Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

Gelmir wrote:

To be fair, the only reason I can think of for Kabalites to get an extra attack, is if it's an army-wide +1A, and Kabalites are simply not an exception.
Since 9th came out, I've basically been neglecting my entire army. It has been in a box, waiting for our 9th edition codex to make it worth opening the box again. I really hope the codex succeeds in that, or I'll just lose motivation to put energy in this game at all. So far, I'm not getting the feeling that it will.

I'd like to believe so, but Incubi didn't get an attack increase.....

Gelmir wrote:

To be fair, the only reason I can think of for Kabalites to get an extra attack, is if it's an army-wide +1A, and Kabalites are simply not an exception.
Since 9th came out, I've basically been neglecting my entire army. It has been in a box, waiting for our 9th edition codex to make it worth opening the box again. I really hope the codex succeeds in that, or I'll just lose motivation to put energy in this game at all. So far, I'm not getting the feeling that it will.

yeah im struggling to find motivation as well atm and this coupled with the new Lelith is not helping at all ^_^

i mean all the codexes till now have been pretty much crazy in terms of strength, can you imagine if the first Xenos codex of the new edition sucks balls...?

Crunched some numbers for the new Cannon:



Moving versus stationary only makes a difference for infantry carriers, obviously. Big take home message, to me, is that this is substantially better at range and versus Marines, but it's also worse against a lot of single-wound models.

Feels very much like mostly sidegrade territory without any additional buffs.

Nice analysis.

Hopefully, this is more to do with differentiating the cannon from the twin rifle, which would keep more of the old role.

harlokin wrote:

Nice analysis.

Hopefully, this is more to do with differentiating the cannon from the twin rifle, which would keep more of the old role.

Which isn't really ideal when you've got both bolted to the same craft.

I know our faction are dark & edgy but jesus the negativity & cynicism in here. All hope is not lost, the Incubi profile was pretty sick and this preview being a mixed bag is not the end.

I personally am stoked to see them make the Kab more 'elite' with 2 attacks and a 4+ save. It never felt right for them to be like a Guardsman. Hopefully they have also done something to the splinter rifle.

The splinter cannon though, being heavy 3 seems like a huge mistake. Instantly it's questionable on Kabalites, unless foot Kabalites become a thing. Definitely feel like it could've been Assault 3 or Assault 4 without being overpowered.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

harlokin wrote:

Nice analysis.

Hopefully, this is more to do with differentiating the cannon from the twin rifle, which would keep more of the old role.

Which isn't really ideal when you've got both bolted to the same craft.

Yeah, but it's not as if Venoms haven't been used on 'dual duty', with cannon/twin rifle clearing chaff and Blaster/Blast Pistol for vehicles....I feel like I'm clutching at straws though

I have a niggling suspicion that GW have changed the Drukhari in a major way [one that will hopefully give us a fighting chance in 9th edition]. They mention " Kabalites have always looked to close with their prey, and now they’re even more capable of swift and bloody close combat than before." Which is news to anyone who has ever played kabalites...before. This is 9th edition. I foresee a whole new Drukhari in our future. What if the new codex makes us WANT to be in close combat? What if Power from Pain has been changed so that all Drukhari in engagement range get a 4++ like Wyches? The negative comments so far on here are understandable given GW's past underwhelming peformance with our codices, but they are also based on how the army played BEFORE.
I suspect [hope] that we will see combos of Power from Pain/combat drugs/stratagems which will make some of our units unstoppable while they are 'close enough to smell their fear'.
Remember, this is 9th edition [have I mentioned that already?]. Changes are coming and they are likely much bigger than you think.

Exactly what i was thinking Archon Archie! not the way we will play in the future, but the point: we will have to take EVERYTHING into consideration before saying that sucks or stuff like that. Especially for a faction that is supposed to be played by elite players.....so its not our base stats that do our game.
After all, competitive players are always: but if you add that stratagem and put that HQ close to it, it becomes impossible to beat!!! (Leviathan Dreadnought anyone?? at base they are ok units, but with the right build they become unstoppable).
So at first sight everything is meh at best, and i understand the disappointment, but i hope you understand we only saw 2 data sheets and one weapon profile.......

Kalmah wrote:

Especially for a faction that is supposed to be played by elite players.....so its not our base stats that do our game.

What.

I must admit i also think this article is a really mixed bag and whoever wrote it was not helping. Especially for me as in my local meta a lot wound 1 infantry is still running around. And as the wound 2 troop codices are all out now in the long run we all should see more wound 1 units with almost every new codex. So I personally would have liked rapid-fire 3 damage 1 more then heavy 3 damage 2.

Splinter cannon scourges or Taloi are most likely dead for now and I fear a little, how splinter rifles will look like so that the 10 points to replace twin splinter rifles on Venoms sounds like a worthy option.

By the way, it is not meant as a preview for our codex, it is just here as Kabalites got reboxed and the new datasheets in there will soon be shown on the web, so GW was just faster than the leaks. That is why we did not see any real interesting bits and we will most likely see nothing more in the next updates. Could be that there is a bigger picture missing, but the writer of the article should have been aware of the target group and what they already know, so if that is true at least the writer is really bad at his job. Let's hope it is the article writer and not the rule writers, even though I would not bet on it.

Still, I think the next reveals will be about the other reboxed units.

Archon Archie wrote:

I have a niggling suspicion that GW have changed the Drukhari in a major way [one that will hopefully give us a fighting chance in 9th edition]. They mention " Kabalites have always looked to close with their prey, and now they’re even more capable of swift and bloody close combat than before."

How do explain then the change from rapid-fire to heavy? You could still be right, but with the little details we know right now, it looks more like they will not exactly play as promised. Marketing says they will be glass cannons, rule designers increase the armor save, marketing says they want to move close, rule designers change weapons to heavy. It looks more like one hand does not know what the other is doing.

Koldan wrote:

By the way, it is not meant as a preview for our codex, it is just here as Kabalites got reboxed and the new datasheets in there will soon be shown on the web, so GW was just faster than the leaks.

I didn't pick up on this. I guess we might not see more reveals this week then

What other units got repackaged? Was it just scourge and venoms?

@koldan wrote;
How do explain then the change from rapid-fire to heavy? You could still be right, but with the little details we know right now, it looks more like they will not exactly play as promised. Marketing says they will be glass cannons, rule designers increase the armor save, marketing says they want to move close, rule designers change weapons to heavy. It looks more like one hand does not know what the other is doing.

All of the above would be absolutely spot-on IF splinter cannons were primarily hauled across the battlefield by skinny space elves on foot. Every splinter cannon in my army is mounted on a vehicle [venom] which doesn't get -1 to hit when moving and firing heavy weapons. I suspect the guys at GW have spotted that most kabalite units in use are kept mobile - 5 guys, one has a blaster/shredder. The new codex will likely reflect this recognition. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find kabalites no longer had the option to even have a heavy weapon.

Archon Archie wrote:

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find kabalites no longer had the option to even have a heavy weapon.

I would be surprised, given they showed it on one in this very article...

Archon Archie wrote:

What if the new codex makes us WANT to be in close combat?

No thank you i like my ravagers, razorwings, reapers, venoms and whatnot far away from the enemy doing what our damn faction is supposed to do in the lore. Strike fast from the shadows and disappear before the enemy knows what hit them. Please i dont want another semi-elite close combat army i leave that to the halrequins

GreyArea wrote:

Archon Archie wrote:

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find kabalites no longer had the option to even have a heavy weapon.

I would be surprised, given they showed it on one in this very article...

Doh!

Is anyone else wondering what they're going to do with Disintegrator Cannons now? Because as it stands, Splinter cannons have now been turned into 3 shot, 2 damage, 36" guns with a bit of AP...which is eerily similar.

I can see what they're going for here...kinda. A longstanding complaint about the SC is that it's basically just a splinter rifle with a bit more range and more shots. And that's something that isn't a problem here. But the fact that it's heavy really limits its potential synergy with our play style. If it was assault, I could see it turning a Talos into a decent dedicated elite killer at close range, complimenting a fast paced Kabalite assault, or even turning a squad of Scourges into a budget Ravager with deep strike. But as written, the way to use this weapon on infantry is to camp in some cover and plink shots off using its decent range. What an excellent compliment to our fast paced mechanized army!

This, and the random extra attack on Kabalites, kinda hints at greater problem I've been noticing. GW seemingly wants us to be a close ranged assault army. It's the only way to explain the weird fixation they have with making Kabal units needlessly focused on close quarters, or the fact that PfP is almost invariably focused on melee. And, as hamfisted as their execution is, I'm a fan of that concept! I want my army to careen towards the enemy at lightning speed, eager to see the petrified looks of both surprise and utter terror on their prey. That's awesome!

The problem is that GW similarly seems unwilling to make changes that would turn that concept into a coherent product. Why do Kabalites, ostensibly close assault troops, sport 24" rifles identical to standard lasguns save for an unimaginative poison rule? You want them to get in close? Give them tools that make that worthwhile! Cut the range on the rifle, turn it to assault 3, give it a bit extra punch. Kabalites now only do damage up close, but have access to transports who can reliably and quickly get them there. That's synergy! Make their weapon options run with this. Cut ranges, increase firepower, ensure that units have access to the tools they need to get in close. Come up with a concept and follow through.

But...they don't do that. Doing that would require rewriting profiles for most weapons. And we know that takes more effort than a simple ctrl+c ctrl+v from the previous codex. Why am I certain that darklight weapons are going to be Strength 8, AP -4? Because that's what they were in the 8th edition codex. Why was it like that in the 8th edition codex? Because that's how it was in the index. And why was it like that in the index? Because they were S8 in 7th, and someone decided that the Lance rule would translate to an extra point of AP when hastily translating every profile in the entire game to a new system, probably figuring future designers would come up with something more interesting when they had more time. We know how that out. When GW actually decides to modify one of our profiles, they do it in the most dull ways possible. One more point of damage on Klaives. An extra 2" of movement on infantry. Slightly improved armor and melee on Kabalites. Yawn. When they do radically change something, like the Splinter Cannon, they do it in a way that minimizes their investment of effort. In this case, take a Heavy Bolter, knock two points of strength off, replace them with the poison rule that's hasn't been touched in four editions. Uninspired. Pitifully so.

Look, I'm one foot out of the door on the hobby already. If this codex isn't fun (not competitive, not powerful, not tournament viable, fun), it probably marks the end of my active participation with the game and models.

Burnage wrote:

Feels very much like mostly sidegrade territory without any additional buffs.

Yes, but isn't this the codex that's supposed to lift us up to the level of the other factions, with their kickass weapons, scores of troop choices, and unfettered rules? This is just 'a bit of a tweak' that is supposed to send us mad with joy, for some reason, as if we were a pack of pavlovian dogs who can't figure out for ourselves when something is actually good and when it isn't.

Oh, I know. Wait for the codex, this is only a peek, it will all make sense in context, yadda yadda. We've been hearing that same song for 10 years, and it's understandable if we're a little cranky.

Kalmah wrote:

Exactly what i was thinking Archon Archie! not the way we will play in the future, but the point: we will have to take EVERYTHING into consideration before saying that sucks or stuff like that. Especially for a faction that is supposed to be played by elite players.....so its not our base stats that do our game.
After all, competitive players are always: but if you add that stratagem and put that HQ close to it, it becomes impossible to beat!!! (Leviathan Dreadnought anyone?? at base they are ok units, but with the right build they become unstoppable).
So at first sight everything is meh at best, and i understand the disappointment, but i hope you understand we only saw 2 data sheets and one weapon profile.......

Your insistence upon relentless optimism and a positive outlook is offensive to the identity-based cynical belief system of my socially constructed rebellious culture.

Kabalites got a huge boost with an extra attack and a 4+ armor, no reason to complain about anything here. Other codices saw similar upgrades or changes and NO points increase. Even if we went from 8 to 9 points, Kabalites are still good and now, even better. I don't see the reason to complain about anything here. If you are projecting, that's just silly. Take the information you have and use it, trying to project the rest of the codex from just Warrior release is useless. The Warrior statline is a straight upgrade.

The Splinter Cannon is also a nice change. Making it Heavy has no effect on vehicles for BS purposes, and people rarely ran them in Warrior squads anyway. Losing out on a potential of 3 shots to have more powerful and damage dealing is just like anything else you need to do, balance it with what it isn't doing. If they are now 2 dmg and 3 shots, find some AI shots to counteract it. Making it Strength 3 is actually a really huge boost for us and overall is all poison weapons gain a strength characteristic. No more wounding Gretchin and Nurglings on 4s? Yes please! T5 vehicles like certain walkers, ATVs, or weapon platforms are now wounded on 5s, not 6s because of our strength value. It is a major deal gaining a strength value on our poison, it helps us out quite a bit.

And again, everything we have seen... all 2 datasheets will end up working out. The sky isn't falling, it is changing, like it does everytime our codex changes. Overall, we have gotten better with huge boosts to Incubi who just shred, and kabalites who are able to survive and fight better. Splinter Cannons have changed, and we are yet to see who and what can take them and their cost. So far, GW has made good on their promise of making us deadlier with all 3 previews. There is no reason to think the other leaks and our codex will not follow suit.

SCP Yeeman wrote:

Kabalites got a huge boost with an extra attack and a 4+ armor, no reason to complain about anything here. Other codices saw similar upgrades or changes and NO points increase. Even if we went from 8 to 9 points, Kabalites are still good and now, even better. I don't see the reason to complain about anything here. If you are projecting, that's just silly. Take the information you have and use it, trying to project the rest of the codex from just Warrior release is useless. The Warrior statline is a straight upgrade.

The Splinter Cannon is also a nice change. Making it Heavy has no effect on vehicles for BS purposes, and people rarely ran them in Warrior squads anyway. Losing out on a potential of 3 shots to have more powerful and damage dealing is just like anything else you need to do, balance it with what it isn't doing. If they are now 2 dmg and 3 shots, find some AI shots to counteract it. Making it Strength 3 is actually a really huge boost for us and overall is all poison weapons gain a strength characteristic. No more wounding Gretchin and Nurglings on 4s? Yes please! T5 vehicles like certain walkers, ATVs, or weapon platforms are now wounded on 5s, not 6s because of our strength value. It is a major deal gaining a strength value on our poison, it helps us out quite a bit.

And again, everything we have seen... all 2 datasheets will end up working out. The sky isn't falling, it is changing, like it does everytime our codex changes. Overall, we have gotten better with huge boosts to Incubi who just shred, and kabalites who are able to survive and fight better. Splinter Cannons have changed, and we are yet to see who and what can take them and their cost.  So far, GW has made good on their promise of making us deadlier with all 3 previews. There is no reason to think the other leaks and our codex will not follow suit.

Thank you for this calm, measured analysis.  It’s been surprising by how negative a lot of the reactions here have been to one side grade and one upgrade.  I’m reminded by how negative the initial reaction to the changes to DG Disgustingly Resilient  was (please go back and look at the Reddit Competitive 40k sub if you can’t fathom people reacting negatively to an obvious buff).  But once people saw the whole book and began, you know, actually playing games with it, it becomes apparent how good it is.  Same with the Necron codex.  People were initially down on it because it wasn’t obviously as broken as some things in the Marine book.  But it’s a very complex book that has a lot of great synergy that isn’t readily apparent at first glance.  So far the trend in ninth is every army has gotten objectively better at PLAYING NINTH EDITION.   Not eighth, sixth, or fifth, or some past glory days of yester-year edition.  But ninth edition.  The stats for Incubi and Kabalites are objectively better.  And we haven’t even seen what, if any new abilities, they’ll gain on their full data sheet.  The Splinter Cannon change is a lateral move but, again, I’ll reserve judgment until I see the full book.  Something that might be useful for all of us to do until we have the new book in hand.  It’s crazy talk, I know, but maybe the “ I KNEW IT!!!” overreactions are a bit premature at this juncture.

Someone mentioned earlier that this reveal is being done because they're reboxing Kabalite Warriors.

If that's the case, is it safe to assume that anything not mentioned here has stated the same?

e.g. Blasters and Dark Lances are still Damage 1d6, splinter rifles and pistols still aren't worth the paper they're printed one, the Agoniser might as well offer free massages etc.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Someone mentioned earlier that this reveal is being done because they're reboxing Kabalite Warriors.

If that's the case, is it safe to assume that anything not mentioned here has stated the same?

I don't think that would be a safe to say.
One stat line and one weapon profile seems pretty in line with the amount of information that's usually shown in these preview-articles.
They even mention something about picking up a new box of your own to check out the stats, in the end of the article. Kind of a neat way to make some hype/advertisment for a simple reboxing, I'd say.


Intriguing reveals!
Most of my thoughts have already been expressed, better than I ever could, by several brilliant posters in this thread already.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it all comes together once we find out more of the surrounding rules! Especially curious about how/if the poison weapon rule has changed.
(I'm holding out a fool's hope that it will be a Mortal Wounds-adder, rather than the, in my mind, quite outdated "always wound on X"-mechanic. I'm fully aware that this is not very likely, but it is fun to dream ^^)

Count Adhemar wrote:

Begun, the moan wars have.

This for real made me laugh out loud. Much appreciated ^_^


PS:

GreyArea wrote:

What other units got repackaged? Was it just scourge and venoms?

Looking at the other thead it seems wyches also. But Warriors are not seen in those pics, so there might be a couple more.

Man, there are some hot takes in here...

I don't disagree that having extra attacks on warriors is likely mostly useless, but the reactions did give me a chuckle. Take away trueborn? Rage. Give warriors trueborn stats? Rage.

I like the splinter cannon change. Venoms in 5th could play cagey, delivering their full firepower at 36", while minimizing retaliation. I've never liked the dive-and-die playstyle that venoms have had ever since. -1 to hit isn't that good when the volume of return fire overwhelms it anyway.

Venoms can go back to being mobile bunkers for cheap, late game objective grabbers. No more confused ranges. When to go for 24", 18", or 12"??? Nope. Hang back, minimize return shots, pick stuff off. Scoot out when the board starts to empty.


But overall, I would just say let's wait to see the full picture. There could be some aura/obsession/PfP synergies that make what might feel like lackluster side-grades right now into a decent little setup.

For instance, is a "change splinter cannon from heavy 3 to rapid fire 3" obsession out of the question? Some takes might be ice cold in hindsight.

Barking Agatha wrote:

Burnage wrote:

Feels very much like mostly sidegrade territory without any additional buffs.

Yes, but isn't this the codex that's supposed to lift us up to the level of the other factions, with their kickass weapons, scores of troop choices, and unfettered rules? This is just 'a bit of a tweak' that is supposed to send us mad with joy, for some reason, as if we were a pack of pavlovian dogs who can't figure out for ourselves when something is actually good and when it isn't.

Oh, I know. Wait for the codex, this is only a peek, it will all make sense in context, yadda yadda. We've been hearing that same song for 10 years, and it's understandable if we're a little cranky.

I mean, you can dismiss this point if you'd like, but it's entirely accurate. The strength of a faction in 40k currently is based very heavily on the synergies that it can work with - even in 8th edition, looking at our own faction, you wouldn't have had a good sense of what the army was actually capable of without knowing about Flayed Skull, Prophets of the Flesh, Writ of the Living Muse, etc., etc. Marines and Sisters look *far* weaker than they really are if you don't know about their chapter traits, auras, doctrines, stratagems, etc.

The sky is absolutely not falling here and when we have our full book in hand we're almost certainly going to be in a far stronger position than we are currently.

Re: weapons changes, I think it's incredibly likely that darklight at the least is moving to D3+3 damage so the absence of any other previews here shouldn't be taken as confirmation that no changes are happening.