[2000] Dark Eldar Raiders of Realspace - Air Force

Hello, I'm new to Dark Eldar. This was the first list I came up with using the stuff I own.

I like to play to themes (essentially I pick something and build an army around it. In this case it was the flyers)

So for this particular list the flyers are essential, I want to build a list that compliments my airforce. I will post my inventory aswell if you have some suggestions please look at the inventory list because I will not be purchasing more dark elder. Converting possibly but not buying more stuff in the foreseeable future.

HQ
1x Succubus w/Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenade, Armour of Misery
1x Archon w/Blaster, Clone Field, Webway Portal, Archangel of Pain

Elites
5x Kabalite Trueborn w/Blaster (x4), Splinter Rifle (x1)
Raider w/Dark Lance, Night Shields

5x Kabalite Trueborn w/Blaster (x3), Splinter Cannon (x2)
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

5x Kabalite Trueborn w/Blaster (x3), Splinter Cannon (x2)
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

Troops
5x Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

5x Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

5x Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

Fast Attack

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Disintegrator (x2), Shatterfield Missile (x4), Night Shields

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Dark Lance (x2), Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Dark Lance (x2), Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Dark Lance (x2), Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

Heavy Support

Voidraven Bomber w/Night Shields


Dark Eldar Inventory
HQ

1x Converted Archon w/Blaster
1x Succubus w/Agoniser + Archaite Glaive
3x Haemonculus

TROOPS

36x Kabalite Warriors
45x Wyches

ELITES

10x Incubi
15x Trueborn
40x Wracks


TRANSPORTS

5x Venoms
6x Raiders

FAST ATTACK

10x Scourges
4x Razorwing Jetfighter


HEAVY SUPPORT
3x Ravagers
1x Talos
1x Voidbomber

Hello!

Welcome to the city, don't take candy from Haemys.

Anyway, as someone who enjoys running theme lists...I think that this is awesome.

HOWEVER, that being said, I do have some minor concerns.

First off, your fliers aren't coming in at first, so, we want to make sure that you aren't getting wiped before that.

You have six venoms, plenty of AT, splinter cannons out the butt...

I would condense down a HQ and use the final Fast attack slot to have some Reavers to give you survivable fast units you can run as interceptors and maybe even tie down some units in assault so your fliers can come in and lay waste.

Other than that, it looks splendid to me.

No reavers in my inventory

And yeah I am concerned about surviving until reserves arrive, any tips?

...Hum....

Other than buying reavers, I guess, I would maybe field some more infantry, maybe just a foot blob that will stay on the board.

Akaiyou wrote:

I like to play to themes (essentially I pick something and build an army around it. In this case it was the flyers)

So for this particular list the flyers are essential, I want to build a list that compliments my airforce.

That's all well and good, but your list so far lacks the backbone that enables the Fliers to prosper.

Korazell wrote:

First off, your fliers aren't coming in at first, so, we want to make sure that you aren't getting wiped before that.

This sums it up ^

There's a very real chance you will lose board control and most of any available objectives in the early game, and possibly get straight up tabled because more than half the army starts in reserve.

There's 2 ways for Dark Eldar to play with reserves in my eyes:

1) A select few highly accurate deepstrikers, which are reliable and focused - such as Trueborn and an Archon with a Webway Portal, or Razorwings to nuke infantry. This portion should rarely exceed 1/3 of your list because your standing forces just lose too much presence.

2) EVERYTHING IN RESERVE. Literally, your can put the entire army in reserve. There's 2 ways to pull it off. Either one or two fairly durable "anchor units" camping cover for the first turn, like Talos / Mandrakes, or by taking a Scalpel Squadron (2 Venoms with a unit of Wracks each) because they automatically enter play on your first turn.

As for the list itself,

Akaiyou wrote:

1x Succubus w/Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenade, Armour of Misery

This is one of the best loadouts for a Succubus, but she has no place in your list. No units you have wants to be committing to charges with her. If you had some Incubi or Grotesques in here, then she's your best pick

Akaiyou wrote:

1x Archon w/Blaster, Clone Field, Webway Portal, Archangel of Pain

Not a bad choice. Since he's coming in via Webway Portal, the Archangel is good, and it does have a lot of synergy with the Armour of Misery. I would recommend dropping both items, and the Succubus entirely, if you know you're up against Space Marines (And They Shall Know No Fear completely nullifies the both items)

Akaiyou wrote:

5x Kabalite Trueborn w/Blaster (x4), Splinter Rifle (x1)
Raider w/Dark Lance, Night Shields

No changes here; this is the perfect unit to deepstrike with the Webway Portal Archon.

Akaiyou wrote:

5x Kabalite Trueborn w/Blaster (x3), Splinter Cannon (x2)
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

5x Kabalite Trueborn w/Blaster (x3), Splinter Cannon (x2)
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

Mixing Splinter Cannons and Blasters on Trueborn is mediocre at best, and it's costly. Different preferred targets, different optimum ranges and different mobility. Drop your all 4 Splinter cannons here, and take another blaster in each unit. You should definitely consider swapping out one or both of these for Dark Lance Ravagers.

Akaiyou wrote:

5x Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

5x Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

5x Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/Splinter Cannon

Perfect. Cheap and cheerful with lots of mobility.

Akaiyou wrote:

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Disintegrator (x2), Shatterfield Missile (x4), Night Shields

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Dark Lance (x2), Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Dark Lance (x2), Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

Razorwing Jetfighter w/Dark Lance (x2), Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

This is really the heart and soul of your list. I would play 3 at most, because this way you can keep the list within a single Combined Arms Detachment.

3 Razorwings is still plenty, believe me, and you need some points on the ground to support them. Further to this point, I'd probably drop the Night Shields off all your fliers. It's not enough to save them and is costing you 60-85pts.

Akaiyou wrote:

Voidraven Bomber w/Night Shields

Well, if there's ever a list that would take a Voidraven, I suppose it's this one, since that's what the entire list is about. It's not exactly great, but it has it's place here, I guess. Make no mistake, the Razorwing's are better fliers (and cheaper).

My recommendations are that, even keeping within the confines of your theme, you're probably going to need to cut points. You are going to need to add units that give you some solid presence on the board from turn 1 and the ability to threaten vehicles.

Remove:
1 Razorwing, 1 Trueborn unit, all Splinter Cannons from infantry models, and maybe Night shields on the fliers. If you're up against Space Marines, drop the Succubus entirely, and the Archangel from the Archon.

Add:
Another Blaster to your remaining unit of Trueborn, 2 Ravagers.

Happy hunting.

Here is the way I look at it.

We can give advice, but, at the end of the day you need to figure out what you favor most.

Flavor VS stability in the list.

They both have their own merits. Stability wins more often and plays better in alot of cases.

However, flavor can also make victories mean more and make fun stories and even goofy saying that other players can hear about and want to experience, win or lose.

Figure that out, take all the advice given with some salt, and then take what YOU feel is right for you.

Advice is us trying to help. Take it or leave it isn't going to offend, at the end of the day this is about helping you.

If having 5 razorwings and 3 voidravens is your thing, make it so.

Just realize it might get shot down.

Korazell wrote:

We can give advice, but, at the end of the day you need to figure out what you favor most.

I agree. For themed lists, your composition needs to appeal to you as the player. Find the right balance and you'll have a very enjoyable gaming experience

Korazell wrote:

If having 5 razorwings and 3 voidravens is your thing, make it so.

You can actually put these 8 fliers into a list at 1500pts quite easily if you're feeling particularly goofy.
The game can and WILL devolve  (or evolve, depending how you look at it ) into a giant round of whack-a-mole:

How to lose friends in record time:

Honestly, the thought of all those fliers terrifies me.

However, I know someone less honorable than I would make a list to just counter it next time, the key is to avoid those people

I am in agreement with what you guys have stated, I do want to add a bit more background perhaps it can help steer the advice in the direction i would like.

There are certain guidelines I adhere to when list building.
1. Pick a theme and run it regardless of win or lose.
2. Use any and all units/models at my disposal (in my inventory) to give my chosen theme the best possible chance at being able to win games.
3. Stick to what I own or can easily convert. If I don't own it or can't convert it then suck it up and use the next best thing. Avoid proxying at all cost.
4. Don't worry about TAC. I enjoy fielding a wide variety of themes and most lists I play don't get played more than once before I decide to try out a diff theme/variant. So I'm completely ok with Gimmicky list that won't work all the time, I want to win but not planning on taking it to a tournament either.

Those are rules that I pretty much apply to every list i've ever made for 40k.

With those rules stated, looking over the advice given.
I absolutely do not want to break the theme. The theme here is to use ALL 5 flyers. Every single other thing in the list i am willing to adapt, remove or add things from the inventory i listed to get the most mileage out of the flyer spam.

I do not wish to ally with any codex more recent than the Dark Eldar codex. So no Autarchs or Eldar in any of my lists.

I AM actually listening and taking notes, do not think I'm here just to seek praise or adoration for my 'work of art' (list) I do want critique, ideas and even more important than any of that, strategies/tactics on how to play it so it WILL work.

My opponents are:

Imperial Guard - mostly infantry based, this friend really really likes guard infantry. Only 1 vendetta for air defense. He's recently getting back into 40k, after quitting prior to 5th ed. This means he missed out on Guard Leafblower and doesn't have any of the newer units except for the Vendetta which i sold him.

Tau Empire - also pretty infantry based, but with several vehicle options 3 hammerheads, devilfishes, and many crisis suits aswell as other infantry. He went big on tau during 5th edition, but hasn't invested since, so has none of the stuff that came with 6th edition (Riptides, flyers).

Space Marine/Imperial Guard - This guy on the other hand runs every dirty trick he can get his hands on. Imperial Knight, Shadowsword, Stormwing Formation, FW space marine flyers, skyhammer formation with grav cannons, centurions, drop pods, space marine bikes etc etc. He tends to be my toughest opponent, and mostly plays Space Marines Iron Hands every once in a while sprinkles some IG into it.


Currently SM player is remodeling his house so I'm mostly facing off against Astra Militarum and Tau which is why I decided to toss in the Archangel/Armour of Misery bomb of F U into my list.

Honestly...with those as your foes, those missles should clear out some dudes pretty handily...

Let's take a peek...

I'd drop the blasterborn and the archon or succubus.

I'd put in more venom with splinter cannons.

In fact, you could use a single Lhamean from the court hq option for super cheap and use the points you saved to make a fighter into an ace and just mention that your archon flies that one, make it stand out a bit. Like he's the leader of the sqaudron.

Doing that, you have wayyyy more options for more troops, which, from what you are fighting, I say drown them in splinters.

Using the advice already received in this thread I made the following changes using the inventory at my disposal let me know if you guys feel it's an improvement or detriment to the original list. 2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Eldar Roster - 2000 - RRD - Air Force Venoms

: Realspace Raiders Detachment (45#, 2000 pts)
1 Succubus, 110 pts (Archite Glaive; The Armour of Misery; Fear)

1 Archon, 135 pts (Plasma Grenades; Blaster; Webway Portal; The Archangel of Pain; Warlord)

5 Kabalite Trueborn, 190 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Blaster x4)
1 Raider (Dark Lance x1; Night Shields; Stealth)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Shatterfield Missile x4)
1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)
1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)
1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)
1 Voidraven Bomber, 160 pts

1 Ravager, 140 pts (Deep Strike; Dark Lance x3; Night Shields; Stealth)

1 Ravager, 140 pts (Deep Strike; Dark Lance x3; Night Shields; Stealth)

Total Roster Cost: 2000


Thoughts - Looking at it I feel that it looks more solid on the board, I want to keep the archangel/armour of misery bomb because I want to at least try it once against Astra Militarum infantry and Tau infantry and lolz as they flee off the board right into nice little meat cages i've prepared for the capture.

One thing I did notice is that in adding this many venom units, I have enough troops to field 2 CADs. Would you guys recommend I split them into 2 CADs? Or keep it as a Realspace Raiders force for the command benefit? What would help the flyer theme most?


Changes I made are as follows:

removed both trueborn units with splintercannons, added 2 ravagers.
removed all nightshields from flyers, haywire grenade from succubus, clone field from archon.
added more warriors in venoms.

So far, I like this the best.

I think it takes what you were aiming for and makes it more sturdy.

I agree looks more solid to me aswell but what do you think of the choice of fielding it as 2 CADs or keeping the RRD for the command benefit?

Take 2 CAD. At the end of game, what will give you the victory will probably be objective rush and stealing.

With those models, always 2 CADs if possible. Objective secured is a game winning special rule for DE. We don't have the most amazing formations/detachments on the kabal/cult side.

There are some other things I'd normally recommend, but you don't have the required models in your list.

What are they, just curious?

Ok I want to point out that there are certain benefits to the Raiders of Realspace that perhaps are being overlooked in favor of objectives secured.

RRD
Pros
- Re-roll to warlord trait. (giving me a better chance at that reroll reserves trait)
- Cover saves for my units that need to hold their ground until turn 2.

Cons
- No objectives secured


The way I see it, it comes down to either having a more reliable start, or a stronger finish. So for this particular air force based list is the stronger finish more important than increasing the staying power of units during turn 1 and 2.

I think we have alot of points we can score from crushing the enemy in certain ways. However, since those fliers are coming in late, we want to make sure we can position early to capitalize on them clearing out zones.

I think getting the jets onto the field the fastest would be the best way to go about this...at the same time, I think you'll want to make sure you can score on objectives.

I'd have to watch a playtest to get a really good idea.

Akaiyou wrote:

Pros
- Re-roll to warlord trait. (giving me a better chance at that reroll reserves trait)
- Cover saves for my units that need to hold their ground until turn 2.

Cons
- No objectives secured

Objective Secured is worth too much to pass up in my opinion.

It doesn't just help you 'finish strong' - if you're playing a close maelstrom game, and your card requires you to take an objective where a really tough unit is camping it. (let's say there's a Wraithknight or a squad of Paladins)

..Then Objec Secured, or lack thereof, can quite literally decide the game.

CADs also allow you to reroll your warlord trait, so literally the only thing you're getting is 1 turn of stealth, which you get from night fighting on 50% of games anyhow(and besides, all your troops are in transports - cover doesn't help them when their box explodes). The only reason to ever take the RSR detachment is to use the extra fast attack slots. If your local game rules allow you to get those slots from 2 CADs, it's always better.

Korazell wrote:

What are they, just curious?

If he had the models, I would have recommended that he run 1 CAD and 1 Realspace raiders detachment, adding 5 units of minimum sized beastmaster/khymera squads for 50 points, and a small fortification like an aegis defense line or the cheaper imperial one with a comms relay. This gives him 5 more units to absorb fire and keep him on the table long enough for the airforce to arrive, and the comms relay to ensure that the airforce does, in fact, arrive.

...THAT is some pretty good advice....

Future investment, for sure, if you wanted this to be consistent.

I have 3 aegis defense lines sets and a bastion. No beastmaster though...

Also taken from the collective advice of everyone here I put some work into converting some models based on some of the ideas i received, and made some pretty big changes to the list. Trying to incorporate as much advice as possible here is what I currently have. And i think this version should most definitely be able to hold it's ground until the air force arrives but what say you?

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Eldar Roster - 2000 - CAD + CAD - Air Force

: Combined Arms Detachment (26#, 905 pts)
0 Court of the Archon, 10 pts
1 Lhamaean

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Scourges, 120 pts (Fleet; Close Combat Weapon; Haywire Blaster x4)

5 Scourges, 120 pts (Fleet; Close Combat Weapon; Haywire Blaster x4)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Shatterfield Missile x4)

1 Voidraven Bomber, 160 pts

1 Talos, 135 pts (Chain-flails; TL Haywire Blaster)

: Combined Arms Detachment (24#, 1090 pts)
1 Archon, 75 pts (Plasma Grenades; Blaster; Warlord)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 105 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)

1 Ravager, 125 pts (Deep Strike; Dark Lance x3)

1 Ravager, 125 pts (Deep Strike; Dark Lance x3)


Total Roster Cost: 1995


As an alternate option I also have the following :

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Eldar Roster - 2000 - RRD - Air Force

: Realspace Raiders Detachment (58#, 1995 pts)
0 Court of the Archon, 10 pts
1 Lhamaean

5 Kabalite Trueborn, 180 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Blaster x4)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5 Kabalite Trueborn, 180 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Blaster x4)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)

10 Kabalite Warriors, 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Raider (Dark Lance x1; Splinter Racks)

10 Kabalite Warriors, 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Raider (Dark Lance x1; Splinter Racks)

10 Kabalite Warriors, 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Raider (Dark Lance x1; Splinter Racks)

5 Scourges, 120 pts (Fleet; Close Combat Weapon; Haywire Blaster x4)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Shatterfield Missile x4)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)

1 Razorwing Jetfighter, 150 pts (Dark Lance x2; Splinter Cannon x1)

1 Voidraven Bomber, 160 pts

1 Ravager, 140 pts (Deep Strike; Dark Lance x3; Night Shields; Stealth)

1 Ravager, 140 pts (Deep Strike; Dark Lance x3; Night Shields; Stealth)

Total Roster Cost: 1995


Thoughts?

I'd go with the first list, with only a couple minor adjustments:

Drop 1 unit of warriors and their transport.
Switch your 2 ravagers from dark lances to disintegrator cannons. You have lots of anti-vehicle. You could use more anti-elite infantry and triple dissie cannons gives you precisely that.

That leaves you 135 points. That's exactly enough for an aegis defense line, a comms relay, and a squad of 5 wracks with an Ossefactor. Post all 3 together on an objective in your deployment zone to get rerolls on the reserves rolls to make sure your planes arrive, and plan on going to ground any time something shoots at the wracks. It will make them T4 with a 2+ cover save and a 5+ feel no pain.

Dedicating so much of this list to air, you need to be pretty confident that air is coming on turn 2. This helps with that.

I'm pretty much in complete agreement with the above, I think it's a very solid list for what you are trying to do.