Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

sekac wrote:

People seem really down on scourges, but I don't totally get why. Sure, several of their guns changed to heavy, but was anyone contemplating anything other than dark lances/shredders?

Compare 4 DL scourges to a ravager. Assuming the scourges move, 4 DL hitting on 4+=2 hits. A Ravager: 3 hitting on 3+=2 hits. Same average, but scourges have a higher ceiling. If the scourges don't need to move, they are better mathematically.

Scourges are core now, so can re-roll 1s to hit in a Realspace Raider detachment. With BH and the Writ, re-rolling 1s to wound as well. Better than a ravager.

The cost less than a ravager, easier to hide than a ravager, don't give up secondaries like a ravager, and MOST IMPORTANTLY free up your ravagers to continue to take dissy cannons.

I think I'll be taking 2 squads with DL, and 1 squad with shredders until I'm convinced they aren't good. Their role changed, but I don't think I could describe them as "losers".

Don't sleep on Heat Lances. They moved to S8 and D6+2 damage - they're a bit swingier than Dark Lances but you can hit much higher spikes and are still 5 points cheaper on Scourges.

I think they're going to be the go-to heavy weapon on a lot of my lists now.

Swordxart wrote:

i dont rly understand the realspace raider detachment, how many elite and so on slots does it have? if u take 1 or 2 other patrols together with it do these cost cp? im confused lol

You take it as you would any detachment, but it has to be one that can fit at least 3 HQs. Usually, it's going to be a battalion, I suspect. Though you could use a Brigade. So, you need 1 archon, 1 succubus, and 1 haemonculus. Then you need at least one of each of their respective troop choices (so, at least 1 kabalite warrior unit, 1 wych unit, and 1 wrack unit). Then you have a realspace raider detachment and you get the respective bonuses.

You can take more detachments, but you'll have to pay CP for them.

The Shredder wrote:

A new codex appears!

Let's check the list, shall we?

0 new models. Check.

0 New HQs. Check. (No, I don't count the new "Master" HQs because all they do is make the non-Master HQs completely redundant to the point where you could remove them and no one would notice or care. But apparently people are tripping over one another to kiss GW's feet for this complete lack of innovation.)

0 Mobility options for HQs. Check.  

"But, Shredder, HQs can now fit into transports with their troops."

Cool. That is indeed an improvement. So tell me, when I put my archon- sorry, I of course meant my Master Archon (TM) into a raider with a squad of trueborn, what exactly can he do? His aura still doesn't function so he can't actually perform the function of a leader (and changing the aura to something that would work would require GW to put a modicum of thought into the book). And his Blaster was removed somewhere along the way so he can't add to the squad's firepower. Unless you consider a BS2+ splinter pistol to worth ~90pts, I guess.

Existing wargear options removed. Check.

0 new wargear options added. Check.

Necrons got a slew of 'invisible' wargear which could be taken in addition to artefacts and wargear. Dark Eldar... didn't.

And no, once again, I don't count the "Master" upgrades because there are no options to speak of. A Master archon is only ever good at one thing (and by 'good' I mean 'terrible' because his melee weapons are all abysmal, with the only half-decent one having been hammered into absolute oblivion). Oh but don't worry - Masters also get extra warlord traits and artefacts to pick from. Because apparently DE HQs weren't reliant enough on artefacts and warlord traits already.

Anyway, returning to the list:

Army still pointlessly shoehorned into three subfactions? Check. Because it makes complete sense for one of the smallest, most neglected armies in the game to have this sort of split.

Still naff-all choice within the respective subfactions? Check. Apparently if you put a haemonculus with a squad of wyches, all those millennia of fleshcrafting just fall right out of his brain and all he can do is stand around gormlessly, wielding his massive stack of... no wargear. Yes, the characters known for bringing vast arrays of artefacts and eldritch devices get 0 wargear. And as I listen to the bleats of praise for GW, I understand why our army will never, ever improve.


I'm going to make a prediction here - people will be all over this book for the next few months, with the usual suspects building alters that they can worship GW for delivering unto them the greatest codex in the history of humankind. Then, after the excitement wears off, they'll finally start to acknowledge that this book is just the old book with a fresh coat of paint. And in fact, almost everything that made the old book a pain in the arse to play (e.g. limited army-building because of subfactions, restrictive character options because HQs are locked into specific artefact/warlord trait combinations in order to be even vaguely competent at their intended roles etc.) are all still present. And the few that were addressed were simply replaced with new ones.

However, I'm also aware that this opinion is one no one wants to hear whilst they're busy deluding themselves that GW actually cares about their army (hint: they don't).

So if you'll excuse me, I'll retire back into my coffin and wait for 10th edition.

Unfollow

krayd wrote:

Swordxart wrote:

i dont rly understand the realspace raider detachment, how many elite and so on slots does it have? if u take 1 or 2 other patrols together with it do these cost cp? im confused lol

You take it as you would any detachment, but it has to be one that can fit at least 3 HQs. Usually, it's going to be a battalion, I suspect. Though you could use a Brigade. So, you need 1 archon, 1 succubus, and 1 haemonculus. Then you need at least one of each of their respective troop choices (so, at least 1 kabalite warrior unit, 1 wych unit, and 1 wrack unit). Then you have a realspace raider detachment and you get the respective bonuses.

You can take more detachments, but you'll have to pay CP for them.

Ah okay, thanks. that means i could use more than 3 hqs in case one used the brigade. well wil try that out ^^

Hmmm are poisoned weapons not affected by + to wound abilities anymore? They say that you need "unmodified" rolls. So for example dark technomancers does not benefit poison or am i wrong here...?

Thats why also poisoned tongue says that it improves the target number of poisoned weapons instead of just saying +1 to wound with poson

Burnage wrote:

sekac wrote:

People seem really down on scourges, but I don't totally get why. Sure, several of their guns changed to heavy, but was anyone contemplating anything other than dark lances/shredders?

Compare 4 DL scourges to a ravager. Assuming the scourges move, 4 DL hitting on 4+=2 hits. A Ravager: 3 hitting on 3+=2 hits. Same average, but scourges have a higher ceiling. If the scourges don't need to move, they are better mathematically.

Scourges are core now, so can re-roll 1s to hit in a Realspace Raider detachment. With BH and the Writ, re-rolling 1s to wound as well. Better than a ravager.

The cost less than a ravager, easier to hide than a ravager, don't give up secondaries like a ravager, and MOST IMPORTANTLY free up your ravagers to continue to take dissy cannons.

I think I'll be taking 2 squads with DL, and 1 squad with shredders until I'm convinced they aren't good. Their role changed, but I don't think I could describe them as "losers".

Don't sleep on Heat Lances. They moved to S8 and D6+2 damage - they're a bit swingier than Dark Lances but you can hit much higher spikes and are still 5 points cheaper on Scourges.

I think they're going to be the go-to heavy weapon on a lot of my lists now.

I'm looking at heat lances for reavers and talos, certainly. Especially DT talos with TL liqs too. The 1 to hit is a risk, but mitigated by only having 2 shots. But wounding dang near everything on 2s, and D6+3 damage...damn lethal.

I don’t love the short range combined with the drawback of being heavy on scourges. With the 36" range from DL, scourges hopefully won't have to move as often. But what makes them better than devastators is when they do have to move to get line of sight. They can get into and out of tall ruins with ease. Much better for getting new angles.

Swordxart wrote:

i dont rly understand the realspace raider detachment, how many elite and so on slots does it have? if u take 1 or 2 other patrols together with it do these cost cp? im confused lol

Yes the patrols would still cost CP - Patrols are only free due to the Raiding Force rule if *all* our detachments are Patrols.

Any detachment that contains three or more HQ and Troop slots can be a Realspace Raider detachment - it needs to contain your Archon Warlord, a Succubus, and a Haemonculus. It must also contain at least one unit each of Kabalite Warriors, Wyches, and Wracks.

Functionally, this 3 HQ + 3 Troop limitation basically means that a Realspace Raider detachment needs to be a Battalion or Brigade, and is thus mutually exclusive with using the Raiding Force rule.

DevilDoll wrote:

Hmmm are poisoned weapons not affected by + to wound abilities anymore? They say that you need "unmodified" rolls. So for example dark technomancers does not benefit poison or am i wrong here...?

Thats why also poisoned tongue says that it improves the target number of poisoned weapons instead of just saying +1 to wound with poson

Yeah. But poisoned weapons also have Str values now, so wound mods won't affect the poison ability but it might help in certain situations.

Pre ordered my codex today along with the new patrol box. I don’t need the raider or the archon so might try and get a few quid back via eBay.

I have no hellions so I’m very envious of you guys with literally loads of them! That may be next on my list.

So far Black Heart are a solid Kabal choice. Strife or Red Grief for Cult and I’m not sure yet on Coven as I don’t have much Coven.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Pre ordered my codex today along with the new patrol box. I don’t need the raider or the archon so might try and get a few quid back via eBay.

I have no hellions so I’m very envious of you guys with literally loads of them! That may be next on my list.

So far Black Heart are a solid Kabal choice. Strife or Red Grief for Cult and I’m not sure yet on Coven as I don’t have much Coven.

i think the cult of strife supplement will make you rethink that, some amazing stratagems and one crazy warlord trait in there

I'm very excited for my Drukhari in 9th ed. I wasn't sure with the thoughts and opinions from this thread but after watching the Skari stream my initial impressions are very positive. I can perform well against my BA and UM friends with our 8th ed codex, with all these new tools under my belt I'm worried they won't want to play me

As things look now, I'm very excited for my future games but I'm aware that many more codexes are still to come and the balance landscape will dramatically change. I'm just going to ride this 9th ed power train as long as I can

Probably a fool's hope but any thoughts on an Archon with the Soul Seeker?

Tbh, I think the lack of menaingful buffs to an already mediocre relic and the fact that Archons now don't even get to reroll 1s to hit as standard has killed it before the codex has even dropped.

But if anyone thinks otherwise I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.

Hoping for some clarification. Does the new PoF Transhuman work on attacks Str 8 or higher or below Str 8? I’ve seen both versions mentioned in different forums?

sweetbacon wrote:

Hoping for some clarification.  Does the new PoF Transhuman work on attacks Str 8 or higher or below Str 8?  I’ve seen both versions mentioned in different forums?

Below S8.

It's... not actually very useful.

Thanks.

I think it’ll be useful for 20 man Wracks units.

I think for Grotesques and Talos you’re better off going all in on offense by taking as many Liquifiers as you can and going DT or maybe Coven of Twelve for the extra AP. Coven of Twelve Wracks could also be interesting for -2AP poison in melee.

Burnage wrote:

sweetbacon wrote:

Hoping for some clarification.  Does the new PoF Transhuman work on attacks Str 8 or higher or below Str 8?  I’ve seen both versions mentioned in different forums?

Below S8.

It's... not actually very useful.

Lol what? You do know it works on Wracks, Grots and Venoms, right? Tougher stuff like Raider or Talosi don't benefit as much, but being treated as de-facto T7 is very, very strong. You treat anything short of a Multi-Melta as a glorified Bolter.

mightydoughnut wrote:

Burnage wrote:

sweetbacon wrote:

Hoping for some clarification.  Does the new PoF Transhuman work on attacks Str 8 or higher or below Str 8?  I’ve seen both versions mentioned in different forums?

Below S8.

It's... not actually very useful.

Lol what? You do know it works on Wracks, Grots and Venoms, right? Tougher stuff like Raider or Talosi don't benefit as much, but being treated as de-facto T7 is very, very strong. You treat anything short of a Multi-Melta as a glorified Bolter.

Venoms and Grotesques were already T6 next to a Haemonculus - going to the equivalent of T7 is an improvement, and it removes them needing HQ support, but it's not anywhere near as powerful as the Marine equivalents we've been seeing that still work versus S8 and above.

Burnage wrote:

mightydoughnut wrote:

Burnage wrote:

sweetbacon wrote:

Hoping for some clarification.  Does the new PoF Transhuman work on attacks Str 8 or higher or below Str 8?  I’ve seen both versions mentioned in different forums?

Below S8.

It's... not actually very useful.

Lol what? You do know it works on Wracks, Grots and Venoms, right? Tougher stuff like Raider or Talosi don't benefit as much, but being treated as de-facto T7 is very, very strong. You treat anything short of a Multi-Melta as a glorified Bolter.

Venoms and Grotesques were already T6 next to a Haemonculus - going to the equivalent of T7 is an improvement, and it removes them needing HQ support, but it's not anywhere near as powerful as the Marine equivalents we've been seeing that still work versus S8 and above.

Yeah, but they get other benefits. It's not as good as some marines get, but also do remember, that it's much more limited there, than it is here.

Have we already discussed that wyches -according to goonhammer- have lost one wych weapon per ten dudes?

I think I misread. Did they get the deathguard treatment and we can only take one of each, unless the squad numbers 20, where we can take two of each?

AzraeI wrote:

Have we already discussed that wyches -according to goonhammer- have lost one wych weapon per ten dudes?

I think I misread. Did they get the deathguard treatment and we can only take one of each, unless the squad numbers 20, where we can take two of each?

Yeah, which will make things awkward if nothing else.

Also, no wych weapons at all in 5-man squads for some reason.

That makes sense, of course

I could get behind their stupid "not in the box, not in the rules" mentality if it were applied equally, but that's not the case if you look at marines, crons and heck even our reavers.

The box doesn't contain a power sword or agoniser, but the champion can take one?!

I am just happy I can enjoy Triple Ravager Triple Kabalite Raiders lists again, now with extra Incubi sauce. The new Splinter Racks are awesome, allow you to peel freely from a safe distance, new Toxin buffs, stratagems and Obsessions allow to Slisscus up in this bitch a lot and I love it.

I wasnt able to spot a wych leak in all the pics I saw. Struggling to theory craft without it.

albions-angel wrote:

I wasnt able to spot a wych leak in all the pics I saw. Struggling to theory craft without it.

Might this have what you're looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1X_gyBHLBA

If I had to make a pre-evaluation of the new codex, before read it in detail and with the storm of new information still hitting in my brain, I would say that I'm relatively satisfied.

1- They fix up the transport capacity. To me that was a mandatory point. This same codex without that would be a mess to me.

2- Usefull melee HQ. I know that lot of you wants HQ thar buffing units or cheap. I like them to be beast of nature, I can't conceive a lider of an incursión of DE being a office worker while is happening a bloody Party.

3- Definited roles. Almost all units has been designed to fullfil a specific rol. Wyches are not best than incubi or hellions anymore, now are diferent. The problem is that still are units that do nothing, like beasts and the court, and has been that way since 6th. GW have no idea about what to do with them, and that is a problem in a codex with less than 30 datasheets. They should redo that units from 0 even if that means change their lore. And of course there is the fall to hell of the scourges. That have no explanation.

4- The horde army... I don't know. I have 60 warriors, maybe 30/40 wyches, and 15 wracks. I always thinked that they were enought, I'm still reticent to buy more. I don't like gw philosophy of "no new drukhari models", so if I buy more they will be from raging heroes. I like the models and are cheaper.

5- Obsesions, relics, etc. looks cool. I need read them in detail, but obssesions seems very diverse and viable, and that means more fun and easy adaptation to the changes of meta. There are still lots of codex to be released, and the meta will change plenity of times.