Feedback from Dark Eldar seminar

Azdrubael wrote:

Thats piece of crap, we play by the rules, not by background description of rules.
Unless there is a FAQ Banshees are armed with Power Weapons.

Old Banshess models actually have Axes.

I think the "Look at the weapon the model is armed with to determine what power weapon it is" rule was designed with the spirit of fair play in mind, and although it doesn't explicitly say "What the stock model from the current range comes with", it can be presumed to mean that. Yes, there is a vagueness to the rules. But it's one of those where it's only as vague as the owning player wants it to be. Presumably this will be clarified in future codex releases with regard to what specific wargear, including one type of power weapon a unit or character can take. But if, in your heart of hearts (crystal or otherwise!) it feels exploitative, it probably is.

If GW wanted to change power weapons so as to make them different types then they really should have taken the time to go through each codex and FAQ each occurrence of power weapon to clarify what type it is.

Mushkilla, a necron warscythe is a very, very special weapon, that in 4th, gave the lord an mc hit vs tanks, and no saves, not even invuls may have been rolled against it.

Enfernux wrote:

Mushkilla, a necron warscythe is a very, very special weapon, that in 4th, gave the lord an mc hit vs tanks, and no saves, not even invuls may have been rolled against it.

But Husk Blade is special too!

Mehh, what am I saying I'd probably still take a venom blade if they changed husk blades to be AP2.

hmm..how about taking the huskblade and the venom blade? You must decide, which's secial rules you want to use, the other counts as a ccw for that round...or for the number of attacks you designate it to, so kill mc with VB, buff your str with soultrap and then use the huskblade.

^ Very good plan. I love the huskblade, even with piffly strength of 3 and AP3. What can I say, I can't see why my most awesome archon of shiny toys would go to war sith a simple venom blade, it's just not flamboyant enough. Turning your enemies to dust even with a small scratch, now that's what I call archonly!

@Mushkilla. Each to their own of course and I can totally understand taking the venom blade if you're going after monstruous creatures etc, but you really wouldn't take the opportunity of instant death from a single wound against an enemy character?

My Archon rolls with a shadowshield and his fists.

It's tempting, but it's not cheap. I would rather get some night shields or other goodies that can protect my army as a whole.

Fair point, I tend to pick units in a slightly different way to most so my archon always gets all the toys but doesn't make many appearances in smaller point games. He is after all 'the man' so gets the best of the best but fully kitted out with court and raider he comes in around 450 points so anything less than a 2000pt game and he lets the succubus take the lead. Might consider dropping the court and taking him with incubi for a mid range game though.

Count Adhemar wrote:

If GW wanted to change power weapons so as to make them different types then they really should have taken the time to go through each codex and FAQ each occurrence of power weapon to clarify what type it is.

this is my feelings exactly. And its not like there are 20 army codex's out there. They could of easily went through each dex and been like *This weapon is this* not run a blanket statement in the rulebook about "unusual power weapons". Because they didnt we now have arguements like "Well... what power weapon does a Ork Burna have?" or "My Glavie Ecarmine just says its a master-crafted power weapon, so its now going to be a master-crafted power axe". Anyone who plays any game know people are going to look for loop-holes and ways around certain rules. I dont know why GW has their head up their butts and expect everyone to play nice in this "perfect little world"

Well, as i understand that rule it gives a lot of customising to any unit that have "Power Weapon" option.Anything else is AP3 + Special Rules of the named item. Thats a pretty clear rule. No parts about it saying anything about stock items etc.

Model anything you like and take it. There is no rules on modeling, except red paint or similiar things.

And that is a good rule, i really like it. Offsets some of the codexes downsides, like Autarach incapable of anything with S3, but he can take Spear for S4 on first turn etc. And its not abuse in any way, cause its not really that powerfull.
You can take more strenght, but lose AP3. More strenght AND AP3 but only when charging. AP2 but at extremely low initiative.
Its about choice. And choice is good. Thats about what you should get for 10-15 points of power weapon.

But when someone said no no, dont use rulebook rule and use codex background entry thats just killer.
FAQ it ti be power swords or dont even say these things loud.

Burna is AP3.
Glaive Encarmine is customisable. Although in the case of Sangui Guard thats really unclear and sort of recurring.Will be FAQed im sure.

Azdrubael wrote:

Burna is AP3.
Glaive Encarmine is customisable. Although in the case of Sangui Guard thats really unclear and sort of recurring.Will be FAQed im sure.

now why is that??? Ofc common sense would say you are right, but lets look at the rules. Remember unusual power weapons are only for weapons with special rules attached to it, not something that says its a power weapon. So the burna is counted as a "power weapon" if they dont use the flamer. The difference is now power weapon is as modeled right? So lets look at my burna... Oh wait... he has a ax in his off hand, and carries a sword, spear, and maul on his back... Oops... guess I get to choose

Same arguement for a glaive encarmine. It says its a "master crafted power-weapon" But lets look at it... oh look, its a axe... so does that mean its a master crafted power axe??? what about if its a spear??? a maul???

They should of seen things like this coming. And it just shows how much "playtesting" they actually did... its sad for me when a game company doesnt consider itself what it truely is... a gaming company...

If the source in this thread on BoLS is correct, then the huskblade may be given AP2 in the next DE FAQ.

I would wait a bit for things to settle down before remodeling my characters with weird weapon combinations.

Barking Agatha wrote:

I would wait a bit for things to settle down before remodeling my characters with weird weapon combinations.

lol I was just using the extreme versions of the problem to exagerate and show where GW has gone wrong. Hopefully this next round of FAQs will fix some of these issues.

For me personally its easy to understand. If the weapon that is giving the effect of the "power weapon" has a special name (so not power weapon, but say burna or glaive encarmine) then its an unusual power weapon. So take this for example.

Banshees- Equipment says Power Weapon, so its as modeled
Burna Boy- The burna is the power weapon, so its an unusual power weapon
Sanguary Guard- a glaive encarmine is a named type of power weapon, so its an unusual power weapon

if you take it any other way, we get some stupid stuff (like Belial's Sword of Silence becoming a Spear of Silence)

duno what the hangup is, banshees dont need p.axes, they need their
swords...and furious charge would be recomended but everything else
is fine and dandy with them. The rules change, and after half a month of
whining, so do i adapt to them...basically not changing much of my army


but with my eldar, i am starting to get all my biel tan models...well
correctly eldar models and am gona paint'em biel tan, and i will use
more pathfinders, cause they are awesome now, i am gona use psypowers,
for they are glowing glitter stones in a dark cave...and i am going to
abuse ravagers, when i will use them again

Shadows Revenge wrote:

Barking Agatha wrote:

I would wait a bit for things to settle down before remodeling my characters with weird weapon combinations.

lol I was just using the extreme versions of the problem to exagerate and show where GW has gone wrong. Hopefully this next round of FAQs will fix some of these issues.

i wouldnt use my banshees any other way than stock. P.axes, halberds are just not...just not eldar. Can you imagine an archon in terminator armor, not for its benefits, but for its looks? Can you imagine a lowly sybarite with a halberd? Where the hell did he get it anyaway?

And banshees are just to proud to take up axes, for they are unwieldy, slow, not as agile and sleek as a space elf.

You might want to check out some of the old banshee models then, one of them definitely had a power axe!
I do agree with you to an extent though, the way banshees are now power axes would just be wrong.

I do actually like the new rule though, and to use the glaive encarmine example, the specific wording in the rulebook is that if it has its own unique rules. A glaive encarmine IIRC is just master crafted, so for the sword models you'd use AP3, for the axe versions you'd use AP1 & I1. Burnas (whilst i don't have the codex) would just be AP3, it's clearly not an axe, regardless of whether the model itself also carries an axe/spear etc.

This is the worst part of the rulebook. Seriously.

tlronin wrote:

This is the worst part of the rulebook. Seriously.

My personal pet hate is the situation that arises when two rules conflict and the player whose turn it is decides what happens on that occasion. So when the exact same thing happens again later in the same game on the other players turn there is a different outcome!

its not the worst, but clearly the one that strikes those hardest, who have a finesse army...well at least army type
i was gay for banshees, but with them having to survive a round of shooting before they can assault...i went with avengers and bladestorm...now that foot has gotten better, or rather, mech got nerfed, ima gettin meself some wraithguards and lords and a ton of guardians and lock and the like...and an avatar.
incubi have klaives, archon has venom blades, as do hekatrix, so basically, noone i use has power weapon, whilst this doesnt affect me *joyfull dance

Well, I mean the whole power weapon section. Nothing to do but wait for the FAQs...

Enfernux wrote:

P.axes, halberds are just not...just not eldar. Can you imagine an archon in terminator armor, not for its benefits, but for its looks? Can you imagine a lowly sybarite with a halberd? Where the hell did he get it anyaway?

Our current Succubus model? :p

The old Incubi, the current Succubus, Feugan and technically the current Hellions all disagree with you. They've all got different forms of glaives/halberds/axes, the Howling Banshee Executioner is technically a halberd, and so on. The Striking Scorpion Exarch even uses a power claw. The Eldar don't exlusively use power swords and other "graceful" weapons. Even a power claw can be wielded gracefully, if the user is skilled enough.

Not to mention Jain Zar and Maugan Ra. The old Howling Banshees, as already mentioned, had axes. Also, in Path of the Seer, an Autarch is described as having a fusion pistol, Banshee mask and power axe. Agonisers are mentioned as having numerous different forms as well with the whip simply being the most common.

Just because swords and spears are favoured doesn't mean axes, halberds and fists/claws aren't used. The only weapon I would say isn't Eldar is a maul.

Hellions use double edged pika's or please make them power weapons,
incubi use two handed swords, aka glaives for more killing, Fuegan uses a
one handed molten axe, that doesnt reduce his grace, where does Maugan
Ra have a weapon that hinders him?
A striking scorp claw is a traditional weapon, how meny other eldar do you see with powerfists?
And does the Executioner that banshee exarchs and Jain Zar have hinder speed, mobility and agility? No.

Aroshamash wrote:

Our current Succubus model? :p

venom blade, power weapon*, agoniser, electro whip.
power weapon: compared to her other loadouts shouldnt hinder her speed.

i know im just ranting, but i hope the fluff-reason can be seen here.

I believe Aroshamash said old Incubi, not the current Incubi, thereby talking about their halberds, not klaives. As for Fuegan's axe, you said yourself that axes are un-eldar. Maugan Ra has a large blade attached to his shuriken cannon which some could say slightly gets in his way. The executioners are 2 handed so you could argue they hinder their agility and are similar to halberds which was one of the weapons you said was un-eldar. As for the Succubus, note that Aroshamash said model, not rules. The Succubus model has an electrocorrosive whip in her right hand and a large, halberd-like power weapon in her left.

yes, old incubi, sry on that :S
i said p.axes arent, for they hinder speed, not axes, p.axes. His axe isnt a p.axe, for it doesnt hinder speed, rather gives him MC hitting power in cc.
the executioner is a two handed weapon but still doesnt hinder speed, and is a sword. A two handed at that but a sword none the less
Succubus...cant that be an impaler? Or a power lance?
Halberd

Lance/spear


Edit: forgot: GW isnt known for being realistic, so i'll overlook this thing about halberds appearance