8th DE - what's good?

I never liked Poison weapons TBH, i wrote up a couple topics about it last edition in many places.

GW puts to much into Poison weapons, especially ranged ones, IMO they overcompensate them at least 25%.

Always wounds on 4 is good, but with 0ap and for the cost (15pts for 3/6 shots) i'd rather spend the 15pts on Shuriken.

Splinter Cannon: 12 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds  < no chance of AP
Shuriken Cannon: 6 Shots, 4 hits, 3 wounds  < chance of -3 AP

So 1 wound less but chance of AP

Now against a T3 guy you wound on 2's over 4's.... I dont care about T7+ b.c i want them for AI not AT or high toughness, poison is better against high toughness non tanks, but there really isnt enough of that, and even then T6 will wound tanks on 5+ over poisons 6+

So for me the 1 out of 10 games i can wound 1-3 models on a 4+ where other guns wounds on a 5+ isnt enough justification compare to T3 units and T4 with 0 chance of AP.

Jeah my major hurdle is the tank aspect.
I regularly play against nids where poison weapons are great (being as effective as s3,4,6) but no ap hurts against those high t monsters. And orks where some poison is fine (it is usually effectively s4 with some s5 vs bikers)
But those 6 to wound vehicles hurts a lot (orks have t5 and t6 vehicles which means half the time a lasgun would be a better shot then my expensive splinter rifle)
And we have 2 general options either splinter weaponry or darkmatter (blasters darklances etc) we miss the middle ground now since they made heatlances insanely expensive. And while dissies are nice, we cannot carry them with any infantry and they are really expensive as well.

Yep, DE has no middle groud, we do have weapons that are middle ground but they are either replacing a much more needed weapon or again they have 0ap (Shredders)

Is the middle ground razor wing missiles?

Not on every troop, but it definitely fills that gap, and has very little opportunity cost due to changing ammunition type when required.

I've sold myself on these razor wings something shocking...

S5-6 is the middle ground for most armies.

We have S0 poison and S8 in masses

We have a couple guns that are between but we can not spam them, 1 Missile per Flier isnt the same.

SM: Heavy Bolters, Assault cannons, Heavy Flamers
Tau: Burst Cannons, SMS, Heavy BC's, Pulse Rifles
Orks: Big Shootas, Dakka Guns, Skorcha's, Lobbas

All these are easily spamable, when you then look at the few DE mid ground weapons you see they are very specialized, only few high cost units can take them or they just are only available on 1-2 unit.

The Razorwing with Dis Cannons is our Mid ground unit, or a Raider with Dis Cannons with a Trueborn unit of Shredders. The problem is we need our DL's most of the times.
But if you look at our mid ground compare to every other army you can tell the large difference in, range, point costs (we are 2x and 3x more costly), availability, etc...

Not saying this is a bad thing per-say, i love DE, we just dont get the mid ground treatment like everyone else does. Thats why i dont like Poison.

If we could get Dis Cannons on 3 units (Trueborns, Scourges and Talos) i'd be happy.

At least its better then the Str 3 splinter rifles and Str 4 splinter cannons of 3rd edition Dark Eldar. Poison is a big step up from that.

I grew up with them and I really like it. Makes us unique. And a friend of mine is playing Nurgle

That's why I splice in Eldar when making balanced lists:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2017/06/ynnari-balancing-out-faction.html

I configure my firepower-based lists based on range-band. I'm going to diversify my firepower in terms of role and strength so I have a balanced approach in games.

The list featured there is what I'm taking to a local tournament on the 2nd. I'll you folks know how it goes.

Im hearing that the Voidraven kills 7 out of 10 man squad.

The wording on the Mine is: every other model in the unit, up to a maximum of 10 D6.

so, for a 20man enemy unit, you can roll 10 D6 or for a 6man unit you can roll 3 D6, right ?

We have S5 with what? Shredders and the splinter pods the Talos can take?

doriii wrote:

Im hearing that the Voidraven kills 7 out of 10 man squad.

The wording on the Mine is: every other model in the unit, up to a maximum of 10 D6.

so, for a 20man enemy unit, you can roll 10 D6 or for a 6man unit you can roll 3 D6, right ?

No, that wording is in the context of "for every vehicle or monster in the unit roll 3d6. For every other model...." In this context, "other" means "other than monsters or vehicles", not "every other". The sentences conflict otherwise, as you would both roll 3d6, and half a d6, for a vehicle/monster in the unit.

drynwyn wrote:

doriii wrote:

Im hearing that the Voidraven kills 7 out of 10 man squad.

The wording on the Mine is: every other model in the unit, up to a maximum of 10 D6.

so, for a 20man enemy unit, you can roll 10 D6 or for a 6man unit you can roll 3 D6, right ?

No, that wording is in the context of "for every vehicle or monster in the unit roll 3d6. For every other model...." In this context, "other" means "other than monsters or vehicles", not "every other". The sentences conflict otherwise, as you would both roll 3d6, and half a d6, for a vehicle/monster in the unit.

100% agreed.

So a unit consisting of a monster and three guys would give you 6 dice in total.

So I ended up with a harlie force on returning to the game after a long hiatus playing infinity and others. I've got it to about 1500 points and looking at diminishing returns really in the run up to 2k. Keep looking at aeldari keyword units and discounting craft world stuff in favour of running some dark eldar stuff in. Harlies lack cheap bodies and volume of AT fire so I'm thinking warriors with lance/blaster, raider, wyches to help the harlies, succubus for extra punch and a voidraven for more dakka. That sound sensible or anyone got any advice?

csjarrat wrote:

So I ended up with a harlie force on returning to the game after a long hiatus playing infinity and others. I've got it to about 1500 points and looking at diminishing returns really in the run up to 2k. Keep looking at aeldari keyword units and discounting craft world stuff in favour of running some dark eldar stuff in. Harlies lack cheap bodies and volume of AT fire so I'm thinking warriors with lance/blaster, raider, wyches to help the harlies, succubus for extra punch and a voidraven for more dakka. That sound sensible or anyone got any advice?

Quite sensible. Point for point, I prefer the Razorwing to the Voidraven, though taking Dark Scythes helps with that.

If you want good AT sadly the best is Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers from Eldar, other wise just take Ravagers, Blasters on Trueborns or Scourges for DS/Moving AT

dark reaper models are well in need of a resculpt and fire dragons need an expensive (points and cash) transport to be useful but certainly keen on looking at the other DE stuff as I used to have a force in 5th ed

Good:
Mandrakes
Razorwing Jetfighters
Ravagers
Tantalus
Raider
Venom
Succubus


Bad:
Talos
Cronos
Grots
Reavers


The rest are decent. Not great, but decent.

Skulnbonz wrote:

Good:
Mandrakes
Razorwing Jetfighters
Ravagers
Tantalus
Raider
Venom
Succubus



Bad:
Talos
Cronos
Grots
Reavers


The rest are decent. Not great, but decent.

I would add scourges and FW reaper to the list but thats just IMO!

I would hesitate to put grots in the bad category off the bat. Maybe decent for now.

I have not figured out how to address hordes with our army yet. Arguably beasts are good at this for screening, as are our base troops (for what they cost), along with our general ability to control engagements based on speed, and the PfP table making us naturally good at cc.