Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

Burnage wrote:

Grimcrimm wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I’m not sure why some are calling for a complete re work of DE. Why is that even an expectation?

If you want a complete re work then perhaps you are simply bored of DE or the game in general but that’s an unrealistic expectation for GW to re work an army because of a few people being bored. People will have built armies around the 8th Ed rules and codex...now is not the time for a massive overhaul of DE. Now is the time for some tweaks...tweaks that will quite possibly be enough for the masses.

GEEDUBS themselves claimed we would be getting a "ground up rework"
We are looking at tweaks at best, sidegrades and bland rules at worst

When was this claimed?

It was on the first twitch when Drukhari was announced. Can't remember if it was december or january.
Yeah they said that they reworked the army in a more killy way. That nearly every datasheet and kinda the 90% of the weaponry got reworked/gots some tweaks on it.

Oh man.


No invul saves. +4 str, -4 ap and d3+3 damage.

But we get +1 attack on a venom and some people here (cough) are happy with the changes we received.

Hope we get the same treatment... I am sure we will, right?
Right?

He is also -1 to hit and -1 to wound.
What chance do our wyches have? What chance does anything in our entire codex have?
Our previews better be spectacular!


Edit- Oh, and for those hoping for previews today... someone griped that this was more than all the DE previews so far and GW's response?

Quote :

We will have a closer look at the Codex: Drukhari later this week, so fear not!

So does this fill anyone with hope?

Granted, they haven't mentioned how much Be'lakor costs to put on the table. I would hope that they *at least* doubled his current point cost.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Necrons were in a much worse place than DE. At least that’s my personal opinion. So I’m sorry but I don’t think what one army gets necessarily sets a precedent for what every army will or should get. I think that’s very poor reasoning.

The Necrons needed it, that's for sure. And Tyranids haven't had their day in dog's ages. Xenos in general have been neglected for a while, some worse than others.

But whether they were in a much worse place or not, that's what they got, and it has led optimistic people to expect a Drukhari codex on a similar level to the Necron codex, because they believe that GW has at least the intention of being fair, while those of us who have been around a bit longer already know that GW doesn't care one bit about being fair, at all.

Also, as an observation, I've noticed that 'staying positive' requires a lot of perspective shifting over time:

A few weeks ago it was, 'The Drukhari codex is gonna be awesome!'

Then some leaks came out and it was, 'Well, it's gonna be awesome in context!'

Another week and it changes to, 'Well, these changes aren't that bad. See, this is a slightly good thing, and this is another slightly good thing, and you can kill Daemon Lords and Carnifex...'

And now we're changing it to, 'Who said it had to be awesome? It was fine the way it was. Oh yes, it was always fine.'

If we need to move the goalposts further and further away in order to stay 'positive', it seems to me that such 'positivity' has little to do with wanting a fair game, and is more concerned with sustaining a personal sense of superiority over others, which is hardly what I would call being 'positive'. But that's only my opinion, of course.

Can't say it surprises me. GW constantly tries to outdo themselves with bullshit Lord of War rules.

But the lack of any substantial news whatsoever really starts to smell dubious. We can pre-order the codex on saturday and what do we know what about it yet?? So far, the datasheet leaks have been more telling than anything else. And how much information did GW spam out when they were teasing Death Guard and Dark Angels?

Also, did anybody read the subtext on the new Daemon Prince article?

Warhammer Community wrote:

This new Primaris Lieutenant model comes with a power sword and an entire Daemon Prince.

I can't tell if this is a joke or a silent admittal of self awareness.

Cerve wrote:

Burnage wrote:

Grimcrimm wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I’m not sure why some are calling for a complete re work of DE. Why is that even an expectation?

If you want a complete re work then perhaps you are simply bored of DE or the game in general but that’s an unrealistic expectation for GW to re work an army because of a few people being bored. People will have built armies around the 8th Ed rules and codex...now is not the time for a massive overhaul of DE. Now is the time for some tweaks...tweaks that will quite possibly be enough for the masses.

GEEDUBS themselves claimed we would be getting a "ground up rework"
We are looking at tweaks at best, sidegrades and bland rules at worst

When was this claimed?

It was on the first twitch when Drukhari was announced. Can't remember if it was december or january.
Yeah they said that they reworked the army in a more killy way. That nearly every datasheet and kinda the 90% of the weaponry got reworked/gots some tweaks on it.

Decadence and Decay preview 44min, "fundamentally reworked from the ground up"
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/21/warhammer-preview-online-decadence-decay/

GW seems to know that most people forget their promises.^^

The Strange Dark One wrote:

But the lack of any substantial news whatsoever really starts to smell dubious.

Exactly! It is almost like they are embarrassed by the codex and want it to just get released with as little fanfare as possible.

If it was a great, well thought out codex, wouldn't they want to preview it to let people know?

Necrons were splashed across the GW facebook page and website with their release, same with death guard.

We get a codex release, but they are pimping the expansion coming AFTER us...
Ugh.
"Worrisome" does not even begin to describe what I am feeling over all of this.

What do you think a "complete overhaul" means exactly for a kabalite? Because nothing I have seen so far is proving they didn't do a complete overhaul. We haven't seen any of the special rules that go with the statline.

Gelmir wrote:

What do you think a "complete overhaul" means exactly for a kabalite? Because nothing I have seen so far is proving they didn't do a complete overhaul. We haven't seen any of the special rules that go with the statline.

And then GW posts something like this:

GeeDeubs wrote:

We’ve already seen that Kabalite Warriors are getting better in the new codex. It’s not just the Kabals that are improving, though – most units in the army are getting an extra Attack. So whether you like to field Wyches, Hellions, or even a Cronos, you’ll be dishing out even more pain.

It's because of lines like this why I'm not hopeful for anything more substantial, let alone "complete overhaul". Clearly, twice as many attacks means twice as good, right?

The Strange Dark One wrote:

Also, did anybody read the subtext on the new Daemon Prince article?

Warhammer Community wrote:

This new Primaris Lieutenant model comes with a power sword and an entire Daemon Prince.

I can't tell if this is a joke or a silent admittal of self awareness.

did i not tell you that GW was toying with us regarding all the Lieutenant's release?....so yes it's just a joke....(unless you can play with Belak'hor in a SM army and pretend its a Lieutenant....)

The Strange Dark One wrote:

Gelmir wrote:

What do you think a "complete overhaul" means exactly for a kabalite? Because nothing I have seen so far is proving they didn't do a complete overhaul. We haven't seen any of the special rules that go with the statline.

And then GW posts something like this:

GeeDeubs wrote:

We’ve already seen that Kabalite Warriors are getting better in the new codex. It’s not just the Kabals that are improving, though – most units in the army are getting an extra Attack. So whether you like to field Wyches, Hellions, or even a Cronos, you’ll be dishing out even more pain.

It's because of lines like this why I'm not hopeful for anything more substantial, let alone "complete overhaul". Clearly, twice as many attacks means twice as good, right?

That is still not an answer to my question though. What does a complete overhaul mean? And if they did one, but only showed the base statline of a Kabalite, what would be different than this statline we've seen now?

Also, I don't get this comparison of Haywire Blasters and Splinter Cannons. They are the exact opposite. HB is better against vehicles, but sucks against monsters. Splinter Cannons are better against monsters, but suck against vehicles. The exact opposite role. In my oppinion that makes them great to use together with each other.

Quote :

I don't get this comparison of Haywire Blasters and Splinter Cannons

the HB in question was a Heavy Bolter, not the Haywire Blaster.

I was definitely expecting 5 days of new codex previews. Does anyone know whether the other factions had a preview every day for a week? My recollection is yes, but I'm not sure.

Not bitter at all (yet) that Belly is awesome. He should be awesome. We're not an army with a big centerpiece model so it's hard to compare right now.

I'm not alarmed by the changes that we've seen so far, most of them I like. But I am alarmed by how much of an afterthought we are...

WrackYourBrains wrote:

I was definitely expecting 5 days of new codex previews. Does anyone know whether the other factions had a preview every day for a week? My recollection is yes, but I'm not sure.

The day's not over yet.

For the overhaul, the reason why none expects a big overhaul anymore is marketing reasons. Every marketing department worth their pay would use a big overhaul to create hype. Normally marketing blows everything out of proportion, they take the biggest thing they find and put the focus on it and make it even look bigger.
Just showing  +1 here -1 there gives more the impression that there is nothing bigger marketing would normally use.

krayd wrote:

The day's not over yet.

Again, direct from GW earlier today:

Quote :

We will have a closer look at the Codex: Drukhari later this week, so fear not!

And notice they didn't say: "starting Tomorrow" so I am not expecting anything until Wednesday at the earliest.

WrackYourBrains wrote:

I was definitely expecting 5 days of new codex previews. Does anyone know whether the other factions had a preview every day for a week? My recollection is yes, but I'm not sure.

Dark Angels only had 4. But Death Guard had 5, I believe.

WrackYourBrains wrote:

Not bitter at all (yet) that Belly is awesome. He should be awesome. We're not an army with a big centerpiece model so it's hard to compare right now.

Yeah, I agree. That belakor-model is sweet. GW seems to have a philosophy where big model = big rules, which leaves some armies behind flashyness-wise. I don’t like that philosophy, personally. But it is what it is.

WrackYourBrains wrote:

I'm not alarmed by the changes that we've seen so far, most of them I like. But I am alarmed by how much of an afterthought we are...

Same!

I think today officially marks my transition from optimist to pessimist. I was mentally preparing myself for bad news while remaining optimistic. I did not even consider that "no news" was an option for the Monday before pre-order.

Anu race not space marines or one of its offspring is an afterthought for GW. That's good.. keep drukhari a mid tier. Force us to play better where other races can play their ez mode races

Skulnbonz wrote:

krayd wrote:

The day's not over yet.

Again, direct from GW earlier today:

Quote :

We will have a closer look at the Codex: Drukhari later this week, so fear not!

And notice they didn't say: "starting Tomorrow" so I am not expecting anything until Wednesday at the earliest.

I hope your wrong. This would worry me a lot. The purpose of the reveals is to increase hype and therefore sales of the book. If they aren't revealing much it could be an indication they think revealing more would hurt sales.... Not a good sign.

I was checking the WC website a lot today and each time they released a new article... Nothing to do with drukhari
Hopefully they're just holding off for end of the working day here in the UK

Skulnbonz wrote:

Again, direct from GW earlier today:

Quote :

We will have a closer look at the Codex: Drukhari later this week, so fear not!

Where did they say this? I missed it.

Welp...my feelings have definitively shifted from mild pessimism to outright concern.

From official GW releases, we know...Leilith's statline and command abilities, Kabalite's Statline, Splinter Cannon's basic profile, that Hellions and a few other useless units are getting an extra attack. I might have missed a detail or two, but that's everything major I think.

From datasheet leaks, we further know incomplete profiles for a scattered few units, most notably Venoms and Wyches.

That's it. Five days until pre-order and that's the totality of public knowledge on this book. More previews "later this week" means nothing today or tomorrow at least. That optimistically puts our first pre-order article on Wednesday. Possibly Thursday.

This is shaping up to be the most secretive codex release of the edition so far. When the marketing strategy seems to be "reveal as little information as possible and hope people buy it anyway," i kinda have to conclude that GW doesn't think they've got a winner on their hands.

Gelmir wrote:

That is still not an answer to my question though. What does a complete overhaul mean? And if they did one, but only showed the base statline of a Kabalite, what would be different than this statline we've seen now?

overhaul = rework;
tweaking = rebalancing;
expansion = rework and rebalancing;

In game design rebalancing means changing values in game entity (ability cooldown time or stats per level) in comparison to other entities (characters and their stats) or to fit global rules that are applied to entities. Rework means changing the entity itself because it cascades up to high level rules (core mechanics or game loops).

If we take wh40k for example changing base stats (values) or unit price to fit new ruleset will be rebalancing. Changes are applied only to values of entity (number of attacks for kabalite warrior). But if we change unit role for heavy support it will be rework. Because changes are affecting high level rules (army composition).

Every new entity brings expansion into game (new faction or new unit inside faction) so rebalancing and reworking are unavoidable. In video game design the design itself cascades down from game pillars to stats and parameters like this: pillars->core game loop ->side loops -> abstract game entities and core mechanics -> actual game entities. Changing higher level always cascades down and you need to rework how everything else works in this line.  

Skulnbonz wrote:

Necrons were splashed across the GW facebook page and website with their release, same with death guard.

We get a codex release, but they are pimping the expansion coming AFTER us...
Ugh.

But do we get big, new, beefy models that cost as much to produce as all smaller models, but sell for 3x the price?