Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party

Thanks for the clarification. Still excited about this!

Count Adhemar wrote:

Dalamar wrote:: I will most assuredly have to listen in to "Signals from the Frontline" Wednesday. because there are more issues than just saying Drukhari can take up to 8 patrol detachments. Right now the min point expenditure for that is 594. Now, can we still take a craftworld detachment, or an Ynnari? How about another Drukhari brigade? On the strict side if you use this rule you can only have Patrol detachments of Drukhari meaning we can never break 11 CP.

What I would like is your entire army must be Drukhari, All patrol detachments count as one detachment for for the purpose of the 3 detachment limit.

There's nothing to suggest that you need to take an entire Drukhari army and that goes against the whole design of the game for 8e. All we need is some sort of special dispensation to break the 3 detachment limit.

I get you, however I'm talking from the Tournament organizer perspective. Most tournaments have a hard detachment limit 2 or 3. They are not going to want to say every one except any army that decides to include Drukhari must maintain the Detachment limit. I could take 6 patrol detachments and 2 craftworld battalions get 17 CP and only have 600 points invested in Drukhari. people who play me are not going to be happy and The tournament Organizer is not going to be happy when people complain that the craftworld player gets to break the rules why can't I. That is why I suggest it only be limited to Drukhari mono faction armies. Less headaches all around.

That being said we still need point costs and other cool reveals to see if this is such a big deal.

Trueborn Posts : 2970 Join date : 2013-04-11

Oh joy. Because I really want to have to take even more of our godawful HQ choices.

Incubi Posts : 1844 Join date : 2017-07-05

The Shredder wrote:: Oh joy. Because I really want to have to take even more of our godawful HQ choices.

There might be some profile changes in the codex, you know ^^

Trueborn Posts : 2970 Join date : 2013-04-11

Mppqlmd wrote:

The Shredder wrote:: Oh joy. Because I really want to have to take even more of our godawful HQ choices.

There might be some profile changes in the codex, you know ^^

Then I wish they'd release those first, so that I could actually have a shred of optimism for HQ-related stuff.

I mean, someone had to look at the Succubus' Glaive and think to themselves 'Yep, this looks entirely reasonable'. You'll forgive me if I'm not optimistic about such people fixing our HQs in any meaningful way. Razz

Also, even if our HQs are made decent, does anyone thing for even 1 second that they'll have access to Jetbikes or such? Because if not, then all we're getting is more excess HQs to jog sweatily behind the rest of our army because there's no room for them in our transports.

As I've said before, I'll believe that these issues have been fixed when I see it.

Sybarite Posts : 450 Join date : 2015-04-20

This is to be expected. We will start getting real details once preorder is going on. This is for the hype.

The Shredder wrote:: Then I wish they'd release those first, so that I could actually have a shred of optimism for HQ-related stuff.

A shred eh? XD

Given the pattern we've been seeing regarding the improvement of HQ units across the codexes, I think it's safe to say that our HQs will be seeing some buffs, the Necron Lord being the best (and most recent) example by far.

Wych Posts : 777 Join date : 2017-03-10

You know, I like the idea of multiple patrols in theory..but in practice, I think that multiple Battalions are just going to outpreform it. The idea, I would think, is to have three different facets of your raid, Kabal, Cult, and Coven, so I'm going to work off of the assumption of taking one of each.

So, three patrols, each with a subfaction is a minimum of 511 Points, and gives 4CP. Not bad, really.

However, three Battallions, each just adding an extra HQ and Troop only brings the total up to 817 points, with 9CP, and far more space for support units.

While a little more money in plastic, I'll take doubling my Command Points for 300 points any day.

The disparity is more apparent when you go with the pure cheapest options, Kabal. 384 Points for 4CP with Patrols. 663 Points for 9CP with Battallions. Interestingly, it's about 300 points again to double your CP.

Moving it up to 6 Patrols, things don't improve, 768 minimum for 8 CPs. Cheaper and more profitable to just stick with Battallions.

Take this with a grain of salt, of course, points will undoubtedly fluctuate 20% in one direction or the other.

However, while Raiding Parties might see some use in small games (750-1000 range), I predict that Battalions will still dominate DE list comp. This rule, while unique, fluffy, and interesting, simply won't be used.

Edit: Words

Last edited by Imateria on Mon Mar 26 2018, 17:01; edited 2 times in total

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:: I see possible greatness from this article. It will be interesting to see what they do with the free agent thingy with the incubi.

Absolutely nothing. They'll be just like Triarch Praetorians or Phoenix Lords, you're free to take them in a detachment without losing your Kabal, Cult or Coven trait, but they wont be getting anything.

As fro what we've seen, the stratagem looks very cool, I like it, but the Raiding Force rule is pure trash for the reasons outlined above by TheBaconPope and for the way it messes with detachment limits in competitive play (as league organiser I wont be making exceptions for Drukhari, there's a good reason for detachment limits in the first place).

Trueborn Posts : 2970 Join date : 2013-04-11

PartZebra wrote:: A shred eh? XD

PartZebra wrote:: Given the pattern we've been seeing regarding the improvement of HQ units across the codexes, I think it's safe to say that our HQs will be seeing some buffs, the Necron Lord being the best (and most recent) example by far.

The Necron Lord was buffed, sure, but then the Destroyer Lord wasn't fixed at all (we've still got a melee unit that's only able to impart a shooting buff, and then only to one specific squad). You've also got special characters like Trazyn, who were in dire need of help but received none.

I don't think meaningful buffs to our HQs are a given. Not to mention that one of the buffs they're most in need of (a wings/skyboard/jetbike option) is one they can't have because there isn't a specific model for such.

Imateria wrote:: Absolutely nothing. They'll be just like Triarch Praetorians or Phoenix Lords, you're free to take them in a detachment without losing your Kabal, Cult or Coven trait, but they wont be getting anything.

The article says that each of the factions will be getting something, and they include the mercs among those "factions". Sure it may just be a stratagem/relic or two, but there's hope of more. High hopes, low expectations. Either way, they aren't getting nothing.

Hellion Posts : 94 Join date : 2017-07-02

Imateria wrote:

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:: I see possible greatness from this article. It will be interesting to see what they do with the free agent thingy with the incubi.

Absolutely nothing. They'll be just like Triarch Praetorians or Phoenix Lords, you're free to take them in a detachment without losing your Kabal, Cult or Coven trait, but they wont be getting anything.

Honestly, I'm not too miffed about that right now, seeing as how they're pretty solid units already. I'm reasonably sure they'll get a unique stratagem or two as well.

The Shredder wrote:: The Necron Lord was buffed, sure, but then the Destroyer Lord wasn't fixed at all (we've still got a melee unit that's only able to impart a shooting buff, and then only to one specific squad). You've also got special characters like Trazyn, who were in dire need of help but received none.

I don't think meaningful buffs to our HQs are a given. Not to mention that one of the buffs they're most in need of (a wings/skyboard/jetbike option) is one they can't have because there isn't a specific model for such.

Hmm, that's a good point. But then the Destroyer Lord has all the goodness of a Destroyed (who are kinda nuts, if a bit expensive), and Trazyn not getting something is a shame. Then again, they do have a lot of characters, with some getting new options (Cryptek), so I'd have been surprised if every Necron in need of improvement got something.

I don't think it's a given, no, but I think it's a safe bet.

FrankyMcShanky wrote:

Imateria wrote:

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:: I see possible greatness from this article. It will be interesting to see what they do with the free agent thingy with the incubi.

Absolutely nothing. They'll be just like Triarch Praetorians or Phoenix Lords, you're free to take them in a detachment without losing your Kabal, Cult or Coven trait, but they wont be getting anything.

Honestly, I'm not too miffed about that right now, seeing as how they're pretty solid units already. I'm reasonably sure they'll get a unique stratagem or two as well.

Neither am I, I just can't for the life of me understand why anybody would think that Incubi, Mandrakes and Scourges are suddenly going to become a fourth sub faction of the codex, they are completely separate from each other as well as the Kabals, Cults and Covens. Stratagems that can be used on those three units are almost a given as well.

Wych Posts : 845 Join date : 2012-07-02

Sarkesian wrote:: Totally going to run a triumvirate! Nihilus the Archon, Sion the Haemonculus, and Traya the Succubus.

Surely Traya would be the Archon, Nihilus the Haemonculus, and Sion the Succubus, except for the bit about him not being a girl. Smile

Barking Agatha wrote:

Sarkesian wrote:: Totally going to run a triumvirate! Nihilus the Archon, Sion the Haemonculus, and Traya the Succubus.

Surely Traya would be the Archon, Nihilus the Haemonculus, and Sion the Succubus, except for the bit about him not being a girl. Smile

I was thinking NIhilus for Archon due to Soul Stone, Sion for Haemonculus cuz he's tough as nails and refuses to die, Traya for Succubus mainly due to female, and also amazing fighter. But you can name yours your way and I'll name mine my way, and we'll both quite enjoy Drukhari 8th edition! Cheers

I so hope for a named kabal character. Not that I would sell out my Ascarion Rhekyt for it.
I just want to have one.

Hekatrix Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13

The Shredder wrote:

PartZebra wrote:: A shred eh? XD

PartZebra wrote:: Given the pattern we've been seeing regarding the improvement of HQ units across the codexes, I think it's safe to say that our HQs will be seeing some buffs, the Necron Lord being the best (and most recent) example by far.

The Necron Lord was buffed, sure, but then the Destroyer Lord wasn't fixed at all (we've still got a melee unit that's only able to impart a shooting buff, and then only to one specific squad). You've also got special characters like Trazyn, who were in dire need of help but received none.

I don't think meaningful buffs to our HQs are a given. Not to mention that one of the buffs they're most in need of (a wings/skyboard/jetbike option) is one they can't have because there isn't a specific model for such.

Starting off the morning bitter as always Shredder Very Happy

Here I'm thinking.. hmm, if they're pushing us so heavily into MSU patrols, it would be absolutely face-palmingly neckbeardingly stupid if they didn't make our HQs worthwhile. I mean, they're a MANDATORY choice.

If you want some more bitterness, now imagine that the Archon/Succubus/Haemonculi not providing bonuses for units outside their type (Kabal, Wych, Coven). I'm 99% sure this will be the case.

Hekatrix Posts : 1157 Join date : 2015-12-06

I think it's a bit early to just write off the raiding force patrol detachments as useless and say that the battalion detachment is the way to run DE. Sure, it's technically more CP but the detachment is also more restrictive, forcing you to take more units in each slot, and you won't be able to benefit from the special rules for kabals, cults and covens all in the same army. I think we at least need to see how the traits/stratagems for our three subfactions work before we can just write off the raiding force.

Trueborn Posts : 2970 Join date : 2013-04-11

PartZebra wrote:: Hmm, that's a good point. But then the Destroyer Lord has all the goodness of a Destroyed (who are kinda nuts, if a bit expensive)

I don't see how, given that he lacks their gun (which is why you'd take a Destroyer in the first place). In terms of HQs, outside of his speed he almost seems like a worst-of-both-worlds. He lacks the WS/BS and MWBD ability of an Overlord, but then he also lacks the Necron Lord's reroll wounds aura.

I think he'd have been fine if he'd just been given the Necron Lord's aura.

I'd really like to think our HQs had been buffed, but it seems like GW's no-model, no-rules policy will have written them into a corner in this regard.

PartZebra wrote:: The article says that each of the factions will be getting something, and they include the mercs among those "factions". Sure it may just be a stratagem/relic or two, but there's hope of more. High hopes, low expectations. Either way, they aren't getting nothing.

I was initially excited when I read that Incubi, Scourges and (presumably) Mandrakes will get their own Warlord Traits and Artefacts, as it implied that these would all be getting HQs in some form.

I'm guessing it'll actually just be some guff for a random squad member to take.

HERO wrote:: Starting off the morning bitter as always Shredder

I'm not bitter - merely pessimistic.

Bitter is reserved for when the codex is actually released. Wink

HERO wrote:: Here I'm thinking.. hmm, if they're pushing us so heavily into MSU patrols, it would be absolutely face-palmingly neckbeardingly stupid if they didn't make our HQs worthwhile. I mean, they're a MANDATORY choice.

I want to believe that. I really do.

HERO wrote:: If you want some more bitterness, now imagine that the Archon/Succubus/Haemonculi not providing bonuses for units outside their type (Kabal, Wych, Coven). I'm 99% sure this will be the case.

Oh, I'd already assumed as much.

TheBaconPope wrote:: You know, I like the idea of multiple patrols in theory..but in practice, I think that multiple Battalions are just going to outpreform it. The idea, I would think, is to have three different facets of your raid, Kabal, Cult, and Coven, so I'm going to work off of the assumption of taking one of each.

So, three patrols, each with a subfaction is a minimum of 511 Points, and gives 4CP. Not bad, really.

However, three Battallions, each just adding an extra HQ and Troop only brings the total up to 817 points, with 9CP, and far more space for support units.

While a little more money in plastic, I'll take doubling my Command Points for 300 points any day.

The disparity is more apparent when you go with the pure cheapest options, Kabal. 384 Points for 4CP with Patrols. 663 Points for 9CP with Battallions. Interestingly, it's about 300 points again to double your CP.

Moving it up to 6 Patrols, things don't improve, 768 minimum for 8 CPs. Cheaper and more profitable to just stick with Battallions.

Take this with a grain of salt, of course, points will undoubtedly fluctuate 20% in one direction or the other.

However, while Raiding Parties might see some use in small games (750-1000 range), I predict that Battalions will still dominate DE list comp. This rule, while unique, fluffy, and interesting, simply won't be used.

Edit: Words

I think you are a little off. A patrol is 1 HQ and 1 Troop min. Battalion is 2HQ 3 Troop.

The Min points for 6 Battalions with 2 of each HQ is 694 with their matching troops. 6 HQ 6 Troops.

The min points of the same in 3 battalions is 905. 6 HQ 9 Troops.

So you save 211 points but lose 1 CP going with Patrols.

I'm pumped, it seems really interesting and fluffy, they have definitely thought about making it feel like different factions coming together for a common goal.

Incubi Posts : 1844 Join date : 2017-07-05

It's not impossible that the HQ buffs we've all been hoping for would be included as Warlord traits, which would make that stratagem extra useful.

Hekatrix Posts : 1157 Join date : 2015-12-06

I wouldn't mind that at all, spending a single cp to make all of our characters have some sort of extra force multiplier effect seems solid to me.

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 136 Join date : 2017-12-09

1 Battalion is better than 3 patrol. You can include The battalion and another detachment to have fast atack, heavy suport or elite and gain 5CP without lose the benefits to be in separate detachments.

The good thing is the 6 patrol. You can have the benefits of a brigade just adding 3 HQ more and forgoten the penalitation of inclued 3 units of each slot.

3 patrol is just the solution that GW provides to the DE players that only have 1 unit of each troops. Do you usualy play a batallion with 1 units of warriors, 1 warcks and 1 witchs? Don't worry, this is the solution for you to the new organization of the codex.

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