Dark Eldar Rules Re-Write, Age of Sigmar-style

Hi all, PainReaver here, you may know me as the guy who post a lot of lists and keep changing them every now and then.

I've been really following Age of Sigmar release, and when I took a look at the Warscroll compendium, I was simply hooked, and desperately wanted them for 40k use, as I feel they are far more simpler, and represent far greater options for budding archons and dracons out there (and conversely for all the Captains, the Warbosses, the Autarchs out there).

So over the next couple of days, I am going to exhaustively do a compendium for the Dark Kin (and feel free to join me), for every unit, Kabal, Wych and Coven, and make them all into the great glass cannons they should have been.

Rules will be written first for Heroes- the Archons, Succubus and Haemonculi. These three will form the base from which your raiding party will be based around.

Then after we will work with the units next- Kabal, Wych, Coven and then Others (Incubi and Mandrakes) in that order. Then last, is the special characters, because I'm not very fond of them, but some of you probably are. And no, Sliscus, Baron, Vect, Malys and the Decapitator isn't coming back.

We will also then need to work on Feast of Pain rules (PfP), Combat Drugs, and Freakish Spectacle (Jimsolo, can we have you here?)

For those keen to join, please do get a read up on the Warscroll Compendium (and the 4 pages of Rules) to get a rough idea of what the hypothetical DE rules will look like. The Dark Elf compendium is a very good starting point.

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DESIGN PHILOSOPHY

The Dark Eldar book will be divided into three design philosophies.

KABAL units slay the enemy from afar, using speed and pinpoint accuracy rather than brute force, and seek to kill the enemy, and survive to feast upon the horrific pain they visit upon their victims. To this end, they field packs of airborne Raiders and Venoms transporting the vicious Kabalite Warriors, who unload deadly fusillades of poison through their splinter weaponry. These bloodthirsty killers are supported by Kabalite Trueborn, who go into battle with highly lethal darklight weaponry, or with the devastating monofilament shredders, or unleash deadly torrents of splinter fire. To compound the sheer ferocity and alacrity of the Kabal, Scourges circle above, ready to cut down any stragglers with their specialised weaponry, whilst Ravagers zip around the battlefield, destroying vehicles and large beasts alike in one fell swoop. And when the Kabal is lead by its Archon, usually accompanied with an entourage from his Court, the Kabal fights all the more ferociously, with each of them striving to prove their abilities in front of their master.

The WYCH cults, on the other hand, prefer to meet the enemy face to face, to better savour the pain and horror they inflict, and to test their skills against the galaxy's mightiest denizens. Realspace raids by these cults are usually led by the Succubus, accompanied by a coterie of her deadliest Bloodbrides, who are the most beautiful and experienced members of their cult. Behind them, swarms of Raiders and Venoms carrying Wyches join into the fray, seeking to prove their ability, as well as hoping to earn the favour of their mistress. And with the slaughter that the Cults provide, other fighters provide their specialist and exotic skills in battle. The Reavers of the toroid arenas join the battle at high velocity, cutting down swathes of the enemy in a single pass, in the same fashion they dispose of their fellow competitors. From the slums of Lower Comorragh, come the Hellions, who ride screaming into battle, swinging their feared hellglaives. Male Wyches known as Beastmasters, drive onwards fiendish beasts like the Donorian Clawed Fiend, flocks of Razorwings, and even the Warp beasts known as Khymerae. Even the skies bleed, with Razorwing Fighters and Voidraven Bombers raining destruction from above.

As terrifying as a Kabal and a Wych Cult are on the battlefield, a Haemonculi COVEN will strike fear even in the most fearless warriors. Utterly grotesque and unsettling in physique, they stride into battlefield without any sense of fear, long having such base emotions tortured out of them, whilst their bulging and heaving muscles shake off wounds that would have obliterated lesser mortals. A haunting cavalcade of Grotesques and Wracks march onto the battle, directed by a Haemonculus like a maestro of a terrifying orchestra. Circling menacingly above, are the Pain Engines- the Talos, a machine designed with nothing more than the goal of inflicting the greatest amount of carnage, and the Cronos, a machine designed to rejuvenate and drive their fellow Covenites into ever-higher levels of barbaric frenzy. As the battle goes on and on, the visage of these seemingly unkillable warriors soon drive lesser mortals mad, and begging for the sweet release of death, a release that the Haemonculi are slow to give.

The shrines of warriors known as the Incubi, are often seen in many a realspace raid. These silent and agile murderers effortlessly slaughter in but a single swing, using their efficiently balanced klaives. And it is said in Aelindrach, shadows of Mandrakes seem ill at ease...

***

So what say you?

Moderators- can I be allowed to reserve some extra post spots so a full 'codex' could be put up.

Sounds fun

General summary of the idealized playstyles

Kabal (or Poison and Lances)

+ Can rack up large amounts of wounds and damage from a safe distance
+ Fully maximizes speed and positioning
+ Units are very customisable, and tailored to your playstyle
+ Wide range of AV options
- As hard as wet tissue
- Very reliant on dedicated cardboard boxes
- Fight poorly in CC, low Bravery (except Archons)

Wych (Take them out of the shelf now)

+ Synergises PfP and Combat Drugs
+ Succubus and her deadly Bloodbrides take up only one scroll
+ Very tough to take out in Close Combat (6+ normal save, 4+ cc save for wyches, 3+ for bb).
+ Lots of options and builds to play with
- Hilariously vulnerable to ranged fire
- Have to stick in a bubble around the Succubus to get maximum damage
- The loss of your succubus will destroy this army
- Gets better with numbers, but likelier to be playing against Sudden Death

Coven (Jimsolo, Mushkilla)

+ Regeneration of wounds everywhere, coupled with high saves
+ Fear bubbles (stack up to -3 Bravery penalty for battleshock tests)
+ High Bravery all round
+ Brutal in CC
+ Lots of access to wargear and artefacts simultaneously
+ List can be strong in small numbers, increasing your likelihood of playing for Sudden Death
- No dedicated transports
- Limited Range support, low accuracy
+/- Very limited build options

Sounds like an interesting idea. I look forward to seeing how it progresses.

Quote :

Moderators- can I be allowed to reserve some extra post spots so a full 'codex' could be put up.

Feel free. Make a new post and say what you are reserving the post for in the future.

Post Reserved for KABAL units. (Updated 21/7)

Archon

Move 6", Wounds 5, Save 4+, Bravery 9

Archon's Venom
Move 18", Wounds 6, Save 4+, Bravery -

Parasite's Kiss- 12", 3 A, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, -1 to rend, 1 Damage
Huskblade- 1", 4 A, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, -1 to rend, D3 Damage

May take a Clone Field or a Shadow Field, and take a Webway Portal or a Venom

Shadow Field: 3+ save, re-rolls 1 and 2s
Clone Field: Ignores mortal wounds on a roll of 4+

Parasite's Kiss: Whenever attacks with the Parasite's Kiss scores an unsaved wound, the Archon gains 1 wound back. This may not exceed the original number of wounds.

Huskblade: On any to wound rolls of 6, it is counted as a Mortal Wound and does 3 damage.

Armor of Misery: Enemy units within 3" of the Archon have -1 to their bravery

Webway Portal: If the Archon takes a Webway Portal, he may arrive via Deep Strike. Another unit from your army may also arrive with him. If he, and the unit arrives in this manner, they count as having moved, and thus may charge in the same turn.

Abilities:

Labyrinthe Cunning: You may re-roll the dice for any Priority rolls and Reserve rolls.

Command Ability:

Fear and Terror: May be activated in your hero phase and lasts until the end of the game turn. Allied units within 14" of the Archon do not take Battleshock tests at all. Enemy units within 14" have a -2 modifier to their Bravery (Stacks with Armor of Misery)

Post Reserved for WYCH units.

Post Reserved for COVEN units.

I salute your efforts and wish you all the best. That said I hate to see the AoS initiative GW has taken build any momentum for fear they may choose to crush 40k with it ala.. Age of Calgar!

I'd personally rather see a community supported Errata [based off our previous book] that could then be submitted to GW.

PainReaver wrote:

I've been really following Age of Sigmar release, and when I took a look at the Warscroll compendium, I was simply hooked, and desperately wanted them for 40k use, as I feel they are far more simpler, and represent far greater options for budding archons and dracons out there (and conversely for all the Captains, the Warbosses, the Autarchs out there).

I'm genuinely confused by what you mean by "greater options."

There are definitely not more options; there's no wargear, upgrades, relics, etc. Since all Archons would be identical copies of each other, as well as Haemonculi and Succubi (and Captains, Warbosses, Autarchs, etc), that's pretty clearly less options.

Do you mean "better options?" I'm not sure by what standard things are better in Age of Sigmar, since as I understand it, you can take unlimited numbers of any of them.

Of course, if "greater options" just means that you like it and think some other people would too, despite not having anything to do with options per se, then that's totally valid and more power to you.

Calyptra wrote:

PainReaver wrote:

I've been really following Age of Sigmar release, and when I took a look at the Warscroll compendium, I was simply hooked, and desperately wanted them for 40k use, as I feel they are far more simpler, and represent far greater options for budding archons and dracons out there (and conversely for all the Captains, the Warbosses, the Autarchs out there).

I'm genuinely confused by what you mean by "greater options."

There are definitely not more options; there's no wargear, upgrades, relics, etc. Since all Archons would be identical copies of each other, as well as Haemonculi and Succubi (and Captains, Warbosses, Autarchs, etc), that's pretty clearly less options.

Do you mean "better options?" I'm not sure by what standard things are better in Age of Sigmar, since as I understand it, you can take unlimited numbers of any of them.

Of course, if "greater options" just means that you like it and think some other people would too, despite not having anything to do with options per se, then that's totally valid and more power to you.

Please re-read Age of Sigmar warscrolls.

Also by using Age of Sigmar style rules, we can choose that really situational wargear- situational, but really good when that situation happens, that we normally don't take because of arbitrary point limits.

Point limits are arbitrary because.

Kabalite 1: You know what would look good in this raider? A set of fudgin' Shock Prows.
Kabalite 2: Fudge off mate, I'd love but I can't because apparently we have to fight equally with the enemy.

PainReaver wrote:

Please re-read Age of Sigmar warscrolls.

Ok.

Please tell me if I'm missing something here.

Vampire Lords now all have the same equipment and know the same spells. (Not sure where my Necrarch is keeping that spirit-possessed sword that they apparently hand out to all the Vampire Lords, but ok.) They can fly or ride a Nightmare if they like. If you have a Vampire on a Hellsteed (a winged Nightmare), maybe it counts as both?

My Vampires who were not Vampire Lords have apparently been promoted, and my Vampire Battle Standard Bearer has some explaining to do.

There is a separate warscroll for Vampire Lords on Abyssal Terrors. They get to choose between a sword and a lance.

The Zombie Dragon can be upgraded to have a Vampire Lord rider. He can choose between a sword and a lance, can have a shield, and may have a chalice, making him the most versatile Vampire left in existence.

Necromancers are now all identical except that some may ride Nightmares. They are no longer permitted to sit on the Corpse Cart, and my Master Necromancer has been demoted.

Wight Kings may carry the flag, and may ride a Nightmare.

Ghoul Kings are all identical, though they can ride a Terrorgheist.

So that's no more Vampiric Powers (and therefore no more ways to represent Necrarchs or Lahmians who aren't on a Coven Throne), no more magic items, Vampires are no longer allowed on Coven Thrones or (I guess?) Hellsteeds, and the Blood Dragon Vampire on a Nightmare leading the Blood Knight charge is no longer permitted to use his lance. Or shield. Or paired weapons, if he had those instead. Necromancers may no longer ride Abyssal Terrors or Corpse Carts. Wight Kings misplaced their lances and great weapons.

That's what I got out of rereading the battlescrolls, but I haven't studied them or the four pages of rules closely, so maybe I'm missing something.

It really seems like a whole lot less options.

I don't want this for my Vampire Lord or my Archon.

The options remaining are all based on the most recent model kits, so an Age of Sigmar-ified Archon would only be allowed to have a splinter pistol and huskblade.

As long as "Age of Sigmar" rules means "Not age of sigmar" rules, then cool.

Don't give GW an excuse to dumb down 40k as well.

I don't get all this 'I want to create new rules' stuff? You can create as much rules as you want, it won't change anything. Why not concentrating on getting better with current rules and create fluff? Something unique?

I agree to a certain extent but there is always a possibility that GW may actually visit the Dark City and see some of the suggested rules and take notice.

Calyptra is right.
By comparision to both 40k and 8th edition Warhammer ruels, Age of Sigmar offers VERY little by way of options for customizing units. Even looking at the new armies, their potential for adding new options is close to zero. We have far more flexibility in the current 40k rules set, and I have to agree that a community FAQ for that would be far more useful than trying to cram our rules into AoS style thinking, ESPECIALLY is that encourages AoS.

CptMetal wrote:

I don't get all this 'I want to create new rules' stuff? You can create as much rules as you want, it won't change anything. Why not concentrating on getting better with current rules and create fluff? Something unique?

First of all, let's not stifle creativity! It used to be an essential part of gaming. The designers (well, the old ones) always said that the rules were only there for you to adjust as you saw fit. That's how *they* play, to this day. I was reading an interview with Rick Priestley about how they came up with Hail Caesar! and, apparently, they were playing at the Perry's and Jervis said, 'let's use the Warmaster rules.' Then they went, 'okay, but let's change this.' And then, 'let's add this', and 'how about if...' and so on.

Secondly, a warscroll for an Archon, AoS-style, might say, 'an Archon's ranged weapon is either a blast pistol or a blaster, and their close-combat weapon is either a Huskblade or an Agoniser.' How is that different from the options we have now? The only other options are, 'or you could take something less good to save on points', but if points weren't an issue, you wouldn't!

Looking at the Aos Warscrolls Agatha, those weapon options would be it. They don't give much room for anything else like Wargear. Those are the options we'd be losing.

Squidmaster wrote:

Looking at the Aos Warscrolls Agatha, those weapon options would be it. They don't give much room for anything else like Wargear. Those are the options we'd be losing.

Nonsense! The only options in the Wargear list are whether to take a clone field or a shadow field, and it's always going to be a shadow field, isn't it! The Archon would simply come equipped with soul-trap, phantasm grenades, haywire grenades, and a webway portal, because if points weren't an issue why would you not take any of them?

Or to put it another way, would you miss the option to take an Archon without a Webway Portal? And why?

I would love a Codex that let you customise your Archon, but that isn't what we have now. What we have are limits: the only reason for not equipping your Archon with everything is that it costs too many points for what it does. If points weren't an issue, you'd just add everything.

Barking Agatha wrote:

Squidmaster wrote:

Looking at the Aos Warscrolls Agatha, those weapon options would be it. They don't give much room for anything else like Wargear. Those are the options we'd be losing.

Nonsense! The only options in the Wargear list are whether to take a clone field or a shadow field, and it's always going to be a shadow field, isn't it! The Archon would simply come equipped with soul-trap, phantasm grenades, haywire grenades, and a webway portal, because if points weren't an issue why would you not take any of them?

Or to put it another way, would you miss the option to take an Archon without a Webway Portal? And why?

I would love a Codex that let you customise your Archon, but that isn't what we have now. What we have are limits: the only reason for not equipping your Archon with everything is that it costs too many points for what it does. If points weren't an issue, you'd just add everything.

...this is exactly what we have now...

So far as I can tell, Age of Sigmar doesn't allow options that aren't on the model or sprue, so you'd be stuck with splinter pistol and huskblade. No blasters, no blast pistols, no agonizers. Artefacts of Cruelty would be gone, as well as the wargear lists. The Archon would probably come stock with a shadowfield and have an option for a webway portal. And that's it.

That's what they did to the Vampire Lord, only they took away a whole lot more.

If someone can find an Age of Sigmar warscroll that allows weapon options for a hero that aren't on the model or sprue, I'd like to know about it. I certainly haven't looked at all of them yet.

Calyptra wrote:

So far as I can tell, Age of Sigmar doesn't allow options that aren't on the model or sprue, so you'd be stuck with splinter pistol and huskblade. No blasters, no blast pistols, no agonizers. Artefacts of Cruelty would be gone, as well as the wargear lists. The Archon would probably come stock with a shadowfield and have an option for a webway portal. And that's it.

That's what they did to the Vampire Lord, only they took away a whole lot more.

If someone can find an Age of Sigmar warscroll that allows weapon options for a hero that aren't on the model or sprue, I'd like to know about it. I certainly haven't looked at all of them yet.

Sometimes you can choose whether to use a spear or a sword. Maybe a great weapon if you're lucky.
If they make AoS type rules for 40k, I'm out. Like... forever. I'll sell my models and give myself ~20 hours a week back to spend on music.

I'm of a similar mind as nexs. I have other hobbies such as my fire-arms that I could use the money I spend on Warhammer 40k to do. I have not been impressed with what I've seen for Age of Sigmar.

My dwarves are in the same boat. If I want a runelord, at the back of the army book, its says treat as King Thorek.... where is the individuality and customization in that. So all my runelords are Thoreks?

Calyptra wrote:

So far as I can tell, Age of Sigmar doesn't allow options that aren't on the model or sprue, so you'd be stuck with splinter pistol and huskblade. No blasters, no blast pistols, no agonizers. Artefacts of Cruelty would be gone, as well as the wargear lists. The Archon would probably come stock with a shadowfield and have an option for a webway portal. And that's it.

That's what they did to the Vampire Lord, only they took away a whole lot more.

If someone can find an Age of Sigmar warscroll that allows weapon options for a hero that aren't on the model or sprue, I'd like to know about it. I certainly haven't looked at all of them yet.

So it's a Parasite's Kiss, A Huskblade, and a Clone Field/Shadow Field base then. Not all bad.

PainReaver wrote:

So it's a Parasite's Kiss, A Huskblade, and a Clone Field/Shadow Field base then. Not all bad.

That's subjective, especially without points, but it's definitely not "greater options."

It would also leave a lot of Dark Eldar players with models they can't use in the new, fewer options game, just like Age of Sigmar has done to Fantasy players.

Whether or not you consider fewer options and models you can't use in the new game a bad thing is up to you.