Is the Doom of Mymeria updated yet?

Noone saw warlord traits I assume? I went back over the thread but the only new thing I found was someone making fun of me

Are we sure they have warlord traits? They don't have artefacts, after all.

What is the void hardened armour do? It's 10pts for the reaver band. Also it is different than that voidplate harness.

colinsherlow wrote:

What is the void hardened armour do? It's 10pts for the reaver band.   Also it is different than that voidplate harness.  

I had to look it up myself, it's from the forgeworld zone mortalis supplement which is freely available here.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Zone_Mortalis_Expansion.pdf

If you don't feel like looking, zone mortalis is a smaller skirmish oriented system of about 500-1000 points each, played on a 2x2 or 4x4 table.  As the name implies, these skirmishes take place in some of the harshest conditions, including totally toxic land scapes or even the void of space.

Anything over strength 4 automatically gains rending in these areas to represent the chance of having your armor ruptured and having the environment overtake you.  If a weapon already has rending, it rends on a 5+.

Void armor ignores this effect.

TLDR; special rule in a special forgeworld game type that no-one usually plays.

The more I read about it though, the more I want to try it.

Assuming it's the same as Horus Heresy, it allows the wearer to re-roll failed saves against templates and blasts, while reducing Run, Charge and Sweeping Advance distance by 1". Also negates Rending in Zone Mortalis.

So not for regular 40k

I thought the armor gave a 3+/5++ but you lose fleet...
Not sure though

Skulnbonz wrote:

I thought the armor gave a 3+/5++ but you lose fleet...
Not sure though

You might be thinking of Voidplate Harness (which some Corsairs can also buy). It removes fleet but gives them a 3+ save and lets them reroll all difficult and dangerous terrain rolls. It also gives them Void Hardened Armour, just to confuse matters further.

In any case, it seems far too expensive even on HQ models. e.g. for 15pts I can give my Corsair Prince a 3+ save and a reroll on difficult/dangeros terrrain tests, at the cost of losing fleet. Or, for 15pts, I can give him a 3+ save, T4, a 12" move, a 36" flat-out move, a 2d6" assault jump move and the ability to just ignore most terrain (unless actually landing in it) at the cost of losing... nothing.

I had the same confusion myself.  I suspect it's because the rumors that leaked out jumbled up the two - and even in the official list the harness is described "void hardened armor", which is something I was unfamiliar with.

I was reading it as 10 points granting 3+ armor on up to 20 reavers in a band.  That would honestly be absurd, as they'd be cheaper than space marines with similar armor and better firepower.

The void harness seems to be designed specifically for zone mortalis games, as along with ignoring one of the major rules in that style of mission, you can re-roll the many dangerous terrain tests that these games will also force.

stilgar27 wrote:

I was reading it as 10 points granting 3+ armor on up to 20 reavers in a band.  That would honestly be absurd, as they'd be cheaper than space marines with similar armor and better firepower.

They'd have better firepower but worse strength and toughness and wouldn't have Krak Grenades or ATSKNF.

Furthermore, if you actually used 20 of them, then you're also removing all transport options from a squad with no long-range guns. You could give them Jetpacks, but that would cost 100pts for the squad, putting them well over the cost of a marine (you'd also wasting points on a 4+ armour the Jet Packs come with).

10pts to give 20 Reavers a 3+ save is almost certainly too cheap (though, as above, taking 20 Reavers does come with some serious costs and downsides). But, what about 10pts to give 5 Reavers a 3+ save? Would that be too cheap also?

I guess I'm curious about what price you'd consider reasonable.

12 or even up to 14 points per model would be fair enough for me.  I realize you'd be getting less durability than tactical marines for the same price, but... that's space marines.

Fire dragons get 3+ armor and are 22 points, but that includes a melta bomb and gun so it's impossible to make a direct comparison.  Reavers are also troops, and in general troops pay much more for less.

As for finding a use for units 20 reavers?  Aethermancy and mutli-phase key generators makes mobility a lot more manageable.  Other options like haywire grenades, or dissonance breachers make these large units even more flexible for roughly a point or less each.  Buy 4 divination psykers levels (3 in command crew, 1 on baron) to get misfortune and now you can easily kill just about anything you can land that on.  A 200 point unit throwing 60 rending shots 24" seems like a pretty good bargain to me.

This strategy will still probably work for the most part, but it's 1/3 less durable without the 3+ armor.

Fire dragons are 22.

So the 3+ can be taken in regular games? Confused.
I want to run small durable units with a 3+ if possible. Maybe 1-2 units in scouting OBJs falcons.

The 3+ armor (voidplate harness) is only available to characters and costs 15 points a model, shredder was asking me what I thought would be fair price for it on troops - it was totally hypothetical, sorry.

The Void hardened armor upgrade can be taken in any game but it's debatable what it actually does.  I found this in the tyrant's legions rules today.

Void hardened armour: A model equipped with void
hardened armour may re-roll failed saves made against
weapons of either the Template or Blast type and reduces
the distance rolled for Charges, Sweeping Advances and
Run moves by 1". Note that void hardened armour does
not bestow or modify a model’s armour save, and has some
additional effects when playing a Zone Mortalis game (as
noted in the Zone Mortalis rules).

But it's on power armor in that case.  We're going to need an FAQ on this, but even in the best case re-rolling the 5+ against blast or template weapons would have very little effect.  It might be handy on jetpack troops against flamers and frag stuff, but would probably need a large unit to make it cost effective.

I must have been fixing the fire dragon price while you were typing - I looked it up in battle scribe.  Thought a unit of fire dragons was 90 points for some reason.

stilgar27 wrote:

12 or even up to 14 points per model would be fair enough for me.

For a moment, I thought you meant the upgrade should cost 12-14pts per model. Excuse me while I pop my eyes back in...

But, yeah, that sounds reasonable.

stilgar27 wrote:

Fire dragons get 3+ armor and are 22 points, but that includes a melta bomb and gun so it's impossible to make a direct comparison.  Reavers are also troops, and in general troops pay much more for less.

I thought they usually payed the same but couldn't take as much, if you see what I mean. As in, SMs and Devastators pay the same points for Heavy Weapons, but the latter can take 5 of them.

stilgar27 wrote:

As for finding a use for units 20 reavers?  Aethermancy and mutli-phase key generators makes mobility a lot more manageable.

That's true, but you're still having to invest in mobility elsewhere.

stilgar27 wrote:

Other options like haywire grenades, or dissonance breachers make these large units even more flexible for roughly a point or less each.  Buy 4 divination psykers levels (3 in command crew, 1 on baron) to get misfortune and now you can easily kill just about anything you can land that on.  A 200 point unit throwing 60 rending shots 24" seems like a pretty good bargain to me.

But, that still requires you to invest in those psykers, roll the right power, succeed in casting that power, don't mishap while casting it.

It's certainly nice if you can get it off, but hardly foolproof. And, calling it a 200pt unit seems rather misleading as you're not factoring in the necessary psykers. Still a nice idea though.

Out of interest, how are you feeling about our psykers? Personally, I find that Perils of the Warp table terrifying. But, I could just be biased due to bad experiences in WH Fantasy (the Miscasts! Oh Godm the Miscasts! ).

stilgar27 wrote:

The 3+ armor (voidplate harness) is only available to characters and costs 10 points a model

15pts, but yeah.

It's actually the loss of fleet that puts me off it most. I don't trust myself to roll well on charge distances with only one try.

The Shredder wrote:

That's true, but you're still having to invest in mobility elsewhere.

But, that still requires you to invest in those psykers, roll the right power, succeed in casting that power, don't mishap while casting it.

It's certainly nice if you can get it off, but hardly foolproof. And, calling it a 200pt unit seems rather misleading as you're not factoring in the necessary psykers. Still a nice idea though.

You're right of course, 4 divination power will cost you at least 35 points in upgrades to required characters, then 90 more for the void dreamer.  Even then you'll only get you 4 chances at the power you want... but the rest of the chart is so solid it's hard not to argue they'd be worth it for their own sake.  I didn't mention for example that there's a decent chance that those 60 rending shots would have ignore cover for example, or for the unit firing them would have a 4++ save.  Then there is scryer's gaze, which is pretty much a game changer.

And you're also right that I'm not figuring in the cost of the psyker in my "200 point 60 rending attack" example, but the psyker in this case effectively gives the whole army that ability on that turn as long as they fire at his target.  Considering he need not be in the same unit, or even the same coterie to achieve this (take that internal politics), I'm not sure how I'd account for it.

But ya the psyker perils really suck.  If divination weren't so sexy I probably wouldn't even be considering psykers, let alone 3.

The Shredder wrote:

It's actually the loss of fleet that puts me off it most. I don't trust myself to roll well on charge distances with only one try.  

I have similar thoughts about the void hardened upgrade.  10 points to re-roll flamer and a bunch of blast weapons might be worth it, but not if we're reducing random movement (on a unit reliant on getting out of line of site) by 1.

stilgar27 wrote:

You're right of course, 4 divination power will cost you at least 35 points in upgrades to required characters, then 90 more for the void dreamer.  Even then you'll only get you 4 chances at the power you want... but the rest of the chart is so solid it's hard not to argue they'd be worth it for their own sake.  I didn't mention for example that there's a decent chance that those 60 rending shots would have ignore cover for example, or for the unit firing them would have a 4++ save.  Then there is scryer's gaze, which is pretty much a game changer.

And you're also right that I'm not figuring in the cost of the psyker in my "200 point 60 rending attack" example, but the psyker in this case effectively gives the whole army that ability on that turn as long as they fire at his target.  Considering he need not be in the same unit, or even the same coterie to achieve this (take that internal politics), I'm not sure how I'd account for it.

I know what you mean, but it just seems wrong not to include any psyker costs in the comparison. I agree that it's tricky though, when you'll probably be taking the psyker anyway and it can buff other units.

Not really sure there is a fair way to do the comparison. Maybe give the marines equal points of psykers, though even then you'll probably run into the issue of different formation/detachment allowances?

Nothing to do with comparisons, but I'm sad that Barons can't join Balestrike squads. It would be nice if you were able to give them Ignores Cover.

stilgar27 wrote:

But ya the psyker perils really suck.  If divination weren't so sexy I probably wouldn't even be considering psykers, let alone 3.

I think my main concern is Soul-wracked. Potentially sacrificing a Baron or even a Void Dreamer to cost a useful power is one thing. Sacrificing them to actively hurt my units (or help my opponent's) is quite another.

With regard to my Corsair Prince, I'm torn about which discipline to use. Divination is probably stronger (and has Precognition - which is amazing   ), but it also has a lot of high-cost (read: risky) powers. Telekinesis is a lot less flashy, but at least has more WC1 powers, as well as allowing the Prince to pull the 'shoot, Reckless Abandon, assault' trick.

Any thoughts on Corsair Prince psykers?

Corsairs have -3ld for regrouping, so a bad perils roll can break your whole army. It'd be safer to take a Farseer ally.

The corsair prince has S4 base right? That means s5 ap3 with a voidsaber, and a 33% chance for s6 with drugs though rage and rampage with reavers may be better.

Has anyone figured out what the best place for lances in a corsairs list is? Venoms, jetbikes, wasps?

Everyone in the balestrike unit is a character right? If you take "Collector" as your HQ trait then you can master craft their heavy ranged weapons for +10pts. Don't know if it's worth it but a reroll on bs4 lances is neat (they can take lances right?)

HokutoAndy wrote:

Corsairs have -3ld for regrouping, so a bad perils roll can break your whole army.

Well, only if your entire army is somehow all within 6" of the bloke who rolled perils.

HokutoAndy wrote:

It'd be safer to take a Farseer ally.

That applies to everything though. There's very little the other Eldar-y armies can do that some Eldar unit can't do better, cheaper and/or safer.

HokutoAndy wrote:

The corsair prince has S4 base right? That means s5 ap3 with a voidsaber, and a 33% chance for s6 with drugs though rage and rampage with reavers may be better.

That's correct. I'd probably lean towards Rampage/Rage. Firstly, it allows you to pull off various Shenanigans with Reckless Abandon. Second, you can give it to your entire army for free. And, because you have so much mobility, it's unlikely that you'll ever be forced to charge a unit you don't want to.

HokutoAndy wrote:

Has anyone figured out what the best place for lances in a corsairs list is? Venoms, jetbikes, wasps?

The only units I've compared so far are Cloud Dancers against Balestrikes.

5 Cloud Dancers w/ Dark Lances - 200
5 Balestrikes w/ Dark Lances and Jet Packs - 150
(I'd probably use units of 3 Cloud Dancers, but I've done 5 here for the sake of an even comparison)

So, the Balestrikes cost 25% less, but have:
No ObjSec
-1T
4+ armour instead of 3+
6" move
Can't Flat Out
Can't Jink

Is that worth a 25% discount? I'm leaning towards 'no'. But, since I own relatively few Jetbikes, I'll definitely be trying some Balestrikes.

HokutoAndy wrote:

Everyone in the balestrike unit is a character right? If you take "Collector" as your HQ trait then you can master craft their heavy ranged weapons for +10pts. Don't know if it's worth it but a reroll on bs4 lances is neat (they can take lances right?)

I believe you're thinking of the Voidstorm Band (who are an Elite choice, and can only take one special weapon per 5). Only the Blaestrike Felarch is a character.

Yeah, was thinking of the Voidstorm band, thanks for clarifying that.

The Corsairs have a rule where they can move 6" away from an opponent if they're within 12", does this happen before the effects of "Reavers" compulsory charge if they're within 8"? If so it seems like the drawback of "Reavers" is really easy to get around.

HokutoAndy wrote:

The Corsairs have a rule where they can move 6" away from an opponent if they're within 12", does this happen before the effects of "Reavers" compulsory charge if they're within 8"? If so it seems like the drawback of "Reavers" is really easy to get around.

Firstly, I should point out that no unit (including Reavers) has that rule by default - one of the Prince paths lets you take it for free on any/all of your units (which also gain Rage).

Regardless, if you take said Prince path, then I'd advise just giving that rule to all your units. As you say, it's very easy to get around the drawback. It also enables you to shoot one unit, use Reckless Abandon to get closer to a different unit, and then charge that unit.

Do Corsairs have relics of their own, or is the "collector" prince the only way they get access to relics? Not that I'm complaining as the voidsaber and balelight is already better than various sword n' pistol relics CWE/DE/Harlies get...

I'm wondering if there's some kind of funky combo to try out with CWE/DE/Harlie relics + Corsair stuff.

HokutoAndy wrote:

Do Corsairs have relics of their own, or is the "collector" prince the only way they get access to relics?

No, Corsairs don't have any relics of their own.

HokutoAndy wrote:

Not that I'm complaining as the voidsaber and balelight is already better than various sword n' pistol relics CWE/DE/Harlies get...

You really think the Blaelight is better? I'd take any of their relic pistols over it - Crescendo especially.

I mean, if it was a proper pistol then I'd agree. But, 15pts is a lot of points to pay for a pistol that can only fire once, and gets a pitiful 3d3 S3 shots (even with Blind and Rending).

I mean, Crescendo is 1/3 of the cost, but still gets 3 S4 shots with pseudo-rending.