside tank hunting

Heat Lances

Pros- Destroys things like no tomorrow, Can also be used to murder Heavy Infantry.
Cons- Requires lucky deep strike or skillful cover hopping. Most likely die after destroying their target.

I'm trying to decide what to give my sole unit of Scourges.

SO now the question is where do I go to get all these bit to make extra HWB?

Online bits stores? More boxes of scourges?

From the talos kit it contains two! There is also this stuff my friend gave me that you can make moulds of anything fill it with green stuff then hey presto! More weapons .

cougar_roger wrote:

SO now the question is where do I go to get all these bit to make extra HWB?

You could always convert them: www.thedarkcity.net/t10032-converting-haywire-scourges

Thanks for the tip on the talos conversion, I will have to go through my sprues when I get home and take an inventory of what I have.

I say HWB like most, for the range, and for the "sure" thing. We don't get orders, chapter tactics, or psychic powers, and very little twin-link. We have to make sure when we hit something it works the first time. Melta/lance has a good risk/reward being AP1, but there was a reason haywire wyches were so good, and it wasn't because they made tanks explode. Now that the damage chart has effectively been scaled back, stripping off a hullpoint on a 2+ sounds more enticing than causing an explosion on a 5+.

Crazy_Ivan wrote:

From the talos kit it contains two! There is also this stuff my friend gave me that you can make moulds of anything fill it with green stuff then hey presto! More weapons .

I am considering the TL-HwB to be used on the Chronos. So I'm going to use my instant-mould to create more HwB.

Just to bring it back to scourges. Haywire scourges are awesome. But its faulty pointless to deepstrike them into harms way. The mobility and the auto wreck is awesome. If you were going to ds them, I would do it mid table if at all, depending on board layout.

Heatlance scourges. I'm gonna prepare for an onslaught here, are not worthwhile suicide units. Even if they do get the perfect deepstrike and do wreck a tank. They don't have the resilience to put up with much. Especially considering their potential effectiveness. At least if you suicide squad a bunch if melta or flamer sternguard they get near perfect deepstrike, first turn (drop pod), and can put up with a fair amount of fire which gives the rest of the army a bit of relief.
I would rather use them with haywires, if I wanted to blow something up, I would take blasters perhaps.  I don't want to sacrifice our arguably best AT just to get one tank, I want them taking out 2 or 3 while keeping out of the way. Let the reavers go into their faces and soak up the fire while the Scourges pester unnoticed.

In my humble opinion.