8e - The new stat-line

Tounguekutter wrote:

I wouldn't mind if Space Marines and Kabalites both move 6, so long as both are worth their points all things considered.  However, the athleticism aspect of our army flavor was mentioned in their new description on the website, so I'm hoping that things will be more like this:

Guardsman - 5
Marine - 6
Craftworld coward- 6
Kabalite - 7
Wych - 8

The taking turns in melee thing irks me as well, and I am afraid that is how things will be done because of how things are done in sigmar.  But who knows, maybe there will be something like a sweeping advance roll to determine who goes first each round using each side's movement characteristic.  Or even simply using the movement characteristic in place of initiative wouldn't be hard.  Unwieldy weapons debuff your characteristic when calculating when a model strikes.  But that's probably beyond GW's puny mon-keigh minds.  I remain overall optimistic but I reserve the right to gripe about the particulars.

Im seeing all DE 6" unless its beast/wings, Wyes and Mandrakes might be 7"

And I still waiting for key words to be reviled to see if there is first strikes, last strike etc...

If we have the same Mv as Marines and no mechanism to strike first then you can kiss goodbye to whatever pitiful remnant of melee capability we had left after the abomination that is our 7e codex.

I'm actually surprised that they cranked up Marine movement speed like that. I guess I thought they were done increasing Marine power levels with new editions.

Nevah!!

Right, Fleet and Drugs might give them some crazy edge, also we dont know the new melee weapon profiles yet either.

If Wyches got a -2 mod making SM 5+ save and we kept our 4++, getting dbl the attacks, a 10 size Wych unit would be scary. Given a Raider could have 15 Wounds and a save as well, it might be easier to get into melee than we think, but who knows

amishprn86 wrote:

Right, Fleet and Drugs might give them some crazy edge, also we dont know the new melee weapon profiles yet either.

If Wyches got a -2 mod making SM 5+ save and we kept our 4++, getting dbl the attacks, a 10 size Wych unit would be scary. Given a Raider could have 15 Wounds and a save as well, it might be easier to get into melee than we think, but who knows

I wouldn't expect a Raider to have more wounds than a dreadnought, so I'm going to guess that it's going to be somewhere in the 6-8 wound range.

krayd wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

Right, Fleet and Drugs might give them some crazy edge, also we dont know the new melee weapon profiles yet either.

If Wyches got a -2 mod making SM 5+ save and we kept our 4++, getting dbl the attacks, a 10 size Wych unit would be scary. Given a Raider could have 15 Wounds and a save as well, it might be easier to get into melee than we think, but who knows

I wouldn't expect a Raider to have more wounds than a dreadnought, so I'm going to guess that it's going to be somewhere in the 6-8 wound range.

I see Dreadnoughts has Higher Toughness (T7 already seen) with Less wounds and Raiders lower toughness (6) more Wounds, i can see a venom being 6-8 wounds.

Dreadnoughts where AV 12, now that they are T7 im guessing alot of things are getting tone down in Power Levels. SO this makes me think DE vehicles be at T6

No way - a raider will be lower T AND lower W than a dreadnaught - and rightly so in my mind

I am expecting T5/6 for our vehicles and 4-6 wounds for them depending on which one exactly we are talking about

Massaen wrote:

No way - a raider will be lower T AND lower W than a dreadnaught - and rightly so in my mind

I am expecting T5/6 for our vehicles and 4-6 wounds for them depending on which one exactly we are talking about

Im sure that no vehicles currently with 3 HPs with have less than 6, most likely 7+ b.c they dont want vehicles dying to a single shot weapon like a Melta, Lascannon etc...

Just speculations but we will see

And here's movement.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

So, basically, everyone has a pseudo hit and run.

I would expect us to have T6 vehicles as that seems representative of AV 10. I think having 6 Wounds is probably the spot for our Raiders and 4 or 5 for Venoms. Our vehicles already die in one shot to Lascannons and Meltas, that shouldnt change should it? I mean, I would love for them to be more durable, but I can't see it happening because they have never been that way. And think, with 6 Wounds, they actually are more survivable against those guns as they need a 6 to blow them on the damage rolle where as before they needed a 4+ or 5+. So it might actually help us!

I am very excited for the change. The ability to start fresh with all armies, all builds, all tactics, all units... everything. I think a blank slate is exactly what we needed as an army and as a game because I felt things were getting out of control and unmanageable. This way, everyone starts fresh and everyone is at square one.

I wonder how LD is going to work. Seeing it on a Dread wants me to believe it could only be a Walker thing, but how a LD stat interacts with vehicle could be interesting? Maybe they are taking the crewmen and the gunners into account for the LD stat? I am anxious to see what it means.

Logan Frost wrote:

And here's movement.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

So, basically, everyone has a pseudo hit and run.

I'm still unclear how well this is going to work out for dedicated assault units. I hope that they bring back the 3rd edition style sweeping advance, so that you can plow through one unit, and connect with another, which would force the second unit to either stand and fight, or fall back and forego shooting and charging.

I suspect that our hit and run units will be able to do a fallback move and still be able to shoot and charge.

This announcement hasn't really told us anything we didn't already know. They say movement will work much the same as 7th, but what about moving through difficult. If you take 2d6 and pick highest that means bikes and jetbikes get a nerf. same with "running". Looks like that 36" move our reavers could do is gone far out the window.
As logan frost says now everyone has pseudo hit and run, i would summise that those units with true hit and run can still act when they retreat from combat.

Logan Frost wrote:

And here's movement.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

So, basically, everyone has a pseudo hit and run.

Its not Hit and run, its a "anti-tarpit" option, and IMO its fine that its in there like this.

amishprn86 wrote:

Logan Frost wrote:

And here's movement.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

So, basically, everyone has a pseudo hit and run.

Its not Hit and run, its a "anti-tarpit" option, and IMO its fine that its in there like this.

In an edition that was supposed to make melee more useful that's a huge nerf to melee units. Especially those who, for example, are T3 with negligee armour.

krayd wrote:

I suspect that our hit and run units will be able to do a fallback move and still be able to shoot and charge.

That would be very good.
Having the possibility of a gunboat supported assault by fast moving hit and run units would be awesome.

I completely agree. I also think that what they will do with assaulting from vehicles is that it counts as a standard charge unless it is an assault vehicle. otherwise those armies that have open-topped (mainly DE and Orks) will be very angry as it completely changes the way they work

I'm not sure that it is going to make assault necessarily bad, it just seems to me that you are going to have to really devote yourself to assault against infantry heavy armies. While the support units will still be able to fire on your unit if the enemy disengages from the melee, if you devote enough assault infantry to strike all of their infantry line then the fallback doesn't mean much as they can't fire on your unit. We will have to see if overwatch is a thing of course and if so if it can be done by a unit that has disengaged from melee.

Maybe I'm not thinking deeply enough and I am missing something else.

Edit: I'm not taking into account target priority for one...

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

But the realist in me wouldn't be surprised to see wyches get the same move stat as space marines, because GW has historically been stupid, and that would be stupid. On top of that, the guys from frontline gaming were apparently involved in the discussion of formulating rules, and they're some space marine fanboys(despite Reece having his "Footdar" army). I don't think any of them are into DE either.

Fairly sure that Frankie one of the founding members plays Dark Eldar. Reece mentioned them as a spoiler army going into LVO one year.

Also we dont know all the rules

1) Can you run away if you are locked with 2 units?
2) Does the opponent get a +cover save mod or any other mods also
3) Do Is it a test that needs to past?
4) Can I test to stop it? or use command points

etc...

Anyone else noticed that little tidbit in there about the Harlequins? How they "leap and bound" over the battlefield ... That could point to the eldar in general having higher movement stats ... Unless they meant "leap and bound" relevant to a Terminator that I'm pretty sure has a 5" movement so we could expect Harlequins to get 8-10" movement which seeing as DE and Craftworld are just slightly slower would put them at about 7-9" movement without vehicles ... However we may be stuck with 6" movement all around and find that out vehicles because, fast, skimmer, open topped and possibly a return of Aireal​ assualt gives us 8-12" or more movement on top of what we walk so I honestly don't think our standard troops having the same movement as space Marines will be a hindrance so long as our vehicles can move a bit faster than others

You guys are so pessimistic. We're going to be shooting stars compared to marines.

I started playing Dark Eldar in 5th because (I thought) they were the fastest army out there - I really hope that is the case in 8th. I would love for Assault vehicles to still be a part of the game, and I would gladly exchange durability for speed: that's what I signed up for when I decided to play Dark Eldar.

So it's going to be hard not getting shot at in 8ed...

With any luck units won't be able to disengage if the model physically can't move out of combat, say because there is not a gap between enemies big enough to move its base. This would help big mobs of Orks, Nids etc overrun enemy units, and throw us a bone if we can achieve the same thing through manoeuvrability.

Could be rough when your combat units finally weather the storm of shooting only to get stranded in the open and killed, but I do like the way it encourages units to support each other. After all the retreating unit can't actually do anything, so if you can force a one-on-one situation you can just engage repeatedly. Definitely going to take some practice to get to grips with though.

What if you double down on cc units, charge everything in a coordinated attack, and have a shooting gallery next turn at everything that tried to run?