6th Ed rumors and DE

So with Ruke on this one - I'm not too fussed on what gets nerfed at our end, I'm gonna focus on what we can do, as I have already stated a few pages back.....DE is my only army, its gonna stay that way too!

Rapid Fire 24", Haywire, DL's/Blasters and Multiple Large Blast - those are the way forward IMO.

Levitas wrote:

Has anyone had the rule book and played some games? Its easy to assume the worst, and granted it looks bad right now, but I doubt any of us on here have tested DE in 6th so the truth is we just dont know the whole picture.

Amen, brother. Everyone is so caught up in how Terminators are going to be invincible (Who cares, they move 6 inches a turn, and your ENTIRE army moves 24 inches a turn), and how Dark Eldar aren't going to be able to compete 'cause they can't just slaughter a few uncommon units anymore (Not that they ever could, Hamminators are hard nut for DE to crack under 5th ed too). I totally expect Agonizers to be AP2, BTW, it's the only way to justify their points cost.

Dark Eldar are extremely mobile, they're the cavalry of Warhammer 40K. If you don't like the idea of using mobility to refuse/uncontest flanks and snatch objectives against stronger enemies, don't play them! Guess what, under 5th edition, Dark Eldar will get absolutely annihilated if they make a headlong charge against Marines like Black Templars, Gray Knights, Blood Angels, etc. (I cannot even count the number of times I've shot apart alpha striking DE with my Templars, and then charged the survivors) If you're expecting to be able to just charge them directly into enemy lines and win, you're playing the wrong army. Stop whining about changes to firepower and armor, look at the mobility side, that's how Dark Eldar have ALWAYS WORKED. I see some positive changes to fliers and improvements to gunboats, how can you complain about that?

Plague wrote:

To all those that are jumping ship and crying "OMGWTFNERF!", good riddance. You never had what it takes to lead a kabal anyhow!

Spoken like a true archon

What is this sniveling, are we not the children of Commorragh or do we now cry over things that have not yet come to pass like our mis-guided cousins?

Are these Archons so young that they do not remember the times before the Overtyrant captured the Architect Kelly and ushered in our new glorious age of pain and despair? The times when most of the galaxy remained ignorant to our grandeur and power, where to deploy a Dark Eldar army was meet by cries of "Wow, I've never even seen Dark Eldar let alone played them". Where at tournaments deployment was spent essentially reading them our codex. Where players would smirk at how easy their victory was going to be over us.

I remember. I remember how sweet it was to watch that smirk turn to anguish after turn 1, when most of their tanks were crippled, their elite units turned to slag under multiple disintegrators and the exquisite pain as I neatly removed the head from their warlord before he could even move.

These are the memories I take with me moving on to this new edition. Let cowards and the infirm remain behind to mope in fear of 2+ saves and bad assaults. I, Archon Zalicant Syndiere, Lord of the Kabal of The Dead Rose will gather my warriors and wait before the gates of 6th ready to carve my name into a new landscape of flesh, to make sure that never again will any warlord smirk at my coming and that all races know their place in OUR galaxy. Who will stand with me and who will crawl back to their palaces to hide until 7th?

I also swear, on the power of my Kabal, that my first kill will be some upstart Terminator!

/me Cheers!

Ah, well again a Welcome to another Soul that entered the dark City. Please Take a cookie and wait with us for the FAQ Massanger ;-)

I guess your comment on how someone could DARE to say 2D6" is better than 1D6" +6" was directed at me. You seem to have missread my post, so i'll say it again, why it is not all that bad.

First of all, you are right. 1D6" + 6" is better if you do not assault through cover, or out of cover. So in the rare cases it really is saver. There i am with you that it is wose than befor but that is not a death sentence for assault.

Now if you assault into cover, you have 1D6" + 2D6" and use the highest. Thats about the same as sync 2D6", or isn't it? It may not be mathhammer equal, but roughly the same. And as enybody without grenades was always a dead man walking(looking at you Inccubi) we can savely assume, that assaulting into/through cover is more likely.

I hope you get it now, that it is not that bad. Yes we lost 3" through the new disembark rules, but seriously you could get up to 29". That is OP and you know it. Now its "just" 26". You realy cant complain.

And reguarding CC. I guess that, just as in 5th, removing CC casualties is the same as removing shooting casualties, in CC we will be taken from front to back, just as with shooting.
combine that with the new only 3" consolidating in your own Ini phase, that changes Combat for a good bit.
Example

M_M_R_M_M
M_M_S_M_M___A with M= Marine;R= Marine with Rocketlauncher;S=Seargent;A=Archon

All Marines are standing around 1" from each other, now the archon Charges.

M_M_R_M_M
M_M_S_M_MA

No one gets to move in, as the Archon hits forst. Let ours say our Archon Kills3, casulties would need to be taken from the front.

M_M_R_M
M_M_S_____A
Now the Marines can Move up to 3"


___M_M_R
___M_M_S_MA

Now the M nearest to the Archon can hit the Archon, and the Sergeant and the Rocketlauncher can hit the Archon, cause of the Marine in B2B with the Archon. If the Marines(Red) after the Seargent was more than 1" away from the Seargent, he will not be able to hit the archon.

So only 3 will be able to hit the archon. Thats great news. So with the new removal of casulties it seems that we are saver in Combat than befor and thus it is just fair, that it is a bit harder to reach combat.


@Sorrowshard: Well sad that your archon did nothing for you. How was he equippted? Agoniser Archon. He is no use, as he sadly lost all of his potencial, that he had in the last dex.

@dominus nox: I remember the good old days with charge ranges of 35" Archon "Cruise missile" Assaultrange! Those where the days my friends...

And i accompanie your hunt of the so called glarious Terminators!
I guess my Archons base is a tribute to it!


sláinte

Something interesting i want to show you.
Here is a Link to BoLS where one of the members has the new book and took some pictures. The picture shows the Force weapon section. And there it states that, if a weapon looks like an Axe or a halberd it counts as force axe. That means no more Ini 6 GK as force axe are unwieldy thus go to Ini1 and then to 3 due to their +2Ini rule.

I guess we can count our Inccubi Klaivars as Axes too. So DS2 and Ini1. That would explain why they do not need grenades, hahaha.

and that would mean, DE where intended for 6th Edition...

Force weapons are different from power weapon, and btw there is the paragraph about "unusual force weapon" that says something entirely different

Quote :

shots shot at skimmers must be "snap shot" which are hit on 6s unless you have the "skyfire" special rule

This is good for us and our vehicles, right? Lessens the chance of getting a hit and even if they do we get our 5+ save. I'm not sure how many people will have the skyfire rule but I do believe that it is limited to flyers and fortifications with weapons. I'm pretty sure this benefits us, you know, seeing as how our ENTIRE ARMY has skimmer vehicles.

Crazy_Irish wrote:

I guess we can count our Inccubi Klaivars as Axes too. So DS2 and Ini1. That would explain why they do not need grenades, hahaha.

and that would mean, DE where intended for 6th Edition...

I was guessing JUST THAT right now LOL

well, It's a PW, two-handed (unwielding, it needs additional grips), and it gives +1S. So Incubi will probably get I1.So no need for PGL Archon anymore haha.

We don't know the whole thing about assaults. Everything that "nerfs" us also nerfs other armies... How will GK defeat TEQs? At least we have a lot of lances and dissies, and it will be easier now to pop termies' Land Raiders and shoot them to death.

I'll be buying some Scourges soon.. HW blasters FTW!!!

@Plague: Im not sure where you got your quote from, but i am pretty sure someone misplaced skimmers with flyers. Snap shots are only needed against flyers.

Ereshkigal wrote:

Force weapons are different from power weapon, and btw there is the paragraph about "unusual force weapon" that says something entirely different

I know that they are different, but they always where Power weapons with extra rules, not something entirely different. also, a Klaivar isn't that unusual if you compair the rules to a axe. Its only +1S. seems pretty equal. and if would clearly explain why the F*** the kelly did not give'em grenades.

A pretty good example for unusual power weapons be the agoniser.

So my 2 cents go on Agonisers beeing DS3 and Klaivars beeing AP2.

If you see it different, have it your way. I have nothing but my mind to back up my claim, and my mind has been declared crazy by a good bunch of people ;-)

sláinte

Ok i've the rulebook. I go to pick it up in 2 hours, then i can tell you everything you need.

I think the priority for us would be finding out what our power weapons do, as well as how do our open topped vehicles work now.

Wait for my lunch break so : )

Hell yeah!!


Agonisers
Huskblade
Incubi
Grenade Launchers--> any new rule?
Our raiders (fast skimmers) can Zoom??
Jink rule vs flickerfields??
What can disembarking units do?? do open-topped count as assault transport still?
Does Jink rule stack with the nightfighting +2 to cover?? or

AFAIK... Open topped is the same as other vehicles, but fire and access points everywhere. +1 in the damage chart as before.

New things we can do with our vehicles...
You can snap fire while moving at cruising speed (raiders will be better due to splinter racks)
You can Overwatch charging units with your embarked troops, as with any other vehicle. (the same as before with raiders )

you won't be shooted as a flyer unless we can Zoom, but we get the Jink rule...

Ereshkigal wrote:

Ok i've the rulebook. I go to pick it up in 2 hours, then i can tell you everything you need.

great! could you then open up a second thread where you only summarize your answers and no one else posts questions?
They we could ask here, and have a summary, to find all the answers. that way this will not end like on all the other boards.

My first question would be how exactly the CC phase works as i do not think we will finde any DE CC weapon rules in the main RB.

BRB is here. 1,8kg ... it's huge! But i need my lunch break to open it and write about it. I've to tell you one thing btw, my translation won't be accurate because my rulebook is in italian.

you should better open a new post as Crazy_Irish proposed.

If there's a DE errata in the book already, then tell us the changes!!!

I don't know, but I still fancy the Baron and 20 Hellions, using outflank from the warlords traits as the basis of my army. 12" move on 2D6 re-rollable assault with 1 impact hit and 3 attacks on the charge. With that movement should be pretty much be able to reach anywhere and wreck face.
At the minute I'm not overly concerned, there will be opportunities to tune the list to be powerful again

kenny3760 wrote:

much be able to reach anywhere and wreck face.

i read wrack faces. i find it kind of fitting ;-)

But you forgot to shoot bevor you assault, thats another 2 shots each.

DE things able to deny 2+ saves as far as we know right now without the new FAQs

In CC...
Everything that Ignore Saves: Lelith, the Duke at 5+ to wound (long life to the Duke ) , harlequin kisses and razorwing flocks (6s to wound rolls), Talos and Chronos.
and that's all if I'm not wrong.


in the shooting phase
Dark light weaponry
Dissies
Heat lances
Void Lances and mines
Implosion missiles
Heamy's and Martyr sniper rifles at 6s to wound.
Shattershard and Orbs from Haemys
everything with 1D6 AP: liquifers, the things from the court, other heamys stuff

every one of these carried by infantry can be shot in the enemy assault phase if we snap fire (as long as they are not blasts)

Wythes are goign to be screwed from overwatch, sinc ethey really don't liek getting shot at. The loss of chrage distance I don't think is a huge nerf, especially when we can now flat out 30'' instead of 24'' (I've only rarely been able to assault out of a Raider anyway. Usually the bloody thign gets blown up and the Wytches have to climb from the wreckage and run to cc). Hopefully they'll FAQ our ccws. Seems kind stupid that a) while power axes, swords, hammers, staffts etc. have their own rule, power whips and klaives are the same as swords b) there are ap2 power weapons, but none of the 6 or so non-standard power weapons we have is one. Characters suckign agaisnt Terminators isn't just our problem tho. How many characters can you name that have power fists? (Lysander, Kantor, Calgar, Ghaz, Yarrick...The point is most characters have basic power weapons, or non-standard ones thta would apparently count as ap3 due to not being axes or fists). Even if they ignore agonizers, it would seem just wrong that 250-point close combat monsters like Vect, Draigo or Abbadon can't kill a 30 point basic Terminator. So at the very least I expect special characters to be getting soem ap2 weapons.

I really think people are blowing this overwatch thing outta proportion.

This is a discussion about the rumors and how they effect DE. Please keep all the negativity and talks about negitivity out of this thread. Everyone is allowed their own oppinions and interpretations of the rules

Sorrowshard wrote:

So you are lucky ? well done to you , have a gold star ...

and why do you say that? I have given you cold hard mathhammer facts here. Its not about luck or not. The Archon vastly outpreforms any generic HQ. We just have a higher probability of ID most generic HQs than even a TH/SS captain. We have more attacks, hit more often, and have a better invul than him. Yes, he wound easier, but 3 things > 1. In 5th the Archon has no purpose, heck, no offensive HQ has a purpose, as they dont kill their points value. But in 6th the challenge system might strengthen the Archon to actually make him viable competitively (if the huskblade is AP2) as he will just walk around and challenge anything that moves, and most of the time win.

Plus name 1 special character that can take out vect? (of than abaddon ofc) and I personally doubt there is one. With his high number of attacks plus re-rolls and wounding on 3s, I cant think of anything that can hold up to that.

Oh and btw... going through your Blog I found this little gem from you. Just some food for thought:

"Spirit Vortex – it’s a an ap3 large blast that generates tokens, what’s not to like ? , though it I a little pricey, needing 5’s to get wounds can hurt it though, unless of course unlike me you can roll well consistently."

from :http://bloodofkittens.com/rantineminor/2011/12/rave-review-engines-of-pain.html

Guess your rolling for spirit vortex doesnt carry over to wounding with a huskblade huh???

Huskblade right now, if not Faqed, is ap3. Vect is ap3 too and now can only rerolls 1s.