Apparently... we're next.

If it works for him then fair play. But even if his sort of list did become meta defining, I couldn't justify spending the money on hundreds of models with relatively low point costs. I'll take guys in paper boats anyday

Mikoneo wrote:

If it works for him then fair play. But even if his sort of list did become meta defining, I couldn't justify spending the money on hundreds of models with relatively low point costs. I'll take guys in paper boats anyday

Try to get used Warhounds, thats what i did. I got like 40 of them for only 25$ ish.

Are those war hounds models from games workshop?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Warhounds

Yes, they are like 25 USD for 10 normally. Many Chaos Daemons players will get them b.c they are solid units but end up not playing them b.c they are like Hormaganst for Tyranids. They are A- units and not A+ units and players dont play enough of them to make them work. So it is common for them to be sold off.

I think what's getting a lot of people irritated on the forum about the list isn't necessarily the condescending tone (it didn't help matters either) but more that he is refusing to actually show the list and has set a date for list release well after the codex release, and the codex release is going to change the way DE play. Not only that but as others have mentioned while his list may work in his area, it's more than likely not going to work every where and he has adamantly refused to accept that as the case. Plus why wait so long to put out the list? I don't like net listing myself but that doesn't mean I don't look at other lists to see what other people use. If his list doesn't have any counter why be scared to actually show it? Its that along with the claim that if we all played this way we would be at the top tables everywhere that's getting people angry. Does he have points? Yes. Does it work for him? Sure. But there is one small thing that makes me a little iffy. How can you get the cost of a unit wrong (khymaeras) and not correct it until someone else points out that it's wrong if you play the same list as often as claimed? Mistakes happen, I get that, but to wait for someone to point it out then say the equivalent of "oh, that's what I meant to say" is a little ... Questionable ...

The funny thing about all this is that beast spam has already been a well-discussed list in 8th edition - it's the reason why Razorwing Flocks got nerfed so hard, and after that none of the three beast units are anywhere near as effective.

yeah it's bait meant for the king of fishkind himself

Trouble with Khymera spam is the footprint. Good luck deploying and maneuvering with 108 40mm bases and keeping 3 BM in range. Then there is the issue with not being able to go up levels or through fething ruins. I think Beast packs have a lot of merit for area denial and screening and counter punch but that army is hilariously easy to counter.

Jesus, a couple rhinos assaulting the front two units would absolutely clog your advance. Khymera just are not durable enough. They eat guardsmen, but they also cost almost three times as much and have to cross the gap first. I have had moderate success spamming single clawed fiends since they deny area, are easy to assault with from behind cover and in a pinch can block movement between terrain for larger enemy models, I would imagine you could do something similar with single pairs of dogs, any time I take Kymera in large numbers it requires two-three full units to guarantee one makes it in, and then they amount to a bunch of bolter shots. He may be very successful, but I would imagine it has something to do with his meta and less to do with how good khymera are in a vacuum.

EDIT: I would say single clawed fiends would easily be better for MSU, since they are only 8 points per wound as opposed to 10 and are immune to moral unlike single pair dogs, who run 50% of the time after a single wound. The only real winner currently for beastpacks are fiends and if you take a large unit you have to factor in the tax of the required beastmaster on splinter mind. This should all be addressed again in 2 months when we get an update of course.

The problem with Claw Fiends is that Meta has an INSANE amount of D2 damage

amishprn86 wrote:

The problem with Claw Fiends is that Meta has an INSANE amount of D2 damage

Which is why I run them as singles. People tend to require overkill to remove a single so they don't bother, meanwhile they are PITA in regard to area denial for reserves as well as handy against other min squads of GEQ for objectives.

Far from perfect but I generally find running with at least a few comes in handy more then you might expect.

They have 4 wounds, still good for me. And the meta have even more D3 dmg, where Clawed Fiends really shine against.

Yea exactly, the 4 wounds makes them a pain for them to take out.

A noteable drawback to running Clawed Fiends in singles is not being able to webway a few in. I run 4 that I will drop into the back line usually with scourge support. They create a big distraction and potential threat that has to be dealt with.

I like clawed fiends a lot, they can run as a screen blocking units like you said. And they are a solid CC hammer unit if you can manage to get them in.

dropping them in is risky though, without a beastmaster near them, any casualties you take are almost guaranteed to cause morale losses

You can avoid morale by keeping them single, as you can't fail a morale check if the whole unit is already gone by the first casualty.

Sure but you can't drop them all and you're going to run out of FA slots rather quickly

Just take an additional vanguard detachment?