New Drukhari boxset announced

The movement, the predator smile, all Lelith Hesparax is here :


Honestly if it's a good model,that is not a drukhari and not Lelith.

I can't see myself fielding this piece of plastic that looks like she took too many combat drugs during the index times. As a self respecting Archon, I can't field her on my raids without prior visit at the conversion Haemonculus.

If the proportions are right, maybe the lower half can be saved by exchanging her legs with those from the Wyches of transport box. Otherwise, it will be a Jain Zar conversion with lots of green stuff.

The Strange Dark One wrote:

If the proportions are right, maybe the lower half can be saved by exchanging her legs with those from the Wyches of transport box. Otherwise, it will be a Jain Zar conversion with lots of green stuff.

I'd use the leg of a scourge, they are longer, are in a dynamic pose and one of them is barefoot, you just have to sand one toe claw down

man.....you guys are hard to please!!! lol
when i look at the new Lelith and the last one (not referring to the oldest ones), both pictures right next to the other, i infinitely love more the new one.
Far more dynamic, far more energic.
Agreed though, i'm not a big fan of the face, but i can easily deal with it.
The outfit is almost the same except for the little opening on the cleavage of her breast.

Also good to note here, we are now in 2021, the golden age of oversexualised character a-la Dead or Alive are done and far behind us. So don't expect to get sexually excited by your little plastic models that soon anymore, porno websites exists exactly for that purpose....or stick to your old models

As for the revealed box, it will only be a matter of price tag if it will sell or not, no matter what's in it.
I live in Canada and if i can purchase it for something like 240 can$ or lower, i'll jump on it to split it with one friend.
But if the box is like 300 can$, no matter if the models were actually THAT good, if there is no money deal to make with those boxes, why would i buy one?

I agree that i'm not SUPER hyped by the reveals, but i'm happy nonetheless.....ho! and btw, i do not own a Lelith model already, so indeed i may be biased when i say that i prefer the new one And i recon that it's all about a question of taste so no offense here!

Kalmah wrote:

man.....you guys are hard to please!!! lol
when i look at the new Lelith and the last one (not referring to the oldest ones), both pictures right next to the other, i infinitely love more the new one.

Tastes are different.

Kalmah wrote:

Also good to note here, we are now in 2021, the golden age of oversexualised character a-la Dead or Alive are done and far behind us. So don't expect to get sexually excited by your little plastic models that soon anymore, porno websites exists exactly for that purpose....or stick to your old models

Don't take it personally, but this way of argumentation is unfair. You have seen the reasons here, don't make up your own reason why people disagree with you and argue against your self-made reason. The arguments are not about too much cloth. She is even more closed on the backside, we did know way longer than the front and the negativity only came when the front was shown. The whole miniature looks too bulky, at least in the pictures shown. I don't know what other things you know, but to go a completely different example then your porn one. If you think of antagonists of Avatar the Last Airbender she looks like a female version of the Boulder. Her pose is even close to him shortly before he got defeated by Toph. She should have been more like a grimdark version of Asula, a leaner sleeker model would have been more fitting. Don't know if it helps you understand the opposite position, but I am pretty sure you got it wrong before. At least I dislike the model not because of the pants.

Kalmah wrote:

As for the revealed box, it will only be a matter of price tag if it will sell or not, no matter what's in it.
I live in Canada and if i can purchase it for something like 240 can$ or lower, i'll jump on it to split it with one friend.
But if the box is like 300 can$, no matter if the models were actually THAT good, if there is no money deal to make with those boxes, why would i buy one?

Another website calculated the value inside, it is close to blood of the phoenix. Don't know what it costed in can$, but I guess the new box will be similar.

Kalmah wrote:

man.....you guys are hard to please!!! lol
when i look at the new Lelith and the last one (not referring to the oldest ones), both pictures right next to the other, i infinitely love more the new one.
Far more dynamic, far more energic.
Agreed though, i'm not a big fan of the face, but i can easily deal with it.
The outfit is almost the same except for the little opening on the cleavage of her breast.

Also good to note here, we are now in 2021, the golden age of oversexualised character a-la Dead or Alive are done and far behind us. So don't expect to get sexually excited by your little plastic models that soon anymore, porno websites exists exactly for that purpose....or stick to your old models

Who says over oversexualised is a bad thing? I know a couple sex workers that are happy Onlyfans is becoming mainstream and they are finally able to be public about it without everyone questioning their judgments and willing to have a real talk with them instead of at them. You also have to look at the men too, no one says anything about buff 1/2 naked men, why is it ok for them and not women? Now are all Wyches/DE sexualized? No if so then I would maybe agree with you but its only a few models and men are part of that too. Heck the 3rd Reavers men riders had assless chaps on and Mandrakes men had nipple rings. Its a army that tortures others for 100's of years and forcing them into a living hell, but Sex is bad.....

Am I hard to please? No, but there is a certain level of quality I expect to see from GW for a $40 single model. There are many other companies out there that has better sculpted miniatures compare to this one (and many of the female characters).


Imagine if Legolas turned into Geralt, would that be ok? No it would not. This is on the same level of old Lelith to new Lelith, it doesn't match up and with her bad sculpt, GW should have just stuck with her fluff.

Kalmah wrote:

Also good to note here, we are now in 2021, the golden age of oversexualised character a-la Dead or Alive are done and far behind us. So don't expect to get sexually excited by your little plastic models that soon anymore, porno websites exists exactly for that purpose....

Well, it's 2021, and you shouldn't make assumptions about who likes Lelith the way she was or why we like her like that...

amishprn86 wrote:

Who says over oversexualised is a bad thing?

Honestly, Kalmah just says that it's over, not that it's either good or bad.
Also they're specifically talking about oversxualisation in regards to characters/models in games (the examples being video- and board/miniature-games). A place where unnecessary oversexualisation is rampant and a problem (seeing as how it overwhelmingly affects female models, thus playing into and enforcing existing sexism in the hobby/culture which in turn makes it harder for potential newcomers, from a broader spectrum of people, to feel welcomed and appreciated into the hobby).
Which is a different conversation from the one you bring up about sex workers.

amishprn86 wrote:

no one says anything about buff 1/2 naked men, why is it ok for them and not women?

Because of uneven power dynamics.
We live in a world that favors men over women in a lot of ways, some of them obvious and several of them subtle or hard to see/notice. Sexuality is no exception (indeed, maybe the most obvious areas of all, that this applies to).
Therefore sexualising the male body is ”kicking upwards” (doing something directed towards a person in a position of power), while sexualising the female body becomes an act of re-presenting, or playing along with, existing, harmful structures in our society. Structures that effectively work to make life harder for women and female-coded people, and to keep them down in several ways.

Of course these kinds of structures also hurt men, but mostly in different ways. And most importantly there is a difference in history. The sexualisation, objectification, and commodification, of the female body goes Way back in history (as does the power position of the male). Meaning that when we sexualise female-coded bodies we tap into a long history of suffering, slavery and oppression that still lives on today. While when we sexualise men it is an act of rebellion toward, and often subversion of, the structures that bind us.

amishprn86 wrote:

Heck the 3rd Reavers men riders had assless chaps on and Mandrakes men had nipple rings.

Yes, the old 3e range leaned in a lot more to the bdsm/fetisch-theme of the army, and while most of that went away with the 5e rework, the rework did also give us whips as agonisers, and armor that's fastened to the user by hooks going into their flesh.

amishprn86 wrote:

Its a army that tortures others for 100's of years and forcing them into a living hell, but Sex is bad....

No one's saying sex is bad. Oversexualisation, in spaces where it does more harm than good, where it is more harmful than constructive, is bad. You can be sex-positive and still criticize sexism (in fact the two usually go hand-in-hand)

Anyway. I really like the new model. I like it more every time I see it, actually.
But I am a fan of all Lelith models that has been.
The old 3e one is a great design, because who doesn't love dominatrix-batman? But I really can do without the pin-up model pose and figure.
The current one I like because of how realistic the sculpt is in its anatomy and depiction of an athletic, but slim, body. It really is a fantastic sculpt of what someone like her would look like. (I remember, at the time it came out, people criticizing it for not looking ”beautiful enough”, compared to her artwork, but I think people grew to like it in time).
The new one I like, because it's got a bit of flair to it, and it depicts aggression in a way that I think has a place in the death-loving, blood-soaked, act of gladiatorial murder. Even if Lelith is traditionally depicted as more serene, and more recently depicted as having a lot of fun in her work, I think it might become repetetive or tedious if all our characters were shown as calm, or cold. And serenity is better suited for depiction in the more removed characters such as Vect and Malys (so maybe se it as an investment for the future? Leaving real-estate in regards to facial expressions, for models to come (hopefully)?)
And I just love that chain whip on her hip. It looks so useful, and dangerous

The box set really doesnt excite me ATM. If Wyches get to be the glass-cannon melee unit that we hope for, maybe I could use the extra bodies.

Honestly, we need more leaks/reveals! I trawled the internet last weekend and couldent find squat.

I'd just settle for a confirmed release date atm for the codex.

fisheyes wrote:

Honestly, we need more leaks/reveals! I trawled the internet last weekend and couldent find squat.

Which is part of the reason this worries me.
If they had all these neat, fun, new rules and abilities, they would be teasing it to entice players to start collecting them.

Instead we get crickets, because "Hellions went down by a point!" isn't going to get the fanbase too rabid, is it?

Skulnbonz wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

Honestly, we need more leaks/reveals! I trawled the internet last weekend and couldent find squat.

Which is part of the reason this worries me.
If they had all these neat, fun, new rules and abilities, they would be teasing it to entice players to start collecting them.

Instead we get crickets, because "Hellions went down by a point!" isn't going to get the fanbase too rabid, is it?

Codex rules aren't really teased more than a week in advance of preorder these days. That might be a bit different for us given our delayed release (they might preview them later this month when we were originally meant to release), but the current lack of rules teases isn't an indication of anything.

first i want to apologize to anyone i may have offended with my comments.
I think you really got me wrong, as i was only replying to people who were angry that we were not seeing enough skin (just read the entirety of the topic and you will find some).
I've never said a thing against people ranting about the foots, the grinning face (i even agree on that point), the muscular body, nothing like that, only the fact that people wanted to see more skin....no big deal here. And its also my right to declare that i prefer the new model to the older, and its all yours to declare the opposite, as stated in the last sentence of my post: its all a question of taste. I wasnt arguing at all.

My point is, even if it is a ''mature'' game, its still a game that want to capture a younger audience, so the oversexualisation (or whatever you call that) does not have its place anymore in this game.
I'm pretty confident that soon enough we will have homosexual characters, transgender characters etc....(if not already) even if this does not bring a thing to the table game at all, this may catch the attention of a broader audience and thus increase the player base. Some may feel bother by that, but that's the way our society is growing right now.

again, sorry if i vexed any of you.

I'm going to wait until I see the new Lelith model in person before I can cast any lasting opinions. But, still I think the she has been characterized as Agile rather than Strong. Even the rules support this but giving her superlative reflexes not improved strength and her armor piercing is the ability to exploit weakpoints, not powering through them. So I do think her muscle tone should be Lithe not Strong. Although, I do not think her muscularity as of yet, pictures and preview video pan, are enough to cause me to her muscle would be too pronounced.

On the topic of oversexualisation my opinion is moot as I'm a part of its target audience. I like it. But to be fair Heamonculous Covens are oversexualized too. Them Wracks be beefcakes and as far as I know Muscles appeal to those who are sexually interested in the "male" physique. Not everyone who are interested place a high priority to the size of the muscles, but neither do all who are interested in the "female" physique place a high priority on the size of "female" breasts or buttocks. I think people place their preferences where they may and more power to them. At least the Dark Eldar range does have examples on many sides of the aisle. Not unlike the recent revamped Slaanesh range. But I think representation range will never be equal. AoS Khornites are an actual army of musclemen and to those who value that in a sexual sense they might as well be a army of bikini warriors of the stereotypical "fanservice" army.

Oversexualisation, to me, isin't the issue, it's Gamesworkshop's attempt to appeal to a younger than teenage audience. The warhammer universes, Fantasy, 40K and AoS are all epitomes of horrible. Violent beyond imagination. They should not be targeted at a young audience. Teens are lost causes anyway. I was, and so were the kids in my grade when we reached junior high. Rare were the puritans among us that din't find ways to sneak peak sex or violence out of curiosity. The game already glorifies violence. I my opinion the game should be played people who are able to resist taking too much influence of the themes in it. Just like violent and/or movies, games or media in general. But then again my opinion holds very little sway. I just want the sexiness to be a level playing field. Sexy to everyone! (Disclaimer, no underage nonsense. Ever.)

PS. I'm reserved about the chances of our rework, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

for my part, i'm totally fine with oversexualized characters (be it male or female), its just that the society, as it is right now, with all the social medias, asks everyone to be more puritan than the pope.

Now that i think about it, is there, like in videogames or music, a classification stating if its a ''mature'' rated game or a game for ''everyone'' for Warhammer?
Could it be that because they don't have this kind of notification, they have some pressure to tone down a little bit the violence and sexyness? i'm pretty sure they don't want to add this label cause this would make them lose some younger customer (damn capitalism).
With this label i'm pretty sure they could do almost anything that they want.

Instead of another doom and gloom post, I am going to make a list of changes that would make me a happy, excited Dark Eldar player if they are in the new codex.

1. Reaver Jetbikes.  They are not as shooty as their eldar cousins, and not nearly as powerful in HTH as shining spears. Eldar bikes beat DE bikes in every way.  So instead of making them expensive HTH units, or fragile shooting units, lets play to a different strength... speed.
The lore has them flying through cities, lopping heads off of people as they whiz by.  Keep them as they are, but grant all reaver jetbikes the Evicerating Flyby rule as standard, not a stratagem.  They could have a stratagem for +1 to the roll if you would like.  This would be a decent weapon against Necrons stupid 5+ come back from the dead rule.

2. Hellions.  The unit that has no place in the army. Not as fast or resilient as jetbikes, nowhere near as nasty at shooting as scourges, not as survivable in HTH as Incubi (and hit like a wet noodle in comparrison). So what would make me happy? a 4++ invul jink save against shooting. 1 special/heavy weapon per unit. -1 AP in hth. A roll of a 6 in HTH counts as a decapitating strike, -4 ap and +1 damage.  Also, they need the slashing impact power as standard.
Still a VERY fragile unit, but hits hard, especially against infantry.

Wyches. a 4++ invul against ALL attacks when in engagement range of an enemy. No more instant death from pistols. -1 AP in hth. A roll of a 6 in HTH counts as a decapitating strike, -4 ap and +1 damage.
Thats it. That is all they need to make me happy with them. (along with the new raider rules)

Scourges- Make any weapon they hold count as assault. Add in a disintegrator. they can have a dark lance, why not a dissie? (if GW is feeling managamous, i would be ecstatic with the old Jump Shoot Jump rule!)

Venoms/Raiders- Let units onboard disembark after they move. This is done at the end of the movement phase.  Venoms need +1 capacity.

Beasts- Khymerae need to be 4++ and have FNP.  flocks are fine. Clawed fiends need to have a "Roll a dice at the end of your command phase for each wound a fiend has. on a 5+, the wound is healed". Lower the cost to about 25 points.

Court of the Archon.  Count as a single unit of 1-9 models, mixed any way you wish. This counts as a single unit with the Archon. (kinda like drones for tau)

Beastmaster- Move this guy to the HQ slot, and give him some weapon options and better aura if near beasts.

Cronos. Ugh. I would treat this guy as a res orb for coven units.  Not much else could be done with it, and right now it is about useless except as a bag of wounds.


The above, along with a few tweaks here and there to auras, etc would make me very happy.

Skulnbonz, i'm all in with you on every point you mentioned!
Especially in regards to the reavers and hellions, they definitely should have the stated stratagems included in their datasheet.

In terms of GW target age range I'd say it is Kids/ teenagers etc simply because of the simple marketing principle of if you get someone into something at a young age they are more likely to stick with it. I bet most of the people here started WH from a young age. Proof of GW's view is their new Warhammer in schools post on the Warhammer community.

As for all these talk of model sexualisation etc I think it's simple. The model should follow the fuff/ background they have, it should be true to that. I think there's a very good reason say Slannesh miniatures have breasts yet they are demons and sisters of battle do not have a thigh or ankle in sight dispite being Sci-fi warrior women, they are nuns. Do I think a wych would walk about without wearing much yes and so should a model reflect that yes probably. If GW doesn't want that then change the narrative. Otherwise you get a model one could argue doesn't suit the fluff. If they released sisters of battle in bikinis I'd say that's stupid. If they released wyches in bikinis I'd assume the gladiator areas have central heating. but it would suit the expectation of the model.

@Skulnbonz, I think you are pretty close! Those extra damage mechanics are exactly what I am thinking. However, I doubt we will get any buffs to toughness. If anything, I see Coven units getting away from the "tough as nails" to another mechanic. Cant imagine what, but hopefully we will find out this month!

fisheyes wrote:

@Skulnbonz, I think you are pretty close! Those extra damage mechanics are exactly what I am thinking. However, I doubt we will get any buffs to toughness. If anything, I see Coven units getting away from the "tough as nails" to another mechanic. Cant imagine what, but hopefully we will find out this month!

maybe instead of being tough as nail, they could fill the role of healer/reanimator in our army.
To reanimate could be really interesting if we were to become glass canon again:
kill, be killed, reanimate, repeat, etc...
If what was leaked happens to become true (being able to combine in the same detachment units from Coven, Cult and Kabal) that would become really interesting.

Right now the subfactions follow the typical archetypes of ranged damage, melee damage, and tank.  I guess I could see Coven evolving more into a support archetype, offering buffs and debuffs that would make Kabal and Wych Cult deadlier.  Take the new DG contagion for example:



You may be able to implement something along these lines: a Wrack unit could cause -1T to a melee unit and the Wyches benefit from that in the combat.  I'm doubtful of anything too useful, however, as the interactions with Aeldari soup need to be considered.

Some nice ideas @Skulnbonz.
Just two things I want to add.

Skulnbonz wrote:

Court of the Archon.  Count as a single unit of 1-9 models, mixed any way you wish. This counts as a single unit with the Archon. (kinda like drones for tau)

Tau drones are in a separate unit to the commander. And a 10 men unit with the character keyword sounds like alot of errata needed. A wish that could theoretically be fulfilled would be more something similar to the lych guards guardian protocols.

Skulnbonz wrote:

Cronos. Ugh. I would treat this guy as a res orb for coven units.  Not much else could be done with it, and right now it is about useless except as a bag of wounds.

If i would write the code I would just make it that a Cronos can be part of a Talos unit, nothing complex here. 2 Taloi and a Cronos as one unit would be cheaper then 3 Taloi. In exchange for raw damage output the unit would get a reroll 1 to wound and a self heal and the opponent would have to kill the cronos before getting to the more expensive Taloi.

@Oaka, that is a dangerous proposal. Having gone through this cycle before, it would likely end up being a "-1 leadership", which we all know is just GREAAAAT

fisheyes wrote:

@Oaka, that is a dangerous proposal. Having gone through this cycle before, it would likely end up being a "-1 leadership", which we all know is just GREAAAAT

Perhaps we could also bring back everyone's favourite mechanic from 7th edition - Soulfire.

fisheyes wrote:

@Oaka, that is a dangerous proposal. Having gone through this cycle before, it would likely end up being a "-1 leadership", which we all know is just GREAAAAT

Haha!

Soulless Samurai wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

@Oaka, that is a dangerous proposal. Having gone through this cycle before, it would likely end up being a "-1 leadership", which we all know is just GREAAAAT

Perhaps we could also bring back everyone's favourite mechanic from 7th edition - Soulfire.

Hahaha xD