TTT DE video

TheBaconPope wrote:

I think our HQ's are going to be a big inhibitor for us. I think we're going to be seeing a good 25% of our list sunk into HQ's that just suck. No other way to put it.

I don't think really its a concern, if you wanted to run horde you can basically lay down close to 200 models with upgrades with current prices at 2000pts easy, i was just doing the math, all our transports are cheaper, even with the HQ's i really do think we are going to see a lot more bodies, not less.

Iveseenit wrote:

FuelDrop wrote:

... Watching through the video. A lot of this looks like hot garbage.

really? there is so much good in the book man!

There is some good stuff sure, but a ton of the stuff is pure bullshit. GW seems to be of the opinion that making stuff cheaper is an acceptable alternative to making stuff actually decent.

A lot of the "good" stuff is negated by the bad stuff they did.

Archon getting a bit better but getting a price hike is dumb. No-one was taking one for how awesome they are anyway, so making them more expensive for improvements that, I will remind you, we will not actually be able to use due to how transports work... not impressing me.

More special weapons in Warrior Squads is a terrible trade for losing trueborn. Flat out terrible. Sure you can take 4 special weapons in a 20 man squad, but a 20 man squad means no transport. Not a good tradeoff for DE.

The Succubus got a price cut rather than being made good. Joy. So our ultimate duelist characters are still our worst melee combatants.

The succubus' weapon got D3 damage instead of 1, and dropped in price by almost a third. And she now apparently gives rerollable 1s to shooting attacks as well.

How is that not both getting better and cheaper?

the_scotsman wrote:

The succubus' weapon got D3 damage instead of 1, and dropped in price by almost a third. And she now apparently gives rerollable 1s to shooting attacks as well.

How is that not both getting better and cheaper?

Everyone was hoping for it to be identical to the CWE starglaive, and for her attacks to be brought up at at least 5, as having it at 4 made no sense.

Still, D3 dmg is better than nothing.

Uhh wasn't the only complaint about disintegrators the fact they are too expensive? If they are now 125 points for a disintegrator ravager, doesn't that just make it miles better?

the_scotsman wrote:

The succubus' weapon got D3 damage instead of 1, and dropped in price by almost a third. And she now apparently gives rerollable 1s to shooting attacks as well.

How is that not both getting better and cheaper?

The problem is that she's still worse than the Archon and Haemie in melee. Less attacks, -1 to hit (which STILL messes with the warlord trait! WTF GW!), and the Archon is outputting comparable damage including boosted ST, without the penalty to hit.

The AP difference between the Glaive and the Husk Blade is more or less a non-thing in character dueling, which is where the Succubus is supposed to excel. Any character worth their chops is going to have an invulnerable save, and the difference between -2 ap and -3 ap against 3+ 4++ is nonexistent.

Real quick, refresh my memory how the "I can just take index units" thing work. I've seen people bummed about Blaster missing on the Archon and no Trueborn.

HERO wrote:

Real quick, refresh my memory how the "I can just take index units" thing work.  I've seen people bummed about Blaster missing on the Archon and no Trueborn.

I think the unit being gone means we cant use it but wargear we can? I dunno that chart is so damn confusing

PFI wrote:

Uhh wasn't the only complaint about disintegrators the fact they are too expensive? If they are now 125 points for a disintegrator ravager, doesn't that just make it miles better?

My only complaint about Disintegrators has always been that they're vehicle only. Lack of a scourge portable version hurts me to my withered soul.

Any word on our generic traits? Do we have generic traits?

TheBaconPope wrote:

Any word on our generic traits? Do we have generic traits?

3 each.

Kabal -
Re-roll ALL wounds for warlord
+1 attack if charge, charged of heroic
Roll extra dice for morale while within 3 inc and take higest.(enemy)
Cult -
Always Fight First
2 combat drugs
6+ to wound = MW
Coven-
D3 wounds at start of turn
+1 wound in fight phase
re-roll FNP of 1's in aura

Those traits seem alright, nothing too exciting but not too bad either. Especially like the 2 drugs trait for a succubus, but I wonder how that will work with duplicate drugs.

I didn't find that the vbattlereport video revealed a whole lot, it looked like a fun battle though at least. Only thing I think I have to add is wych cults in general have a 1cp stratagem for flying units that pass over enemy units. Roll a dice for each of the models in your units, for each 6 the enemy unit takes a mortal wound. Add +1 to the roll if rolling against infantry. I already wanted to take a big unit of reavers/hellions, that stratagem just makes it even more tempting. Not great against non-infantry, but against infantry seems pretty sweet.

Agonizer profile the same?
PGL still 3 points, Shock Prow 1?

Just finishing up my list here

Grots gained a wound, mentioned in BoLS vid

Edit: Oh and the cleaver is now -2 AP

HERO wrote:

Agonizer profile the same?
PGL still 3 points, Shock Prow 1?

Just finishing up my list here

yes agoniser is the same. Generic succy relic is one that is +3 attacks version.

same pts for PGL and Prow

Wow a 7 attack succubus with an angonizer? That sounds kinda cool.

So... do Kabals have a faction specific Elite any more?

Any keyword change on vehicles? Do Kabals still have a monopoly on Ravagers? Can Covens grab a flier?

Iveseenit wrote:

HERO wrote:

Agonizer profile the same?
PGL still 3 points, Shock Prow 1?

Just finishing up my list here

yes agoniser is the same.  Generic succy relic is one that is +3 attacks version.

same pts for PGL and Prow

Thanks dude, you've been a massive help with this.  I'm on my phone now, have to pay wife tax.

4 pts per Agonizer still doesn't seem too bad, never has been.  The 70 point Archons both me a bit though, and the 10 man, and 5 man hard limit does make me a bit tilted.

Can't really fit in an Archon inside a transport so he can give his aura, and no bike options makes him a bit vulnerable on foot.

Can you tell us more about the Relics in particular for all Obsessions?  And unqiue Warlord traits? All generic relics would be great too,  Much thanks

Sounds like not really, unless you count the court models. I don't find the loss of trueborn to be terrible, just annoying. Basically means whether you're taking patrol or battalion, you're taking 2 archons per 3 kabalite warrior units, which makes the MSU approach a little more difficult. If we still had trueborn it would be 5 units in venoms per archon which would be a much better ratio in my mind.

Gorgon wrote:

Grots gained a wound, mentioned in BoLS vid

Edit: Oh and the cleaver is now -2 AP

Yeah I couldnt remember if they gained a wound or not.

FuelDrop wrote:

So... do Kabals have a faction specific Elite any more?

no

TheBaconPope wrote:

Any keyword change on vehicles? Do Kabals still have a monopoly on Ravagers? Can Covens grab a flier?

Ravager is Kabal only still. Didn't look at the tags on flyers, i think the same as before but unsure.

[quote="HERO"]

Iveseenit wrote:

Thanks dude, you've been a massive help with this.  I'm on my phone now, have to pay wife tax.

4 pts per Agonizer still doesn't seem too bad, never has been.  The 70 point Archons both me a bit though, and the 10 man, and 5 man hard limit does make me a bit tilted.

Can't really fit in an Archon inside a transport so he can give his aura, and no bike options makes him a bit vulnerable on foot.

Can you tell us more about the Relics in particular for all Obsessions?  And unqiue Warlord traits?  All generic relics would be great too,  Much thanks

Yeah man.

The 10 man I dont have too much troubel with as rhino's have the same issue. It would of been nice for the venom to have 6 though. Starweaver does so I dont see why venom does not.

I did the generic traits already up above. let me get the relics and traits out to ya.

Talos is still only T6 it seems... biggest disappointment.