1750 tourny list Caledonian Uprising 2012 - Jan 21/22

Ok I'm after experiance and advice on the following list. I have not played tourneys before - so no experiance at all the power lists.

I cant do a power list due to my available collection, plus I find lots of the same thing dull. I'm not that bothered about winning - although I dont want my arse handed me.

So this is a rough list of where I am so far; It is mostly using the stuff I've only just bought/like the look of and /or works at home.


Archon - huskblade, drugs, shadow field, haywire grenade, soul trap
Heamonculi - shatter shard, venom blade

Trueborn - 5 with 2 dark lances
4 incubi in venom with extra splinter cannnon

5 wracks - a liquifier and an acothyst with hex rifle
10 warriors - Splinter cannon and shredder
5 warriors - Blaster and Raider
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with agoniser PGL all with haywire grenades in raider with lance
9 wyches - Hekatrix with power weapon all with haywire grenades in raider with Dissie

5 Hellions - helliarch with agoniser
5 Scorges - solarite with agoniser 1 haywire blaster, 1 heat lance

Razorwing - dark lances, standard missiles, splinter cannon, flickerfield, night shield
Ravager - Night shield



I do like the Cronos - but cant fit him in. Which is too bad - but I dont have the new model anyway, and the old metal one is too fragile.

I dont own any more tranaports than what I've listed (3 raiders and a venom) so cant increase that
I like wyches, and struggle to use warriors - so they will hold objectives.
Wracks I've only just bought - so no idea what they are like.


As for tactics? No idea really - I normally make the up when I see the tble and mission. I am worried about how many transports lists seem to take these days. I am used to using and playing against infantry lists.

By the way - this is the tournament

Caledonian Uprising 2012 - Jan 21/22 - RULESPACK RELEASED!

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=91729

Okay...well, you're certainly listing a lot of concerns and issues. I'm going to go over your list with a gentle hand, and try to keep your limitations in mind. Afterwards I'll discuss some overarching tactic ideas that might help.

shadow hunter wrote:

Archon - huskblade, drugs, shadow field, haywire grenade, soul trap
Heamonculi - shatter shard, venom blade

Is the point of the Haywire grenade just "in case" a Walker assaults your Incubi unit? Meh...we'll see.
Haemon is okay, though you really don't need that Venom Blade if he's with the Wyches he should be staying in the transport and using the best flamer in the game as much as possible. If he's with the Wracks...well, I'll probably try to sell you on dropping the Wracks.

Quote :

Trueborn - 5 with 2 dark lances
4 incubi in venom with extra splinter cannnon

Trueborn are a good option for a man lacking vehicles - I approve.
Incubi are fine.

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5 wracks - a liquifier and an acothyst with hex rifle

The hex rifle is a pretty substandard piece of equipment. I would drop it. Frankly I think the whole unit is a problem for you. They're small, and they're walking - in a Venom they could be pretty nasty, as stands they have questionable use to the army. If they sit and hold an objective there's no need for the liquifier, and if you walk them forward they're small and easily shot apart.

If you need a home base objective holder I'd suggest just getting a squad of 3 Wracks and keeping them in reserve. With T4 and FNP and (hopefully) cover, they can still behard to dislodge, but will save you a lot of points.

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10 warriors - Splinter cannon and shredder

Frankly, I'd make these guys have a Dark Lance and let them be the home objective squatter. You could use the anti-tank firepower, and they'd be overall more useful while sitting back and holding something.

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5 warriors - Blaster and Raider

I like this build, keep in mind you could do some different things, like put these guys in the Venom, and put the Archon, Incubi, and a Haemon in the Raider so your deathstar gets FNP to start, which can be nice.

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9 Wyches - Hekatrix with agoniser PGL all with haywire grenades in raider with lance
9 wyches - Hekatrix with power weapon all with haywire grenades in raider with Dissie

Kind of dislike these. Here's a few thoughts to tighten it up;

1. I'd leave the Raider a lance - the Wyches are anti-infantry, let the boat be anti-mech.
2. The PGL is almost useless on Wyches (how badly do you really need defensive grenades, seriously?) I'd drop it.
3. Saved points from that easily nets you an Aggie for the other Wyches, which is nice, and you still have some saved points that put you most of the way to getting some FFs on those Raiders.

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5 Hellions - helliarch with agoniser

Seriously, do you have any other models? These guys will not really accomplish anything. Another 10 man Warrior squad with Lance will barely cost more and will probably be overall more survivable and useful.

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5 Scorges - solarite with agoniser 1 haywire blaster, 1 heat lance

I'd drop the solarite and agoniser - this squad doesn't want to assault, and if they ever are assaulted they're dead meat, so save the points. I don't see much value in mixing weapons and would just take 2 haywires or two heat lances depending on what you think is best (I prefer haywires but many love HLs) The freed points here should easily see to finishing getting FFs on your vehicles.

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Razorwing - dark lances, standard missiles, splinter cannon, flickerfield, night shield
Ravager - Night shield

I like both of these - personally I'd run FFs instead of NSs on the Ravager - you can take all my FF advice above and consider it NSs if you think NSs are better than FFs.
Depending how many lances you were able to work in you might wish to go Dissies on the the Razorwing.

For a winning strategy I see a couple of options before you.

If you (can?) follow my advice you should have a couple of sniper squads with Lances that you can setup on your side, plus the Ravager, and plus some solid assault options. There are quite a lot of armies you're already going to be outshooting at this stage. The few that are probably still more shooty than you (IG, Tau...maybe Wolves) you can out assault. This is known as win.

The Razorwing deserves consideration - if you have first turn and the enemy already has a viable infantry squad on the table (something really worth killing, like Long Fangs, big mobs of Lootas, a huge mass of assault troops who are footslogging, ect, ect) then your opening gambit should be the Razorwing unleashing 2+ of its missiles (I always shoot all 4 as soon as possible, since I think if anything bad happens to the Razorwing while it still has even one missile on it then I probably should have just bought a Ravager with Dissies). This should pretty much sweep whatever you shoot, and freak out the enemy.

If the enemy is all meched up (and sometimes if you have second turn - depends on table setup) the Razorwing should probably be held in reserve, that way it can fly on Turn 2+ and unleash hell on some poor infantry blob that was popped out of its transport.

Your lances should focus on popping transports and stun/shaking shooting vehicles.

At least one of your Wych squads should always be looking to manage a first turn assault - either against some vehicles, or a dumb infantry squad that is too close (just be mindful of what you assault - you'd want to soften up a 30 man blob a bit before you assault it, natch) Hunting Dreads and other Walkers is also a not bad use for them, as they can lock up and murder these suckers pretty darn well.

Everything else should have its role and goal pretty well spoken for.

Hope that helps,
Thor.

Wow, some really useful advice thanks.

I can see the points you made very well. To defend some of my odd decisions - unfortunately I am a sucker for using the options in a box/blister. Hence the agoniser on a solarite, hex rifle on an acolyte etc.

I haven't ever used wracks yet - so no experiance with them. I am going to get some practise games in at a club once i've got a rough list sorted, to try out.

To be honest the Archon was gonna go with a squad of wyches.

I figured the incubi to be killy enough on there own - yet expendable at only 88pts. I was figuring opponents might get suckered into their elite super killy nature and spend a lot of time/points on removing them.

I am lacking more dark lances - hence the 10man warrior squad having a splinter cannon. Although I am tempted to buy another box of warriors. Especially now I have some left over weapons from the Scorges.

Talking about the Scorges - i prefer the haywire blaster too - but again, the box only comes with one of each. Think I will try and re-arm the solarite somehow. You are right, taking the agoniser off frees up a lot of points.

The Hellions actually did really well the game i used them killing an inquisitor and retinue. I figured they could deny objectives late on being fast and are quite shooty. Also, a back up if wyches etc need extra attacks.

Talking about wyches - I will take off the PGL. You are right there too. Its a shame as the item looks great on the model.

The razor wing i wasn't sure on load out (which is why i haven't glued the weapons yet.) I thought that it could do a little of both. 2 Dark Lances to take care of vehicles, and 4 missiles and splinter cannon to take care of infantry. Dissies better idea?

I will have another play at the list taking in your suggestions and tweak it for more input. I am hoping to get a game in this tuesday at latest and test things.

HQ
Archon - Shadowfield, huskblade, Soultrap, Drugs, haywire grenade = 150

Haemonculi - Shattershard, venom weapon = 70
(or option Succubus - Agoniser = 85)

ELITE

5 x Trueborn - 2 Dark Lances = 110
4 x Incubi - Venom, extra cannon = 153

TROOPS
10 x warriors - blaster, Dark Lance = 130
5 x warriors - blaster, Raider with DL = 120
9 x wyches - Hekatrix, Agoniser, haywire grenades, raider Dark Lance = 198
9 x wyches - Hekatrix, powerweapon, haywire grenades, Raider DL = 188
5 x wracks - liquifier (maybe elite if succubus taken) = 60

FAST ATTACK
5 scorges - haywire blaster, heat lance = 132
5 hellions - Helliarch, agoniser = 110

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager - 3 DL = 105
Razorwing - 2 x DL, standard missiles, splinter cannon, FF, NS = 175


That leaves 49pts if Heamonculi taken, or 34 if Succubus taken.

I could take out Wracks - then squeeze in another Ravager (but would need to buy one) or Cronos/talos

Or the spare points can put shields on vehicles. Only I dont know which to take.

Night shields I'm not convinced about yet others say are great. FF, well mostly I'd be trying to keep my transports moving fast at first and get a 4+ save - or obscured. Until i get some practise games from other tournament players I can't tell.

I want to try out the hellions a little more. I saw them useful for grabbing objectives, or hunting devestator type units?

Incubi would be my anti terminator unit. Is it needed?

Also,

What are tournament rules like regarding WYSIWYG?

I.e. if I were to use a shredder as a blaster, or Splinter Cannon as Dark Lance.


What about if my Hekatrix is armed with a blast pistol - but I am only using it as a splinter pistol?

HQ
Archon - Shadowfield, agoniser, Drugs = 120

Succubus - Agoniser = 85

ELITE

5 x Trueborn - 2 Dark Lances = 110
5 x Trueborn - 3 blasters, Venom, extra cannon = 170

TROOPS
10 x warriors - shredder, Dark Lance = 120
5 x warriors - blaster, Raider with DL = 120
8 x wyches - Hekatrix, Agoniser, haywire grenades, raider Dark Lance = 189
8 x wyches - Hekatrix, powerweapon, haywire grenades, Raider DL = 179


FAST ATTACK
5 scorges - 2x haywire blaster = 130
5 scorges - 2x heat lance = 134


HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager - 3 DL = 105
Razorwing - 2 x DL, standard missiles, splinter cannon, FF, NS = 175
Ravager - 3 DL or Dissie = 105


This is another option (although requires buying models) and comes in at 1744pts

hey im also taking my DE to the caledonian uprising and if u havent played tournaments before you need 3 things from DE

1 draw or beat IG
2 draw or beat GK
3 draw or beat SW

these three are our main power rivals and their is a gd chance ull see all of these so its a little late now but u need experience playing agaisnt these iv read your post and although you may not wanna win if u havent taken enough anti tank u will struggle and its not fun if the dice go against you as well

the problem i see with the current list is razorwing far 2 expensive they look gd but dont work i used 1 my self ravager with 3 DL is far better and cheaper

you also havent taken NS/FF on the ravagers this is bad bcoz these will do the most damage against vehicles and for every other army their a high priority target

i havent used scourges so i cant say yes or no but i would say 10 man with 4 haywire is better than 2 and heat lances are rubbish their only str6 so if ur not in 2d6 range u need to roll 6 so i dont take them for that reason

wyches are pretty gd id change the power weapon for an agoniser and add hydrra gauntlets

i dont like warriors lol the shredder i dont see much use to it and uv taken a DL which is a heavy weapon so if u move u cant fire it so that raider will be sat still so against nids keep it moving u wont be able to fire it but ull save the troop unit from being outflanked etc

elites i take 3 units of 4 trueborn with blasters in venoms and extra splinter canon then harass tanks with them cant beat them

i would also suggest since ur not using many transports make key units bigger and add heamonculus to them for FNP str8 away

hq i hve a succubus as well and i wud suggest a special character that will help ur army like malys or vect and iv played with vect hes amazing in combat with hot rolling hell 1 hit a trygon and take out most HQ's with ease and once he has FNP and furious charge hes unstopable

if u would like any more help PM me on here or join my dark eldar group on facebook