Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party

eae wrote:

xzandrate wrote:

BigDaddyYumYums wrote:

12 is doable in 2000 pts, plus some points left for other heavy lifters.  Depending on strategems, how powerful is 19 CP?

12 patrols won't give you 19CP, Raiding Force is not a detachment, it's a rule that states 6+ Patrols = +8CP.

I realize that, just if a TO makes the Raiding Force "count as" a detachment. Pointing out the slippery slope this is creating.

Still the article got me pretty hyped that they are making some significant changes to how the army plays from a fluff perspective which is a good first step. Will wait and see what else comes over the next 2 weeks.

xzandrate wrote:

I realize that, just if a TO makes the Raiding Force "count as" a detachment.  Pointing out the slippery slope this is creating.

Oh, I see what you mean. But you could still only have 1 Raiding Force since it's not a detachment but "counts as" one. And I really think some sort of such a rule would save us a ton of trouble and nerve in competitive play, while at the same time I don't see any reason for such a rule to exist in open play, go Unbound, have fun, stuff like that.

At a certain point I think stacking more and more detachments for extra cp just isn't worth it. 8cp from 6 patrols seems like plenty to me, though granted we are not sure yet what our stratagems do so can't say for sure how many cps is reasonable.

If you're using 6 Patrols, wouldn't a Brigade be more efficient in most cases?

You can assume you'll use 3CP for a webway portal, 1CP for the "3 warlord traits"... The game isn't even started and you're already at 4. Add a reaper reroll per turn and you're at 8 (if the game last 4 turns)

The Shredder wrote:

If you're using 6 Patrols, wouldn't a Brigade be more efficient in most cases?

That makes you take Elites, heavy, and fast, if you are not playing with those, then no.

amishprn86 wrote:

The Shredder wrote:

If you're using 6 Patrols, wouldn't a Brigade be more efficient in most cases?

That makes you take Elites, heavy, and fast, if you are not playing with those, then no.

Well, most lists I see include 3 Ravagers, so that's HS sorted.

At worst, you can have 3 Elites *and* 3 FA units for less than 3 HQs.

And it nets you an extra CP.

The Shredder wrote:

If you're using 6 Patrols, wouldn't a Brigade be more efficient in most cases?

A Brigade would only have one Kabal/Cult/Coven tactics rule, Raiding Force is to use different tactics for different sub-factions of Drukhari.

The Shredder wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

The Shredder wrote:

If you're using 6 Patrols, wouldn't a Brigade be more efficient in most cases?

That makes you take Elites, heavy, and fast, if you are not playing with those, then no.

Well, most lists I see include 3 Ravagers, so that's HS sorted.

At worst, you can have 3 Elites *and* 3 FA units for less than 3 HQs.

And it nets you an extra CP.

Not if our HQs are finally good!

Quite an interesting idea. Now you could potentially have several sub-factions with separate special rules is that right? So two different Cult patrols using different special rules? You could have one that uses hellions and a rule that buffs them best and then a reaver cult with a different rule for them as well.

Is that correct?

By the way, am I the only one who thinks this is a lot like the Corsair Coterie detachment in 7th?

amishprn86 wrote:

Not if our HQs are finally good!

But what if our Elites/FA are also good?

xzandrate wrote:

I realize that, just if a TO makes the Raiding Force "count as" a detachment.  Pointing out the slippery slope this is creating.

Still the article got me pretty hyped that they are making some significant changes to how the army plays from a fluff perspective which is a good first step.  Will wait and see what else comes over the next 2 weeks.

"Slippery Slope" arguments are virtually worthless, and used to justify a lot of stupid decisions.

Frankly, it's a particular situation that calls for a particular ruling. and that's it.

Counting a raiding force as 1 detachment in a tourney, with a limitation of 1 raiding force per army (and possibly only allowed in an all Drukhari army) should be an acceptable tourney fix. Tourney organizations (especially ITC) have been in the business of putting out rebalancing guidelines for a while, so this shouldn't be that jarring of a ruling to make.

krayd wrote:

xzandrate wrote:

I realize that, just if a TO makes the Raiding Force "count as" a detachment.  Pointing out the slippery slope this is creating.

Still the article got me pretty hyped that they are making some significant changes to how the army plays from a fluff perspective which is a good first step.  Will wait and see what else comes over the next 2 weeks.

"Slippery Slope" arguments are virtually worthless, and used to justify a lot of stupid decisions.

Frankly, it's a particular situation that calls for a particular ruling. and that's it.

Counting a raiding force as 1 detachment in a tourney, with a limitation of 1 raiding force per army (and possibly only allowed in an all Drukhari army) should be an acceptable tourney fix. Tourney organizations (especially ITC) have been in the business of putting out rebalancing guidelines for a while, so this shouldn't be that jarring of a ruling to make.

Yup, really we wait for the Codex first, then lean on TOs.

We don't know what the rest of that page that the excerpt comes from, because currently 6 detachments isn't possible in organized play. Maybe at 5000 pts if we extrapolate, and at that point it's pretty underwhelming to get 8CP for all your detachments.

The Shredder wrote:

By the way, am I the only one who thinks this is a lot like the Corsair Coterie detachment in 7th?

amishprn86 wrote:

Not if our HQs are finally good!

But what if our Elites/FA are also good?

Im saying if you dont want Elites then its not worth a brigade, BUT we also dont know how the rules/buffs/stratagems/etc.. will work, we might want 5-6 detachments.

If we get several cults and kabals, with distincts traits/bonus, we will want severals detachments, with different units, to maximise the specialised roles of the units.

amishprn86 wrote:

The Shredder wrote:

By the way, am I the only one who thinks this is a lot like the Corsair Coterie detachment in 7th?

amishprn86 wrote:

Not if our HQs are finally good!

But what if our Elites/FA are also good?

Im saying if you dont want Elites then its not worth a brigade, BUT we also dont know how the rules/buffs/stratagems/etc.. will work, we might want 5-6 detachments.

Oh, I thought we were comparing our system to that of normal armies. My mistake.

Honestly, when I first saw this "raiding force" and "alliance of agony", I couldn't contain my joy and let out a moderately loud YEESSS.
Yes, these rules are not really strong, and probably won't be that useful at tournaments, but they are fluffy, and they give options for (non-competitive) list-building. It is already more than what I was expecting, so I can't wait for tomorrow's preview.

Also, I find "Drukhari Obsessions" as the name for our faction traits hilarious.

I agree for the most part, the raiding force idea seems like a unique way to make DE work. Granted I think our characters need to be improved to make taking multiple patrol detachments worth it, but as I've said before considering the trend GW has of improving characters from index to codex, I'm very confident that our characters will get some buffs.

Consider that there's no Coven/Kabal choices on FA. And no Wytch Cult on HS.

Say goodbye to the Brigade

No FA for kabal/coven is covered fairly easily by beast units and scourges, but I can't say I'm too interested in running a brigade anyway most of the time as I'd rather not be forced into taking 3 of each slot.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Quite an interesting idea. Now you could potentially have several sub-factions with separate special rules is that right? So two different Cult patrols using different special rules? You could have one that uses hellions and a rule that buffs them best and then a reaver cult with a different rule for them as well.

Is that correct?

You are absolutely correct! When you see the cult special rules you will start to see why Outrider detachments of Reavers, Hellions, and other things work. Add combat drug effects=good times.

Also, I get the Internet tournament scene nerd rage at the mention of the 6 Patrol thing. That was clearly put in for more narrative play games. In playtesting I used the triple patrol build to great effect, skipped the hell out of the six patrol deal since it's just easier to take a battalion and a couple of smaller Outrider detachments. People that are getting stuck on the six Patrol thing not being tournament legal are missing the larger context of the rest of the codex. There is no requirement to run that build!!! (Internets gonna internet)

Stoked to see people getting excited about the codex for once. While I'm not 100% drinking the Koolaide, I'm excited for 95%+ of all the changes and flavor that has been added. Old school Archons will see flavor that has been missing since some of the 3rd edition wargear. GW wanted to get the flavor of the army right and worked a lot of our suggestions in. Our playtesting opponents all commented that the army felt fast, terrifying, and brutal like a Realspace Raid should be.

I had the thought to give my succubus a warlord trait and have an archon with blaster as warlord, because, the succubus w-trait is awesome and the archon, well, can stay in safety. And voila, there we have it! Wonder what they come up with furthermore.

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Quite an interesting idea. Now you could potentially have several sub-factions with separate special rules is that right? So two different Cult patrols using different special rules? You could have one that uses hellions and a rule that buffs them best and then a reaver cult with a different rule for them as well.

Is that correct?

You are absolutely correct! When you see the cult special rules you will start to see why Outrider detachments of Reavers, Hellions, and other things work. Add combat drug effects=good times.

Also, I get the Internet tournament scene nerd rage at the mention of the 6 Patrol thing. That was clearly put in for more narrative play games. In playtesting I used the triple patrol build to great effect, skipped the hell out of the six patrol deal since it's just easier to take a battalion and a couple of smaller Outrider detachments. People that are getting stuck on the six Patrol thing not being tournament legal are missing the larger context of the rest of the codex. There is no requirement to run that build!!! (Internets gonna internet)

Stoked to see people getting excited about the codex for once. While I'm not 100% drinking the Koolaide, I'm excited for 95%+ of all the changes and flavor that has been added. Old school Archons will see flavor that has been missing since some of the 3rd edition wargear. GW wanted to get the flavor of the army right and worked a lot of our suggestions in. Our playtesting opponents all commented that the army felt fast, terrifying, and brutal like a Realspace Raid should be.

That sounds awesome. For whatever it's worth, and regardless how the codex turns out, I would like to say thank you to you and anyone else who's worked on this codex. I am excited, I'm excited for being excited, and I hope more people can find something to be excited about.

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Stoked to see people getting excited about the codex for once. While I'm not 100% drinking the Koolaide, I'm excited for 95%+ of all the changes and flavor that has been added. Old school Archons will see flavor that has been missing since some of the 3rd edition wargear.

If that includes skyboards and jetbikes, I will chug an entire gallon of the koolaide.

Just pitching in that as far as i know there is no 3 attachment limit in matched play, reading on page 214 it says its more of a guide line for organised events. So playing matched with a buddy you can bring 6 patrols (why you would want that i dont know).