which is best? 1500 lists

I started DE/40k about two months ago and have been slowly building and painting my army. (I am tediously when it comes to painting). I have yet to play a game and have been having quite a bit of trouble coming up with a competitive list. It seems that my favorite models/characters all happen to have the worst outcomes on the table...Drazhar, Lelith, Mandrakes, hordes of wytchs etc. Last night I attempted to come up with a couple 1500 point list so I could begin to make smarter purchases. Have a look at em and please tear them apart if they are total garbage. The models I currently have are:

1 Haemonculus
10 Wyches
20 Kabalite warriors
5 Wracks
5 Scourges
1 Venom
1 Raider

and the models I am partial to are Wyches, Succubus/Lelith, Incubi, Beasts/Beastmaster, Scourges, Razorwings.

Any help or tips are greatly appreciated


1500 point lists


Number 1

HQ- 155
Archon w/ venomblade & shadowfield- 95
Haemonculus w/ liquefier- 60

Elites- 202
6 Incubi in raider with dark lance & night shield

Troops - 580
10 Warriors w/ splinter cannon in raider w/ dark lance & night shield- 170
10 Warriors w/ splinter cannon in raider w/ dark lance & night shield- 170
5 Wracks- Acothyst, venom blade in venom w/ night shield- 137
4 Wracks- Acothyst, venom blade in venom w/ night shield- 125

Fast Attack - 260
5 Scourges w/2 haywire blaster X 2


Heavy Support- 310
2 Razorwing Jet Fighters w/ dissies & night shields

Total- 1507 (a little high :/ )

Number 2
HQ- 135
Succubus w/ venom blade& haywire grenades- 75
Haemonculus w/ liquefier- 60

Troops- 569
Wyches x 5 w/ haywire grenades in venom w/ night shields- 135
Wyches x 4 w/ haywire grenades- 48 in venon w/ night shield- 113
10 Warriors w/ splinter cannon in raider w/ dark lance & night shield- 170
9 Warriors w/ splinter cannon in raider w/ dark lance & night shield- 160

Fast Attack - 466
5 Scourges w/2 haywire blaster -130
3 Beastmasters each w/ 2 flocks- 276
1 Beastmaster w/ 4 khymerae - 50

Heavy Support- 330
2 Razorwing Jetfighters w/ dissies, splinter cannon & night shields-

Total- 1500 on the nose!

Fast Attack in your list 2, the points are horrifcally wrong.......

Your 9 man Warriors unit is illegal

You cannot field 4 Wyches

^ and NS arent needed on RWJF, more FF, the points stay.

2nd list, 2nd squad of wyches is illegal, minimum squad size for wyches is 5

other than that, the lists look promissing, but you know me, not my type ^^ but being a few points above the agreed, that isnt much of a problem in friendlies. In tourneys, it is a problem

anyway, on personall preference: the list with the incubi

I'd say that the second list is more diverse and looks more survivable, but I would go for list one in a friendly game. If you want to win then go for number two, depending on what you are facing.

Woah I made a lot of mistakes :p thanks for the responses. I made some changes to the second list and correctly added the points aha. Decided to take a Baron to run with the beasts, so I gotta bump the succubus or the haemonculus. I wanted to put the haemie with the wracks in the venom at the closest objective and just have them hold that...any advice would be great!

HQ-
Baron- XXX (since this is a fixed point cost we can not show it due to copyright reasons - thanks, Kwi)

Succubus w/ venom blade& haywire grenades- 75

OR Haemonculus w/ liquifier- 60

Troops-
3 Wracks, Acothyst, hexrifle- in venom w/ night shields- 175
5 Wyches w/ haywire grenades in venon w/ night shields- 135
10 Warriors w/ splinter cannon in raider w/ dark lance & night shields- 170
10 Warriors w/ splinter cannon in raider w/ dark lance & night shields- 170

Fast Attack -
5 Scourges w/2 haywire blaster -130
5 Scourges w/2 haywire blaster -130
2 Beastmasters each w/ 2 flocks- 216; 1 Beastmaster w/ 5 khymerae - 72

Heavy Support-
Voidraven Bomber w/ night shield, 2 monoscythe and two shatterfield- 185

Total- 1503

Looking alot better, but still don't understand you're points costing on your Beast unit. Am I right in saying that its:

1 Beastmaster unlocks 5 Khymera = 72
1 Beastmaster unlocks 2 Razorwing Flocks = 42
1 Beastmaster unlocks 2 Razorwing Flocks = 42

II don't know how you get to 216 pts.....?

I also think you're kinda low on AT, esp on T1. The 2 Scourge units are good for about 1 HP each, and then you have only 2 DL's following on from that. Give it a go, just keep those Haywire Wyches safe so they can do their best )

@ 1++ isn't each flock composed of 4 individual models? So 8 models per beast master? Or am I completely wrong haha

1++ has it cirrect. Each BM is allowed 2 flocks; it doesn't matter how many pieces of each model there are. Keep in mind that each "flock" is on one base.

Also, your Venom squads are way off on points. EDIT: To clarify, the Wyches should be 60 (squad) + 65 (transport, and the Wracks should be 55 (squad) + 65 (transport), assuming you didn't take the extra cannons.

Assuming you keep the Haemonculus (because if you drop him, you lose the ability to take Wracks as troops), you end up with 139 points to work with I believe. With that, I'd get a Ravager with either NS or FF (your choice, depending more on your local meta as well), a Hex rifle for the Haemonculus (to put him with the Wracks), and a Venom Blade for one of the Beastmasters.

Also, the Voidraven is costed wrong. It should be 10 points more.

I'd go for all Shatterfield, or you can do what was suggested to me and either drop all the missles (saving 40 points, possible for a cheap Wrack squad to camp on an objective) or switch to the Razorwing, which would save you points as well, since the missiles are cheaper on it.

Just a few more thoughts.

Deyfluff wrote:

@ 1++ isn't each flock composed of 4 individual models? So 8 models per beast master? Or am I completely wrong haha

No mate, eac Beastmaster can unlock up to a capped number of models. See how it says 0-5 or 0-2 models...

So if you want 5 Khymera, you must take 1 Beastmaster. If you want 6 Khymera you must take 2 Beastmasters.....

But don't worry, a lot of ppl had the exact same confusions when first looking at these guys.

@ somerandomdue: Well derp derp. I am super great at addition :p I switched to all shatterfield, gave the haemie a hexrifle and added a ravager for more heavy support. thanks for the advice. It helped me lots.

@ 1++ : thank you for clarifying that. The wording in the codex was quite confusing.