A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

hm. I wil have all these models.

So here is my lst list just for you J but it is anything but OP ( I will not write or suggest OP lists anymore ...

CAD
HQ: Zahndrekh
Troops: Warriors X 10, Ghost Ark
Troops: Warriors x 20  
Elite: C’Tan Shard of the Deceiver
Fast Attack: Wraiths X 5, Whip Coils
Heavy: Transcendent C'Tan


Formation: Conclave of the Burning One
C’Tan Shard of Nightbringer
Cryptek, Solar Staff, God Shackle, Phaseshifter
Cryptek, Veil of Darkness, Phaseshifter

You have ObSec troops and THREE C'tan, one of each. C.mon ... you know you want to play C'Tans. Let the fun commence.  No ... it is not decurion - you get no bonuses that way but even without the +1 this list has all the weapons it needs.
Now the list has some very slow elements to it. C'Tans where everything moves 12" are now not so hot. At least the Transcensdent can DS though. And writhing worldscape and ignoringb terrain is a benefit.

But if you really want to be sneaky you can use this ...

CAD
HQ: Cryptek, Chronometron
Troops: Warriors X 15
Troops: Warriors x 15
Elite: C’Tan Shard of the Deceiver
Fast Attack: Wraiths x 5, Whip Coils
Heavy: Monolith
Heavy: Monolith  

Formation: Conclave of the Burning One
C’Tan Shard of Nightbringer
Cryptek, Solar Staff, God Shackle, Phaseshifter
Cryptek, Veil of Darkness, Solar Thermasite, Phaseshifter

So now you can do some interesting things by pulling C'Tans through the Monoliths and repositioning when needed. You also have a hammer cc unit in the Wraiths. So the list - also slow compensates a bit by using the Deceiver to mess with your opponent by taking a unit  or units off the table and puting them in reserve to then pop out the Monoliths.

Bear in mind that the Monoliths and C'Tan can if they want deepstrike. So this list ois a little different from list one. No extra C'Tan. But you should not diss the Monolith and follow the smart guys on the 'net'. It is a skimmer ... it is AV14 ... it has IWND ... it can target multiple targets ... it can pull units from reserve or the table.

This list has options that list one lacks although quite similar.

Im curious how you'd legally pull the C'Tan through the Monolith? they are Monstrous creatures, right?

You are quite right J. Monoliths can no longer pull the C'Tans through the gate - I just ralized the rule had changed. But they can still pull the warriors and the C'tans can hide behind these moving pieces of terrain. That said I think one Obelisk is better than two monoliths now.

Also in chat someone asked me why I hate playing at 1000 points. This is why

Inquisitor - 2x servo skulls
3x Henchmen - 2x acolyte w/ meltaguns, 1x psyker, + Rhino
Knight Paladin
Knight Errant

No one really is prepared to deal with two IKs at 1000. You can also see dual C'Tans at 1000 or even tri WKs. All these lists are clearly OP at that level.

Maybe you could just agree not to use super heavy stuff in those games?

Well, obviously super heavies should not be played at 1000 points. Unfortunately the game is changing. Every major event is flush with IKs and FW. You need to make lists capable of handling them but at 1000 points it gets cheesy indeed. It's just not polite.

Well I hate to say it but as good as i am at this game, I just may never go to any of these majors. It is so expensive to travel that far for any reason, but even were i willing to commit that money, I just don't know how much shenanigans in one day that I can really take after paying that much money, if you see what I mean. Lol. You pay ALL that money to go have an "awesome weekend of gaming" only to find out it wasn't so awesome.

I suppose if our store would sponsor us to go that would be cool but... That's not happening either.

Of the majors uch as Bay Area Open, NOVA, Adepticon and so on, which ones make the most sense to go to if I wanted to?

Things that people think are awesome aren't actually that good as first expected. Hope leads to disappointment as they say, especially if you pay loads of money to travel the activity in the first place.

Right. At one point I was dead set on attending one, and then I just kind of lost my interest. I get on forums and read that people consider you to have nothing to say unless you've placed highly in those events and that's a real shame. But my pride isn't so great that i need thsoe events to convince me that I'm accomplished. TWO days of gaming is going to magically make a statement about me? Nah. I don't think so.

On the other hand, I enjoy a couple of local events. One i run, and the other is about 100 players usually and it is far more friendly than the other 100+ events I'v done. But it is mostly a big drinking binge weekend sort of event, and not truly a hard core tournament (though try telling that to some of my opponents two years ago).

I'm really hoping the gaming community turns it around and I feel like their powering down of the codex's is really helping. I noticed that Count Adhemar says the necron codex is a power up. I disagree. I played against it last night and while that army is really tough to kill, it was also essentially functioning how i would have imagined it functioning. And thats really what I like abotu the new codex's. The units are more closely doing what they are SUPPOSED to do. An assault unit SHOULD have some way to strike at a decent init, and should be hearty in that situation. We've seen that happen to assault units now more often.

Shooting units should also be very good at their jobs as they will soon be swarmed. Let the shooty guys have their two rounds of furor. thats how it should be.

And well balanced lists are just looking more and more like it. I cant say that they curvbed abuse entirely. but No one can tell me that the 5th Edition Blood Angels haven't been recovered from. i feel we turned that corner and that now you have codex's that make the army and its units RESEMBLE the function for which they were created. Flayed ones are now every bit as menacing as they should have been and I actually look forward to seeing more and more underused units getting playing time.

No world is perfect but we're living in an increasingly more fair one in 40K.

Progress!

I give Games WorkShop a lot more credit than most i suppose but I just have to say I really do like the direction even though there is absolutely things I would change.

Well Adamantine Lance ruined some tourney goers day. Had one at the top tables. It won (but didnt win the tournament) against an excellent general.

that formation is mighty.

If AdLance ruins your day in a tournament you do not deserve to win it. I mean if it's allowed you should have some way to (or even a plan) to fight it. It's not that powerfull compared to other thigs out there.

I'm surprised that new necrons where not on the top lists.

And Nayden should get some marketing bonus from GW for playing those Lictors. They were out stock for a brief while

Yeah his name is fun to say isn't it?

AdLance isn't weak. While certain lists will deal well with it, i cannto really say the majority do. Not the majority that are actually built for any comeres.

thats why Adamantine lance doesnt dominate. It has a hard counter, butthe guy using the hard counter is rarely headed for the top table himself because his hard counter isnt multidimensional enough to make it through the gauntlet.

I dunno. It's more of a "no fun for anyone" thing. Even if it doesnt win, two dudes usually had a real bad day because of it. Lol.

I got my second game in with Necrons.  I had first turn.  We played Purge the Alien, Hammer and Anvil.

I deployed a single 10 man Necron Unit with its Cryptek on the board.  He deployed everything except his Deep Striking Death Wings (3 of them).  I knew they could come in turn one so I decided to play it safe and make sure that I'd get to see where he was coming in before bringing my stuff in and obviously getting the shot off before he could assault would be wise.

i also had the Warlord Trait to manipulate my reserves so i was in really good shape.  

And.  then...  He seized the initiative...  And so this is what it looked like turn two...

Rolling perfect six's on their Move move move orders of course in the back there.



DeathWing Incoming Turn one which means in turn two, where this pic is taken, they will be charging...  All one could do is retreat and hope!



Those bikes you see?  Yeah those are his Black Knights who just outflanked on me at the top of his second round.  Soooo....



To make things more fun...

In my turn two, the Obelisk mishap'd, while my second Monolith did also, so he planted the Monlith in my deployment zone of course and then the Obelisk had to go into ongoing reserve.  More good news?  For my bottom on 2, I shot him 70 times plus nine Staff of Light shots, plus the Monolith fired and killed one Terminator.  The only good news was that the Monolith i dropped in his backfield blasted a Wyvern and the Immortals who emerged finished the second one.  Still.  Tough sledding.  

On turn three He annihilated the Monolith he so conveniently placed near his terminators in my Deployment zone, which was the main thing I had to hurt his bikes there.  Yup.

Despite, shall we say, the adversity I was able to claw my way back and win 7-6.  My MVP's were the Flayed Ones and the obelisk.  Despite its delay'd arrival it really did do work once it was on the board (killed a Chimera, a Platoon Commnd and finished the Black Knights).  The Flayed ones tilted the melee against the 4+ invul guardsman in my direction round after round.

ahh this was an azrael/guard list with him in a blob yes?

those can be brutal when played correctly especially when your opponent decides to roll 6's

Word. It Can and was brutal but fortunately to screw with my deep Strikes (which he succeeded in doing obviously) he had spread out and it made the combats rather brutal for him.

The finishing pics at the end of my game:


Panoramic View.  Deathwing to the fore facing Warriors, My Obelisk and Monolith to the center and the swirtling melee with Azrael and Ezekial in his deployment zone.



The aforementioned Swirling Melee with Immortals Necron Warriors and Flayed ones.  He ended the game with just one wound on each of his characters.



aaaaaaand...  Below we have the Two single Terminator  Sergeants duking it out we me.  Just couldn't kill em.  Also, Two lonely Terminators trying to get over there to help, had there been a round 7.

So what was your list in the end? And his was the bblob with allied SM termies?

He had Dark Angels with IG Allies i think.

My list was really simple

CAD 1:
2 Crypteks (one with a Solar Staff of super awesomeness and the Veil)
20 Warriors

CAD 2:
Cryptek
20 Warriors
8 Flayed Ones

Mephrit Resurgence Dynasty Formation
2 Monoliths
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
5 immortals
5 immortals

Living Tomb Formation:
Obelisk

EDIT'D

... Helloooooooooooo...

Sorry guys been really busy! But I'll chime in with some thoughts on Crons and my DE list I have been toying with.

So with Crons, I think the hardest part is actually choosing what you actually want to run! So many things look solid and fun to use for many different army compositions. However, I really think that the Decurion Detachment is the way to go because the bonuses it lends you makes your army nigh unkillable...Necrons will win a war of attrition if you let it. Luckily, poison helps us deal with some of these problems...but I think the main way we will have to deal with things is assault and sweep...its the best way you are going to clear blobs...pure and simple. If you are interested, my friend and I had a list idea that actually created a Necron assault oriented "deathstar" that was pretty funny to examine.


These days, I have been experimenting on how to take my list to 1850 and have decided on somethings. While Urien is great and super tough, he doesn't hit very hard. Thus I am going to run him as a plain haemonculus with a scissorhand...this also allows me to roll for other warlord traits out of the Coven book which could be satisfying. Also for the last 350+ points in going from 1500 to 1850 with the Urien change as well, I am looking at playing my razorwing with splinter cannon upgrade and 2x 6 reaver squads each with 2 caltrops. Of course this means I'm also changing to the realspace raiders detachment, which I think is solid still. CAD is becoming less of a big deal to me daily it seems. I recently tried reavers out and omg...so much fun. Rending HoW attacks are simply amazing (duh). 2+ jinks after turboboosting is awesome as well and super useful for surviving. The key to reavers is not to fall for the trap of grabbing additional shooting upgrades like lances...you WILL be jinking all the time and thus are probably going to miss the vast majority of the time...just not worth the points. Using the S6 caltrop attacks and even the S4 HoW attacks to hit light armor and harass other units in assault. These guys bring a lot of utility and I'm a big fan of 6 in a squad and how they balanced they are at this size.

I like realspace raiders BUT you are downplaying the importance of ObSec - it can be a game difference often enough to hurt you. And yes reavers are excellent but so are scourges and razorwings. That said  - go for it.

Now necrons - what a lot of nice units they have now ...
Flayed Ones - just wow. shred and rendiong and five attacks - and infiltrate. And they can be fit in as a detachment outside of the FoC.
Tomb Blades - Boy are these guys nice in larger squads.
Wraiths - No need to go here - we know how good these guys are.
Obelisk - Another unit easily slotted in any list that makes your AA a lot easier.

J's list above is actually quite clever and easily mistaken as weak. I mean no command barges. No ghost arks or night scyhtes. No Nemesor. Just crypteks and warriors porting through monoliths. And yet he won ...

ObSec certainly is powerful but that also depends a lot on mission type as well. Ultimately its weighting the pros and cons for each force. My problems is that i want to use 5 FA choices without taking more troops for a second cad (not to mention im already at my self impossed 2 detachment limit). DE need to survive T1 and realspace helps a lot with this!

As for necrons, consider this: Orikan, Vargard, Overlord with staff of light and lychguard with shields....absolutely brutal. Its a deathstar type unit that can deepstrike big and take a turn of fire with the staff of light and amazing saves (a rerollable 3++ AND then a WBB roll...these guys get nice boosts that will do well to rip a lot of stuff to shreds.

Throw in the rest of the reclamation legion with 40 warriors (1 blob and 2 10 man in arks) makes for a solid set of units to back that up. Oh wait it gets better we still have points for the canoptek harvest with 6 wraiths! So many solid threats in a fun assault deathstar (is that even possible for crons haha) with solid support and distractions.

So a proposed Necron list by J as per chat discussion ...

CAD
Destroyer Lord (Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Gauntlet of the Conflagrator)
2x 10 Warriors
3 Tomb Blades (1x Nebuloscope and 2 Shadowlooms - sits on quad)
2x 10 Triarch Praetorians (rod of covenant)
2x  Night Scythe
Fortification:  Aegis Defense Line (Quad Gun)

Living Tomb:
1 Obelisk
1 Monolith

- Suggested changes
add 8 Flayed Ones  Formation
drop 4 Praetorians



Obelisk:
BS4, AV14 all around, HP6
Super-heavy skimmer - targets different units and is 6+ IWND
Four Tesla Spheres: 24", S7 AP-, Heavy 5
Terrain within 18" is dangerous terrain, even for FMCs and Flyers that don't usually take DT tests.
An Obelisk can come into play as "powered down", in which case it has 3++, and cannot move or shoot. During the movement phase it can power up, and once powered up it cannot power down again.
An Obelisk entering from deep strike is always powered up.
                                                                                       

Living Tomb forces you to DS the Obelisk

Living Tomb:
Special Rules: Formation must be placed in Deep Strike reserve. Do not make reserve rlls fr the Obelisk, it automatically arrives on your turn 2. Monoliths do not scatter when deep striking if placed within 12″ of the Obelisk.
Immediately after a Monoloths arrives frm this formation, choose one friendly Cron unit nthat is entirely infantry or jump infantry that is in reserve. Place it as though disembarking from the Monolith's eternity gate.

Praetorians cna take a rod which is AP2 or they can take voidblades/particle casters. AP2 is nice but particle casters nd voidblades will do some damage. They also get a DT in a Night Scythe. This however means that the NS is not ObSec if taken as their transport.

So how do we deploy? We can move through the Monlolith from reserve. We can DS praetorians and d-lord. We can start on the board. Lots of options.  How do we arm the Praetorians? Well, J suggests just keep ther rods.

Suggested changes - I would lower the praetorian squads to eight each and add a squad of flayed ones ( eight) to apply more early pressure. Also the D-lord can then if he likes detach and join the flayed ones.