This is my "Dead to me" list for this edition. I can go into detail to explain why if you like, but these will probably never see the light of day in any competitive list I run until we get a new dex or updates.
This is my "Welcome to the club" list. These I rarely if ever used in tournaments for 8th, and now will be used or be a staple for my lists.
Reapers Hornets Razorwing Flocks Beastmasters (this one would be on the never use list but needed for the flocks) Scourges Mandrakes (this unit solely for survivability and popping in late game for table quarters and siphoning/investigating objectives, etc..)
In case you are wondering.. A hornet is much faster, better save, doesn't degrade, has a str 6 instead of 5 disintegrator, can be taken in units of 3, 12" longer shooting range and quite a few more benefits for 3 less shots. 3 LESS shots. Hornet: 115 Points ravager: 160 Points.
Yeah, i am not taking a ravager again.
Ravagers are golden in 9th, so are Wracks. All my Comp lists i'm making currently has a 830pts Coven patrol,and the rest are 2 patrols of Kabal with 2 Ravagers and 1 Reaper. Some has 3 Ravagers, others with 3 Ravagers and a Reaper.
Wracks in PoF are a godsend to 9th for secondarys, and Ravagers went up so little compare to all other of our units that when looking at value in points compare to each other units, Ravagers are a net gain.
Also if you are going Wyches in ToS, just take Blaster Pistols, 5pts on them are a steal for wounding T7 on a 2+.
colinsherlow wrote:
Skulnbonz wrote:
In case you are wondering.. A hornet is much faster, better save, doesn't degrade, has a str 6 instead of 5 disintegrator, can be taken in units of 3, 12" longer shooting range and quite a few more benefits for 3 less shots. 3 LESS shots. Hornet: 115 Points ravager: 160 Points.
Yeah, i am not taking a ravager again.
Forgeworld will be updating points soon so a lot is likely to change
FW points are already leaked, just Youtube/Google it. Reaper is 150, Tantalus is still 400.
Crazy_Ivan Wych
Posts : 515 Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Wellingborough
Reapers do look a great option....sadly sold out on Forgeworld.
I keep waiting for the Reapers and Tantalus rules to be re-examined by GW.
It seems wrong that Ravagers are Kabal only, while Reapers can be Kabal/Cult/Coven; particularly if you look at funny interactions with An Esoteric Kill (allowing Reapers and Tantalus to character snipe) or No Method of Death (giving the same vehicles a double shoot).
Similarly, it makes no sense that Scourges can't be transported in Venoms or Raiders, but a Tantalus can potentially carry 16 Scourges.
Gelmir Sybarite
Posts : 344 Join date : 2018-01-06 Location : near Rotterdam
I have been using Reapers for a while, even when Ravagers were still better. I don't like the Ravager model, but love the Reaper. So I can't really be sad about Ravagers. Still, I wish that using a Reaper instead would still be a choice, not a necessity.
harlokin Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 142 Join date : 2013-07-24 Location : London
I have been using Reapers for a while, even when Ravagers were still better. I don't like the Ravager model, but love the Reaper. So I can't really be sad about Ravagers. Still, I wish that using a Reaper instead would still be a choice, not a necessity.
I thought I was alone in not liking the Ravager model....it's just lazy.
How painful is the Reaper to put together? I have heard horror stories abut how warped the resin can be.
Gelmir likes this post
amishprn86 Archon
Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio
I have been using Reapers for a while, even when Ravagers were still better. I don't like the Ravager model, but love the Reaper. So I can't really be sad about Ravagers. Still, I wish that using a Reaper instead would still be a choice, not a necessity.
I thought I was alone in not liking the Ravager model....it's just lazy.
How painful is the Reaper to put together? I have heard horror stories abut how warped the resin can be.
I made my own lol.
harlokin Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 142 Join date : 2013-07-24 Location : London
I have been using Reapers for a while, even when Ravagers were still better. I don't like the Ravager model, but love the Reaper. So I can't really be sad about Ravagers. Still, I wish that using a Reaper instead would still be a choice, not a necessity.
I thought I was alone in not liking the Ravager model....it's just lazy.
How painful is the Reaper to put together? I have heard horror stories abut how warped the resin can be.
It's not really a problem. Just put the parts in hot water and they will go back to the right shape. The sail was a little less willing, but I just put it in hot water and under a book after, and now it's flat as can be. Seriously, hot water is like magic for those parts.
And I don't like the Ravager because the bulky extra cannons make it not as streamlined anymore. Just looks dumb to me. :/
Crazy_Ivan Wych
Posts : 515 Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Wellingborough
They really need to amend Test of Skill to be just Monsters and Vehicles, without the 10 wound requirement. There's plenty of things that fall below that threshold that can now cause lots of problems. I'm looking at you, standard Dreads.
I agree on Ravagers being golden in this edition. I really do believe the edition is calibrated around 5 man Primaris squads. Anything that spits hurt like triple Disintegrators is going to be a clutch unit.
harlokin Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 142 Join date : 2013-07-24 Location : London
......that and I've been converting six of them, so there's a bit of wishful thinking.
I know the feeling! I've just got the first five of mine painted, so my Crusade list is certainly going to include them.
On the subject of infantry related mission things. What are people's thoughts on the 'Actions' and how best to achieve them considering our general fragility?
The whining and complaining is hilarious on here, honestly. All of you that want to sit and complain about "how we got screwed" or "our points went up" blah blah blah... Just stop. You can't change the points, you can't change the units, so complaining and whining does nothing. How about adding to the conversation about what makes our codex great and competitive.
I feel like Reapers are huge winners. Moving and shooting without penalty make them great in a DT detachment because rerolls from BH aren't needed as much.
I'm honestly surprised you aren't on board with 5 Scourge with 4 Shredders. Yes, they went up in cost (insert baby crying) but they put the hurt on units of infantry with 6+ models. Plus they can nab Secondaries with their inherent DS. They will be better once (if) we get Fire and Fade back.
Mandrakes are also awesome. Used them all of 8th and I think they are even more invaluable in 9th with Secondaries. Plus, they are one of our few units they can pull double duty well in shooting/CC.
I value Grotesques much higher than Talos right now. I think Talos are good, and the cost and the weapons and their durability are all nice. The one thing that hurts them is movement. With terrain being the way it is, Talos will be moving around terrain and being slow. Grotesques can just move straight through most things and have no problem charging. Grotesque movement helps them greatly with the new terrain rules. Talos, not so much. I know this isn't a common perception, but after playing 5+ games with Grotesques, it is nice to have the freedom and protection from the terrain.
I think Wracks in PoF are needed. I have ben running 10 to literally just sit and hold an objective. Then Black Cornucopians comes out if they are getting damaged.
Ravagers I feel are still very good. Dessies with BH Archon is still very viable. I have been thinking about FS but losing AoV (even without the reroll), the Writ, and the WL Trait seems like a high price. Plus, with FS you will want to take Venoms and to me Venoms are simply priced out of being used, even with the inherent rerolls FS gives. I have been transporting my 5 man squads in DT Raiders as the 5pt difference is negligible in comparison to the +5 wounds and Dmg 3 Dessie the Raider has.
I am anxious to look harder into the Wych units. Wyches as a whole I think are poor. I wish I liked Reavers, but I just don't know what they do. Their speed is very enticing, but when they get to somewhere, I don't think they will actually do anything. I mean, maybe a small squad to simply tie up a vehicle T1 to stop it from shooting? I guess?
Beasts are looking interesting, but am afraid of a couple of things. The need for Beast Masters and the need to take a Wych Detachment. Right now I am running BH, PoF, and DT detachments (real inventive) and not sure how Wyches help fill the gaps I need. I would not mind having a nice discussions about all of the Beasts. They do take advantage of the terrain well and are fast.
I don't think we are Doom and Gloom at all. We can still play to our strengths (Speed, damage) while taking advantage of the new terrain (the biggest change) and the missions. Our speed will be huge with missions. One of the best part too is we have the flexibility to change as the Meta does. If infantry start dominating we can change through our codex to match that. Monsters/Vehicles... we got that too. We will be in a fine place once all of the whining and complaining stops.
Sit down, look at the book, read the terrain rules, look at the point changes, and start being positive. Because points won't change for us anytime soon, so we are stuck with them. Same thing with the rules for 9th. We will adapt and be fine like we always have been.
The Reaper honestly hiliariously outclasses the Dark Lance Ravager now. 5 more points for a more durable frame, with more versatile weapons, that can get access to Kabal or Covens obsessions.
The whining and complaining is hilarious on here, honestly. All of you that want to sit and complain about "how we got screwed" or "our points went up" blah blah blah... Just stop. You can't change the points, you can't change the units, so complaining and whining does nothing. How about adding to the conversation about what makes our codex great and competitive.
I understand where you're coming from, but being completely dismissive isn't contributing to the conversation either. If you were honestly coming from a place of "let's make the conversation positive" you probably wouldn't have started your post by insulting a large chunk of people.
Other than that, I largely agree with you. I would just encourage you to have a little empathy as people process changes. People aren't complaining because they think they can change the game. They're complaining because they're coming to terms with the changes.
People have spent all kinds of time building, converting, painting, installing LEDs, creating backstories for the army, conceiving of themed lists, etc. Having some or all of that invalidated by an edition change can be frustrating even if it is inevitable.
Rather than preach about how much more superior you are to everyone complaining, why not just let people get it out of their system?
As repellent as you may find it, humans are going to continue to process change through a filter of human emotions. You can mock that as much as you like, just don't pretend you're part of the solution. Throwing negative emotional energy at what you perceive as negative emotional energy is pointless.
You've got to see the irony in whining about whining.
commandersasha, The Strange Dark One, konkorde, Gelmir and Swordxart like this post
I'm honestly surprised you aren't on board with 5 Scourge with 4 Shredders. Yes, they went up in cost (insert baby crying) but they put the hurt on units of infantry with 6+ models. Plus they can nab Secondaries with their inherent DS. They will be better once (if) we get Fire and Fade back.
I don't disagree, exccept that with SMs being almost half of all armies, auto bolters being free, and your Shredders limited to 12 inches, it makes things perilous. Regular deployment and movement seems like a perfectly fine solution. I can see a use for Shredder Scourges moving along and piecing up 2-3 IEQ squads a turn. I'm just skeptical about assuming they will get to DS where they want, fire and fade into an objective.
SCP Yeeman wrote:
I am anxious to look harder into the Wych units. Wyches as a whole I think are poor. I wish I liked Reavers, but I just don't know what they do. Their speed is very enticing, but when they get to somewhere, I don't think they will actually do anything. I mean, maybe a small squad to simply tie up a vehicle T1 to stop it from shooting? I guess?
Reavers are a toolbox unit. They can be tailored to do just about anything with the right weapon, cult and drug combo. The real issues with Reavers in this edition are not being able to claim cover (if that rumor is correct) and their upgrade threshold being 6 for a 2nd weapon upgrade. To take that 2nd Blaster, Heat Lance or Cluster Caltrop you have to be vulnerable to Blast weapons.
So I just started playing with some numbers. I have been a 1000 pt to 1250 pt player, Kabal, all in a Black Heart Batt, playing casual games vs my friends who have AdMech, Tau and Daemon/Thousand Sons armies (the last player has 2 armies and switches). Standard 2 Archon - one in Venom, 2 Gunboats each with 2x5 Kabalites, 3 Ravagers (all Dissi - I actually currently only own 2 models but Table Top Simulator has been helpful during lockdown!), and 5 Scourges, 4 with Haywire. I also have a Razorwing Jet model that I have never fielded due to points restrictions.
Now, they all have more than 2000 points worth of stuff, so when they play me, we play smaller. This edition seems to be the perfect opportunity to field a raiding party of 2 Kabal patrols (Flayed seems the way to go now) and 1 Wych patrol (Red Grief probably). I have nothing wych yet.
Ill post in the army building section of the forum at a later date, when all this is finalized later this month for proper advice but...
I am actually struggling to get up to 2000 points. I still have my 20 Kabalites across 2 patrols and 2 gunboats. Both archons. My original haywire scourges. My 2 ravagers. And I am accounting for a Succubus, 2x5 wych units (with shardnet/impailer in each) in probably 2 venoms, finally I can field the Razorwing, and maybe a squad of Jetbikes... and I am some 500 points short of 2000...
Clearly you guys field bigger armies, but I would love to know, what have you had to cut from your existing lists to bring them down to 2000 points? Because it seems 2000 pt is where all games NEED to be now with the detachment number limits.
Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon 
Fri Jul 17 2020, 04:51
