8e - Drukhari

I am not claiming "they will be super".
I´m just stating that I´m sick of doom saying.

Whatever. Enjoy your negativity.

CptMetal wrote:

I am not claiming "they will be super".
I´m just stating that I´m sick of doom saying.

Whatever. Enjoy your negativity.

My apologies. I forgot that expressing any sort of concern or negativity automatically cancels out any positivity you've shown.

I mean, if you just want me to just list some positives, I can do that:
- It looks like our transports will be more survivable.
- Transport explosions now apply to everyone and seem to hit other races harder than us.
- If splinter racks still exist, Gunboats could be pretty nasty. Especially if they can fire normally after the vehicle moves its full distance.
- Dark Lances and Disintegrators both look improved.
- If Blasters get the same rules as Dark Lances, Trueborn could also be good.
- The new AP rules mean I won't be annoyed by AP3 Agonisers and Huskblades anymore.

Incidentally, you know why I seem to fixate more on the negative than on the positive? Because there's more to talk about.

Not that there's necessarily more negative stuff than positive stuff, just that there really isn't much I can say about the positive stuff other than 'yeah, this looks good'.

Quote :

My apologies. I forgot that expressing any sort of concern or negativity automatically cancels out any positivity you've shown.

Welcome to my world.

I thought of a long reply, but...why bother?

CptMetal wrote:

You're assuming that witches won't be worth anything compared to Warriors.

That's the old warhammer, I hope that will change in the next edition.
And you're operating without any reliable information or at least not enough information.

Why do I say so?
Because the next edition isn't even out and I'm sick of all those doom sayers.

I fully agree with you.  

The main rules are changing a ton. As well as every army. We really have almost no inormation until we have ALL of the information.  So we really have nothing to compare wyches with, or anything for that matter.
Points, dark eldar special rules, wyches data slate, and 8th ed changes everything.  Any one of these things can make wyches great, good enough to take, or stay the steaming pike of crap that they are now? We really have no idea yet.  

All we kind of know is that assault seems more viable at the moment.
You don't have to take the closet model when taking casualties. Which help a ton against Overwatch. Making it much easier to engage your opponent. And you only have to get within 1" of your opponent when charging. That to me already seems to make wyches better.

I am so crazy excited for new evil space elf rules.

Maybe dark eldar will actually feel like the fastest army now?
Maybe dark eldar will feel a lot more like dark eldar should feel on the battle field?
Could kabalites come stock with splinter pistols?... Probably not, but one can hope.
Bolter no longer shredding or basic troops to mulch which will be really nice. We might even know what it feels like to have an actual armour save this edition?
Maybe I can run pure Coven or another pure theme somthing(all kabalites or arena fighters or all hellion gangs?) With out feeling like you are handicapping yourself?

We really won't know until we have actually play tested the game a lot. A lot of units can look great or like crap on paper, but on the battlefield they are the complete opposite. We shall see!

There is so much to look forwards too.
So why needlessly worry? Worrying and complaining without any real knowledge doesn't seem like it helps the Dark City community at all. In fact I feel it does the complete opposite. I am not saying anybody is wrong for worrying. I am just saying we don't know enough information to even worry at the moment.
It is not like Dark Eldar are going to get any worse right? Haha!

GW seems like they are getting their crap together. Which is a really good thing. STOKED!!!

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Points, dark eldar special rules, wyches data slates and 8th ed changes everything. Any one of these things can make wyches great, good enough to take just be crap. We really have no idea yet.

To play Devils advocate, we do already know a good chunk of the core rules (See latest leaks), and not a lot seems that favor our girls in their current playstyle, and a lot of what we've seen suggests that we'll just be maintaining the status quo.

However, I do agree with you. I would contend that it would be difficult to change something about Wyches that would not improve them in some way, shape, or form. I'll remain cautiously optimistic, but my salt mining pick isn't going back into the closet quite yet.

colinsherlow wrote:

GW seems like they are getting their crap together.

That statement would carry a lot more weight if GW hadn't already managed to mess up the wording of their rules.

As written, the Assault rule doesn't actually do anything.

TheBaconPope wrote:

Quote :

Points, dark eldar special rules, wyches data slates and 8th ed changes everything. Any one of these things can make wyches great, good enough to take just be crap. We really have no idea yet.

To play Devils advocate, we do already know a good chunk of the core rules (See latest leaks), and not a lot seems that favor our girls in their current playstyle, and a lot of what we've seen suggests that we'll just be maintaining the status quo.

However, I do agree with you. I would contend that it would be difficult to change something about Wyches that would  not improve them in some way, shape, or form. I'll remain cautiously optimistic, but my salt mining pick isn't going back into the closet quite yet.

Yeah we do have a good chunk of the rules, but we still only have a small part of the rules. One extra page that we do not have can change everything. And seeing the rules in their full context will help us a ton. Haha! But we really wont know until we try them out.
The part that does help the girls out a lot is that we do get to pick where we take casualties from Overwatch (Overwatch still hurts), and only have to get within 1" when charging. That helps them right there without any other changes. And having a chance to deny your opponents being able to fall back seems really nice. Especially if the wyches are being a support unit to a more capable dark eldar melee unit. I am not by any means saying that they will be awesome. Just that not all of the rules seem to work against the ladies.

But yeah salt away if you need to. I won't try and stop you. We are all free to write what we want. It helps to say/write and get a little steam off of your shoulders sometimes. I just think that being constructive when "salting" is better than just doom saying. The Dark Eldar crowd is a passionate crowd. I can't say anything bad about that that is for sure.

regarding wyches:

We don't know whether their specific stats and rules are favorable in 8th, but we do know that the core rules heavily benefit light infantry (can wound everything, is harder to wound by weapons 2 points above their toughness, get armor save more often) and melee is more viable.

Thus, wyches will be better. how they compare to other light infantry is unknown though

The Shredder wrote:

colinsherlow wrote:

GW seems like they are getting their crap together.

That statement would carry a lot more weight if GW hadn't already managed to mess up the wording of their rules.  

As written, the Assault rule doesn't actually do anything.

Haha! Say what? Charging doesn't work? How so? That is kind of hilarious!

GW as in concentrating on writing better rules, listening to the community, using not GW people for play testing, actual play testing. GW might need better editors though. Haha

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listening to the community

Correction, listening to extremely specific playtesters.

TeenageAngst wrote:

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listening to the community

Correction, listening to extremely specific playtesters.

Yes specific play testers & Tournament organizers. Not everyone. That makes sense though. Who else would you listen to when making a new edition? Non-play testers? People that are not supposed to know about super awesome secret projects? Haha!

7th ed FAQ was for everyone. GW is listening. Doesn't mean they will do what everyone wants. Which is impossible. But they are listening and actually trying now. 8th won't be perfect, but no game system is. You just do your best to make it as good as you can.
You can get all salty towards GW for that?

Let's assume they really get poison weapons, maybe even with Rending -1. Get those against giant wraith lord like enemies and profit!

The front line guys are pumped and maybe I'm a bit naive but I want to believe.

CptMetal wrote:

Let's assume they really get poison weapons, maybe even with Rending -1. Get those against giant wraith lord like enemies and profit!

The front line guys are pumped and maybe I'm a bit naive but I want to believe.

I am assuming the DE poison weapons will be similar to the nurgle weapons. Re-rolling 1s to wound. Which is ok. But I would like to see something a little different

colinsherlow wrote:

Haha! Say what? Charging doesn't work? How so? That is kind of hilarious!

No, sorry, I was referring to the new Assault rule for ranged weapons:

"A model with an Assault weapon can fire it even if it Advanced this turn. If it does so, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made when firing the weapon this turn."

However, RAW, you're not actually allowed to select the unit in the first place:

"First you must pick one of your units to shoot with. You may not pick a unit that Advanced or Fell Back this turn..."

As written, the Assault rule doesn't actually override this. So your models are physically capable of firing they're assault weapons, but you you're not allowed to order them to do so.

I know the RAI is pretty obvious, but still.

colinsherlow wrote:

I am assuming the DE poison weapons will be similar to the nurgle weapons. Re-rolling 1s to wound. Which is ok. But I would like to see something a little different

If that's the case, I wonder what the strength of our ranged Poison weapons will be.

The Shredder wrote:

So, no concerns about being unable to disembark from a transport if it moved?

Not in the slightest.

Sure, it would be much better if we could move then get out and then charge, but that would just serve to make Aeldari assault armies broken, I mean just think how easy it would be to get a turn 1 assault off with pretty much everything in the army when our vehicles go at least 16", then we get out a further 7" (assuming base Aeldari movement is now 7") and charge 2D6 +1. The get out before moving rule evens things out across armies.

Besides, with the (expected) fact that our vehicles will be able to go about a 3rd further than they used to, we should actually have a decent chance of getting off turn 1 charges with them and I fully expect a properly kitted out Raider to be all kinds of nasty on the charge.

However, It's looking like turn 1 charges are still going to be a bit too hit and miss so I'm thinking move up turn 1 from the edge of the deployment zone and position yourself for mass turn 2 charges, 10" from the vehicle (3" disembark + base 7" move) would mean most of our infantry is now well within our opponents deployment zone and we can then send in the vehicles to absorb overwatch.

Sure, this is a pretty basic analysis of what we can do based on the core rules and the minimal information from the DE and Eldar faction focus plus other tid bits and doesn't take into account any special rules that frankly none of us are in a position to know about just yet, but it looks like we are actually having an emphasis placed on getting our movement and positioning right to make assault work which, given it's ability to completely shut down a shooty army makes sense (especially when you consider that reserves come in when you want them, without scattering and can charge the same turn).

The Shredder wrote:

colinsherlow wrote:

Haha! Say what? Charging doesn't work? How so? That is kind of hilarious!

No, sorry, I was referring to the new Assault rule for ranged weapons:

"A model with an Assault weapon can fire it even if it Advanced this turn. If it does so, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made when firing the weapon this turn."

However, RAW, you're not actually allowed to select the unit in the first place:

"First you must pick one of your units to shoot with. You may not pick a unit that Advanced or Fell Back this turn..."

As written, the Assault rule doesn't actually override this. So your models are physically capable of firing they're assault weapons, but you you're not allowed to order them to do so.  

I know the RAI is pretty obvious, but still.

colinsherlow wrote:

I am assuming the DE poison weapons will be similar to the nurgle weapons. Re-rolling 1s to wound. Which is ok. But I would like to see something a little different

If that's the case, I wonder what the strength of our ranged Poison weapons will be.

I'm sorry but "even if it Advanced this turn" is about as clear an override as it gets, nothing else is remotely needed.

I should point that the Nurgle weapon Colin is pointing to is the Plague Knife that lets you re-roll 1's, but the Plague Sword is straight up re-rolls To Wound, both being S User, a clear case of bespoke rules for the unit's weapons. I would imagine our Splinter weapons are still S1 and that for us poison works the same way as it does in 7th, it's one of those things that doesnt have a need to change and reflects our army pretty well anyway.

What I think is being overlooked in all the talk about assault from vehicles is that things like bikes and jump infantry are almost certainly going to be better at assaulting than any of our vehicle-based units and don't face the drawback of potentially being surrounded in their transports and killled automatically!

Count Adhemar wrote:

What I think is being overlooked in all the talk about assault from vehicles is that things like bikes and jump infantry are almost certainly going to be better at assaulting than any of our vehicle-based units and don't face the drawback of potentially being surrounded in their transports and killled automatically!

I havent, i'm thinking we might see hellions on the table for once.

Count Adhemar wrote:

What I think is being overlooked in all the talk about assault from vehicles is that things like bikes and jump infantry are almost certainly going to be better at assaulting than any of our vehicle-based units and don't face the drawback of potentially being surrounded in their transports and killled automatically!

Yeah, that kind of goes without saying. Good job we still have Reavers.

Well, those bikes and stuff are no troops most likely. Whereas the stuff in our boats are troops. And everything else. So I'm fine with that.

I hope we have a Strength value and poison that wounds all non vehicle units on 4+. And maybe a way to improve it to 3+.
Anyway: I'm really looking forward to that and plan on buying two boxes of gangs of Commorragh

Hellions and reavers could easily be the first chargers, along with wych raiders, that would absorb overwatch themselves.

Wych cults playable, at last

In all, it seems that GW wants every unit to be tactically useful in 8th (sales, sales, sales). No more codex creep, happier players, profit is coming.

colinsherlow wrote:

CptMetal wrote:

Let's assume they really get poison weapons, maybe even with Rending -1. Get those against giant wraith lord like enemies and profit!

The front line guys are pumped and maybe I'm a bit naive but I want to believe.

I am assuming the DE poison weapons will be similar to the nurgle weapons. Re-rolling 1s to wound. Which is ok. But I would like to see something a little different

Nope - Having seen the index (briefly) I can say poison is still 4+ except vs vehicles where its a 6+

Faitherun wrote:

Nope - Having seen the index (briefly) I can say poison is still 4+ except vs vehicles where its a 6+

Woot, bleeding Woot! That's great!

So is it only against vehicles that we need a 6+? (If you saw it in full ) or do we have trouble against MC's and GMC's still?

Faitherun wrote:

colinsherlow wrote:

CptMetal wrote:

Let's assume they really get poison weapons, maybe even with Rending -1. Get those against giant wraith lord like enemies and profit!

The front line guys are pumped and maybe I'm a bit naive but I want to believe.

I am assuming the DE poison weapons will be similar to the nurgle weapons. Re-rolling 1s to wound. Which is ok. But I would like to see something a little different

Nope - Having seen the index (briefly) I can say poison is still 4+ except vs vehicles where its a 6+

Excellent!!!