Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

Maybe I'm the odd one out.

I like DE fluff. I like Dark Eldar models. Hell, I love converting my own models - characters in particular. It makes them unique. It means I can tailor them to whatever theme most interests me, and it means that they really feel like *my* characters.

However, where I appear to diverge from others is that I also want to use these models on the tabletop. I want to be able to represent my conversions on the table (within reason, of course). I want to be able to field the models and builds I want to, without feeling like I'm completely handicapping myself in the process. I want to enjoy the way the army plays.

Put simply, however much I might like the fluff and the models, I really can't maintain that interest when the rules are boring, the playstyle restrictive and anti-synergistic, and the wargear non-existent.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

So yeah totally I get why people buy the models etc. I meant that the rules are what keeps us in the hobby long term and that’s why I believe we tend to talk more about rules than we do about just how amazing the models are...as you righty say they sell themselves.

That's kind of the problem. If a new player said they like elves and so they want to play one of the Aeldari factions, I would tell them not to play DE. Our rules aren't good. We don't have much of a personality (beyond the models) and the playstyle is difficult to describe.

Are we the fastest Aeldari race? No, we're the slowest.
Surely the toughest, then? No, the most fragile (unless going all in on coven)
Are we the best at shooting? No, CW is.
Are we the best in combat? No, harlies are

Pick a category and we are 2nd or 3rd of the Aeldari factions at it.

Our models are the only interesting thing about the faction currently, the rules are extremely bland. So if you want someone playing for a long time, they should be actively discouraged from joining our faction.

It didn't used to be that way, but GW has slowly stripped away the interesting parts, while CW and harlies have maintained their personality throughout.

GW has to give us a playstyle that isn't just a worse version of what the other 2 can do.

If the 9th Edition Codex doesn't change anything (and at this point there's no reason to suspect that it will), we'll still have fewer characters than we did in our very first 3rd edition Codex over twenty years ago.

Any way that you look at that, it's utterly appalling. We are desperately in need of some new units, especially if they continue to try to split our already small faction into three.

Burnage wrote:

If the 9th Edition Codex doesn't change anything (and at this point there's no reason to suspect that it will), we'll still have fewer characters than we did in our very first 3rd edition Codex over twenty years ago.

If the rumors turn out to be true, we may be able to use two of our 3 generic hqs

IN THE SAME DETACHMENT!!

sekac wrote:

GW has to give us a playstyle that isn't just a worse version of what the other 2 can do.

We're the horde faction of Eldar. That's our niche.

sekac wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

So yeah totally I get why people buy the models etc. I meant that the rules are what keeps us in the hobby long term and that’s why I believe we tend to talk more about rules than we do about just how amazing the models are...as you righty say they sell themselves.

That's kind of the problem. If a new player said they like elves and so they want to play one of the Aeldari factions, I would tell them not to play DE. Our rules aren't good. We don't have much of a personality (beyond the models) and the playstyle is difficult to describe.

Are we the fastest Aeldari race? No, we're the slowest.
Surely the toughest, then? No, the most fragile (unless going all in on coven)
Are we the best at shooting? No, CW is.
Are we the best in combat? No, harlies are

Pick a category and we are 2nd or 3rd of the Aeldari factions at it.

Our models are the only interesting thing about the faction currently, the rules are extremely bland. So if you want someone playing for a long time, they should be actively discouraged from joining our faction.

It didn't used to be that way, but GW has slowly stripped away the interesting parts, while CW and harlies have maintained their personality throughout.

GW has to give us a playstyle that isn't just a worse version of what the other 2 can do.

I hardly disagree here. It's fun because I find Drukhari as the most unique faction of the entire game. No one is like us in playstyle, we can do everything. We can play fast, shooty, melee, we're hard, we're fragile, we are everywhere. And we are a lot.

I love this army, their concept on game.

Can we play fast? Can we double move a unit of bikes 36 inches across the board and stil charge?
Do we even want to with our, let's say capabilities, in melee.

We can play shooty, but not nearly on the same level as some guardians with doom can.

And melee, yeah. Ok. We just throw out so many attacks (and mortal wounds, because let's face it, you're playing slashing impact) that there has to die something.
And we are everywhere, for two turns. Then you experience what Gaunt stats for double the price looks like.
I really don't want to spam our warriors and wyches, at least I do not want to be forced too. But that will never change because our 2 basic troop units cost less than 30 bucks per squad.

IMO, the way to describe us right now would be: good at everything, master at nothing.
So what @Cerve is saying i think is true, we are indeed able to do anything, but no, sadly, we won't be the best at anything.....and i'm ok with that frankly.
As a casual player, that's exactly what i'm looking for: i can try whatever i want, with some bad results and some good results. I repeat, i'm a casual player, i'm not talking from a competitive view.
Seriously i don't want to be a top tier army, after that nobody (friends) wants to play against you.....a little bit like the Death Guard and Blood Angel right now who are just destroying the game!

Kalmah wrote:

IMO, the way to describe us right now would be: good at everything, master at nothing.

So Marines-but-worse, then?

Boy, what a thrilling representation of Dark Eldar.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Kalmah wrote:

IMO, the way to describe us right now would be: good at everything, master at nothing.

So Marines-but-worse, then?

Boy, what a thrilling representation of Dark Eldar.

With the best models in the game!

Kalmah wrote:

IMO, the way to describe us right now would be: good at everything, master at nothing.
So what @Cerve is saying i think is true, we are indeed able to do anything, but no, sadly, we won't be the best at anything.....and i'm ok with that frankly.
As a casual player, that's exactly what i'm looking for: i can try whatever i want, with some bad results and some good results. I repeat, i'm a casual player, i'm not talking from a competitive view.

I'm mostly a casual player too. I don't care about having a top tier army. Good, sure, but not top tier. I just want an army with a personality.

In 5th, 6th, and 7th we were the fastest army in the entire game. Not top tier power, but nobody could move like us.

In 8th, we were no longer the fastest in straightline speed, but we had the ability to move top speed and still fire to full effect.

In 9th, everyone can move top speed and fire to full effect. We used to trade speed for fragility, now we just have the fragility.

The thing that made us unique was given to every army in the game--leaving us with no signature element to our army concept. That has nothing to do with being a good or bad army. Just a flavorless one.

That about sums it up. We're not the fastest, not the strongest, not the cheapest and certainly not the toughest.
So why play Drukhari? Well, sure you get shot off the board in turn 2, but at least we look good while dying. I'm sure this will convince players to spend more money on a Drukhari army.

It sounds, to me, like much of our army’s problems could be fixed with attention from the developers; If it were given  some thought and analysis, a clear purpose/design goal, and a willingness to change the rules and datasheets of the faction to reach that goal/purpose.
Given that the last couple of codexes we’ve gotten has been more results of circumstances*, this may very well be the first time, in a long time, that we get a book where the purpose has been to design something mainly with focus on the actual army (”what does this army do? And what does it need?”) in mind. With time and free reins to think that through. To define problems and find solutions, etc.
It at least seems like this is the first time since the 5ed rework that there is no huge restrictions, and instead a wide array of possibilities to do something with what they have.
Whatever the results, I am interested in seeing what they have come up with. Especially if my assumptions are right, and this is actually a book where time and attention has been given to the drukhari. That would warm my heart.


*the 2014/7ed book being mostly burdened with the (then) new restrictive rules for what units get to have rule support, and what seemed like that year’s goal/design direction to rein in the power creep.
The indexes being mainly a broad port of the 7ed dexes into the new system, using a generic translation system (instant death effect = 1d3 dmg, small blast = 1d3 shots, etc). And the 8ed codexes making small adjustments to the indexes, but mostly being an add-on/band aid of fun stuff to play around with (chapter tactics, warlord traits, relig, and stratagems), while not adressing the ”universally same:y” foundation laid by the indexes.

Ps: I don’t believe that being the horde army of the eldari, bor being the jack-of-all-trades army, are intentional designs. But rather a side-effect due to the power creep of the craftworlders (leaving the drukhari far behind) and the release of the harlequins filling the niche of the elite, fast, glass cannon, that otherwise would’ve been a good niche for drukhari to be ’signed into filling.
Leaving the drukhari with no clear design space to fill.

ursvamp wrote:

It sounds, to me, like much of our army’s problems could be fixed with attention from the developers; If it were given  some thought and analysis, a clear purpose/design goal, and a willingness to change the rules and datasheets of the faction to reach that goal/purpose.
Given that the last couple of codexes we’ve gotten has been more results of circumstances*, this may very well be the first time, in a long time, that we get a book where the purpose has been to design something mainly with focus on the actual army (”what does this army do? And what does it need?”) in mind. With time and free reins to think that through. To define problems and find solutions, etc.
It at least seems like this is the first time since the 5ed rework that there is no huge restrictions, and instead a wide array of possibilities to do something with what they have.
Whatever the results, I am interested in seeing what they have come up with. Especially if my assumptions are right, and this is actually a book where time and attention has been given to the drukhari. That would warm my heart.

If you approach 40k from a game-design perspective you face the major issue that GW is primarily a model company. As such, models come first and the rules come second. And we are stuck with a range where the afterthought was made for 5th edition.

And we don't even know the set of constraints which are set upon the designers. They must probably follow guidelines such as "a unit must only have wargear which is included in a kit" which are decided by the higher-ups. They probably have some design guidelines too, like "one HQ must always have a re-roll hits aura". Really, who knows. (and then of course they make exceptions for some armies).

And how much time do these people even have to finish a book? I can only imagine that they have a tight schedule so: don't fix what ain't broke and don't dare any bold redesigns.

The sad thing is that in principle I love the core design of our book. 3 armies, one book, many ways to build an army, multiple warlords etc. But the range of models puts a huge burden on this concept and severely limits.

I'm nervous about the upcoming release because so far, only Mahreen codices were released. And 8th edition noticably streamlined the factions to be more marine-like, with 9th edition going an extra step forward.

The only thing that rests my nerves a little is that the codices were apparently designed all in parallel. This should keep the power creep in check... hopefully.

ursvamp wrote:

*the 2014/7ed book being mostly burdened with the (then) new restrictive rules for what units get to have rule support, and what seemed like that year’s goal/design direction to rein in the power creep.
The indexes being mainly a broad port of the 7ed dexes into the new system, using a generic translation system (instant death effect = 1d3 dmg, small blast = 1d3 shots, etc). And the 8ed codexes making small adjustments to the indexes, but mostly being an add-on/band aid of fun stuff to play around with (chapter tactics, warlord traits, relig, and stratagems).

I agree with this so much. And this translations came with its own share of design flaws. I think Blast weapons should have been part since 8th.

ursvamp wrote:

Ps: I don’t believe that being the horde army of the eldari, bor being the jack-of-all-trades army, are intentional designs. But rather a side-effect due to the power creep of the craftworlders (leaving the drukhari far behind) and the release of the harlequins filling the niche of the elite, fast, glass cannon, that otherwise would’ve been a good niche for drukhari to be ’signed into filling.
Leaving the drukhari with no clear design space to fill.

Given how the meta has evolved, I don't see how we can work as anything else than an eldar horde army. And for a faction that swarms a whole planet and "blackens the sky with Raiders", it's not unfitting I'd argue.

With T3 and low saves across the board, we can only rely on redundancy to keep a foothold in the game. I bet this was different in 5th edition.

I'm not so sure if our model range and lore could really adapt the playstyle of Harlequinns though. We don't have psychic powers and I think Harlequinns should always be "more elite" than the other eldar factions.

PS: I'd like to see us becoming a true finesse army. An army which rewards taking daring and dangerous moves. I want to see "Rapid Fire Batteries" on Ravagers, which turns the profiles of weapons from "Heavy" to "Rapid Fire". The Voidravens can supercharge its bomb, but takes D6 mortal wounds. You would think this is what we have stratagems for.

ursvamp wrote:

It sounds, to me, like much of our army’s problems could be fixed with attention from the developers; If it were given  some thought and analysis, a clear purpose/design goal, and a willingness to change the rules and datasheets of the faction to reach that goal/purpose.
Given that the last couple of codexes we’ve gotten has been more results of circumstances*, this may very well be the first time, in a long time, that we get a book where the purpose has been to design something mainly with focus on the actual army (”what does this army do? And what does it need?”) in mind. With time and free reins to think that through. To define problems and find solutions, etc.
It at least seems like this is the first time since the 5ed rework that there is no huge restrictions, and instead a wide array of possibilities to do something with what they have.
Whatever the results, I am interested in seeing what they have come up with. Especially if my assumptions are right, and this is actually a book where time and attention has been given to the drukhari. That would warm my heart.


*the 2014/7ed book being mostly burdened with the (then) new restrictive rules for what units get to have rule support, and what seemed like that year’s goal/design direction to rein in the power creep.
The indexes being mainly a broad port of the 7ed dexes into the new system, using a generic translation system (instant death effect = 1d3 dmg, small blast = 1d3 shots, etc). And the 8ed codexes making small adjustments to the indexes, but mostly being an add-on/band aid of fun stuff to play around with (chapter tactics, warlord traits, relig, and stratagems), while not adressing the ”universally same:y” foundation laid by the indexes.

Honestly, I think the most important factor will be whether the person (people?) writing the DE codex actually play the army and have enthusiasm for it.

This is important with regard to balance, as I think it can be very easy to overvalue mechanics when they're being used against you, and when you're not using them yourself.

I could give the example of Poison (which many seem to view as being vastly more useful than it actually is), however, I think a far better example would be the old Lance rule. Dark Lances were constantly viewed as being superior to Lascannons because they treated any AV greater than 12 as 12. However, when you looked at the math, Lascannons were actually superior to Dark Lances against AV10-12, equal against AV13 and only performed worse against AV14 (of which there were maybe 3 instances in the entire game). And this was in addition to Lascannons also having +12" of range.

However, if you only ever played against DE, you might well think that Dark Lances were vastly superior and in need of nerfing.

It also matters because if you're only playing against the army, then you're only really seeing what's strong. You're not seeing units/mechanics that might be boring to play, you're not seeing how certain units don't remotely live up to their fluff, you're not seeing the units that never even get taken etc..

Basically, you end up with a very one-dimensional view of the army. What's more, you're also less likely to have the interest or enthusiasm to do anything more than the bare minimum with regard to special rules and the like, so artefacts are likely going to feel generic and almost placeholder-y.

ursvamp wrote:

Ps: I don’t believe that being the horde army of the eldari, bor being the jack-of-all-trades army, are intentional designs. But rather a side-effect due to the power creep of the craftworlders (leaving the drukhari far behind) and the release of the harlequins filling the niche of the elite, fast, glass cannon, that otherwise would’ve been a good niche for drukhari to be ’signed into filling.
Leaving the drukhari with no clear design space to fill.

Just to say, I think this is a good point. Beyond being horde-eldar (which isn't really much to go on), what do you think should be our focus? As in, if we do just one thing better than Harlequins and Eldar, what should it be? Speed/mobility, maybe? It seems we should at least do it better than the Craftworlders.

We’re not slow. If they turned around and said “good news everybody, we’ve done nothing but increase your speed” I’d smack them in the mouth! I don’t care about being the fastest. Fast is enough.

I want to scare the other army. I want DE Eldar to cause fear. We have no part to play in the psychic phase. So it would be nice if we had a bigger impact on morale. It would feel like we have a phase of our own that we really make an impact in.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

We’re not slow. If they turned around and said “good news everybody, we’ve done nothing but increase your speed” I’d smack them in the mouth! I don’t care about being the fastest. Fast is enough.

I want to scare the other army. I want DE Eldar to cause fear. We have no part to play in the psychic phase. So it would be nice if we had a bigger impact on morale. It would feel like we have a phase of our own that we really make an impact in.

I do agree with this. In previous editions (don't remember what edition exactly anymore) morale used to be a way bigger thing, and it was possible to build a DE army around that mechanic. I remember lowering enemy's morale by 4 points, shooting 1 or 2 models, and then twice that many decided to call it quits.
In 8th edition, I basically keep forgetting the morale phase even exists, because it really doesn't make a difference anymore.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

We’re not slow.

By what definition? An extra inch or two of movement on our infantry? Whoop-de-doo.

Harlequins can Advance or fall back and still charge. Eldar can Advance and still fire non-heavy weapons with no penalty. Hell, Tallarn Imperial Guard can Advance and fire non-Heavy weapons.

What do we get?
HQs - 0 mobility options (and, as discussed to death previously, 0 extra spaces in Transports for them).
Elites - 0 with any mobility (unless you count deep striking, in which case congratulations on being just as mobile as Imperial Guard).
Troops - 0 with any mobility (even if you count deep strike)
heavy Support - Only the vehicle. Even our monsters are slow.

I sigh at DE being considered a fast army because it's predicated entirely on our transports, and even they aren't that fast. The Raider, in spite of supposedly trading armour for speed, is nevertheless slower than heavily-armoured Eldar vehicles. Even the Venom can only keep pace with them.

Furthermore, you'll note that I said speed/mobility - not just speed.

As an example, I'd love to see more out-of-sequence movement like Fire and Fade. Or something akin to what Corsairs used to get, where they could withdraw if they shot an enemy within 12".

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I want to scare the other army. I want DE Eldar to cause fear. We have no part to play in the psychic phase. So it would be nice if we had a bigger impact on morale. It would feel like we have a phase of our own that we really make an impact in.

IMO trying to get the Morale phase to work in 9th is a lost cause. All you'll end up with is a lot of weapons that are really inefficient and awkward to use, because you're trying to kill just part of a unit and just sort of pray that the rest dies by itself. And then you end up facing Imperial Knights and wondering why you bothered.

Also, since Morale is last, it means that your opponent is the one who gets the react first to anything that happens in that phase, if you see what I mean. If you shoot a target and it doesn't die, you can shoot something else at it. If you think you've shot enough at a unit that it will die in the morale phase, but it actually doesn't, then you're stuck until your next turn.

That said, I wouldn't object to DE having a lot of abilities that target Ld in some way. Hell, even a few weapons that wound Ld instead of toughness would be nice. Especially if we're able to stack Ld debuffs on our enemies. Maybe add some debuffs that take effect unless the enemy passes a Ld test?

I think that sort of thing would be great for the flavour of our army. I'm just leery of trying to utilise GW's botched attempt at a morale phase, as quite frankly I think the ship has already sailed on that one.

I suspect that we're going to get abilities that modify attrition checks... which is cool in theory, until you notice that at least some space marine chapters (if not all) have a way to either ignore attrition check modifiers, or ignore attrition checks entirely - so that puts us back in 7th edition, where we had some pretty cool LD affecting abilities... that didn't work on space marines at all.

The Strange Dark One wrote:

PS: I'd like to see us becoming a true finesse army. An army which rewards taking daring and dangerous moves.

Cut for space, but a lot of fair points!
I think finesse sounds like a good word for what I would like to see, also!

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Beyond being horde-eldar (which isn't really much to go on), what do you think should be our focus? As in, if we do just one thing better than Harlequins and Eldar, what should it be? Speed/mobility, maybe? It seems we should at least do it better than the Craftworlders.

Very good points here, also!
I especially relate to the Dark Lances vs Lascannons-thing. The frustration of trying to destroy rhinos in 5ed when you only have dark lances to do the job. *stares into the distance, a single tear running down the cheek*

I’m not sure what I would want. But I think, like The Strange Dark One says above, that some kind of finesse-army style would be neat. Some kind of mechanic, or set of mechanics, that allow us to really prey on where the opponent is weakest, or take advantage of openings. An army that punishes us for making mistakes (as it has always been due to fragility), but allows us to really bring the hurt when everything falls into place or we can seize an opening.
(I don’t have much in the way of concrete ideas,  that hasn’t already been discussed at length, I’m sorry! ^^’ )

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Troops - 0 with any mobility (even if you count deep strike)

If I recall correctly, in 7ed I think all out transports had deepstrike for free, which was honestly pretty rad (of course deepstrike was more dangerous and unreliable back then. Which was Pretty fun!)

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I want to scare the other army. I want DE Eldar to cause fear. We have no part to play in the psychic phase. So it would be nice if we had a bigger impact on morale. It would feel like we have a phase of our own that we really make an impact in.

This could be fun! Fear and Morale-stuff has been a classic Drukhari thing to fiddle with. 7ed leaned into it a lot! But as has been pointed out already, it was useful against like 3-4 armies in the game (one of which was drukhari)
But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t find a new mechanic for it, that would actually have an impact in today’s 40k! It doesn’t have to affect attrition, it could be some kind of debuff for our enemies instead!
Since the kabalite and wyches sheets leaked we know now that the phantasm grenade launcher is probably not a weapon anymore, and back to being wargear. So that may be one way of getting a fear factor in as a more passive effect. I am very curious to see what rules comes with it. =)

AzraeI wrote:

We can play shooty, but not nearly on the same level as some guardians with doom can.

This is probably something worth noting, in fairness; when the 8th edition Codex was released, Drukhari were *also* capable of taking advantage of Doom (and God knows the allied Doomseer/Warlock combination was a mainstay of my lists for most of the edition). I still think we're in a slightly better spot rules-wise than CWE are overall currently, but the nerf cycle over 8th and 9th has been a fair bit harsher to us than them.

Our new book might reset that somewhat.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

We’re not slow. If they turned around and said “good news everybody, we’ve done nothing but increase your speed” I’d smack them in the mouth! I don’t care about being the fastest. Fast is enough.

SM's are just as fast and... actually faster. We are actually the slowest of the 3 Eldars other than Reavers in Red Grief. FYI Storm Speeders are 18" movement. We are slow for what we are.

We still the faster army besides Harlequins. It's not about delivering a cargo, not about checking who can travel more.ground with a single activation. The thing is we can KEEP this fastness far all the game, and all around the board. We have A LOT of fast bodies, we don't deploy 5 Wave Serpents, or 2 units of bikes (like White Scars for example), we have potentially EVERYTHING fast in our Codex. Even Taloi can do 8"+D6"+shooting+7". We can deploy a Venom spam that goes at 19". Our Boats can do 14"(+3"?)+8"+shooting+7". Thanks to abilities, profiles and stratagems our fastness is consistency.
It's not that we can do about 1 superlong charge, or that we can deploy some fatty guys at16" from the initial position. We can do this, but more.important, we FEEL fast. We can move a lot even in late game. You don't destroy our transports just stopping them, we steel super agile, we can sneak around the board every time, THIS is what being the faster.army means.
There are only 2 factions that are faster like us: Harlequins, of course. And a full new Ravenwing army, which I don"t know how much viable can be anyway.

I don't think you have seen how fast some armies can be. You are forgetting CWE quickening, they also have FnF, they have Vypers that moves 20" and still can advance, Hornets are 18" base and has 2D6 to advance instead of 1, warp spiders move7+4D6, Banshees can charge after they run and adds 3" to the charge. There is much more too. Wait till you see how fast a SM can actually be, like I said they have 14-18" movement units BASE not counting stratagems, advancements, and traits, then there is Tyranids, lol you think DE is fast, have you seen how fast nids can go? You can have 5 units a turn move over 30" ffs. Just gants in Kraken are moving 13" on average if they advance, stealers 18", heck their flyers can move 30" and still charge as they are not airborne.

Why don't you see fast SM armies? Well you did A LOT before 9th secondaries came out and they can max their Secondaries by sitting in the middle of the table. We had turn 1 charging SM armies with WS and RG winning event after event.

And not is not even counting Orks, fast GSC, or Daemons, holy crap can they be fast too for a walking army, go watch Skari play against Daemons, they are on his heels at all times.

So no we are not fast, we are average.

Cerve wrote:

We still the faster army besides Harlequins. It's not about delivering a cargo, not about checking who can travel more.ground with a single activation. The thing is we can KEEP this fastness far all the game, and all around the board. We have A LOT of fast bodies, we don't deploy 5 Wave Serpents, or 2 units of bikes (like White Scars for example), we have potentially EVERYTHING fast in our Codex. Even Taloi can do 8"+D6"+shooting+7". We can deploy a Venom spam that goes at 19". Our Boats can do 14"(+3"?)+8"+shooting+7". Thanks to abilities, profiles and stratagems our fastness is consistency.
It's not that we can do about 1 superlong charge, or that we can deploy some fatty guys at16" from the initial position. We can do this, but more.important, we FEEL fast. We can move a lot even in late game. You don't destroy our transports just stopping them, we steel super agile, we can sneak around the board every time, THIS is what being the faster.army means.
There are only 2 factions that are faster like us: Harlequins, of course. And a full new Ravenwing army, which I don"t know how much viable can be anyway.

I agree with this. Just because other armies have fast options doesn’t make us average. We are optimal in our fast builds. I’m quite sure we will see some strats added as well.