Razorwing flock spam - its amazing

Wow GW is pretty quick to nerf things this edition. Flier spam and flocks already got nerfed. Think this was pretty a expected change eventually though, just maybe not this quick. I would say I feel bad for those who bought 100+ bird bases... but that honestly seemed like the lamest dark eldar list to play with or against that I've ever seen.

I think they can still be pretty useful as screening units for HQs, for example if you want to have a HQ on foot such as yvraine or shadowseer so they can use psychic powers.

I think it´s great. Now if they only had nerfed Brimstone Horrors too.

Good job by GW, reacting unexpectedly fast and dialing this cheese down.

I am glad Razorwing flocks go a point increase. But I think 14pts/flock is too many. Especially since you will want a beast master for another 60pts to keep the flocks from fleeing.

colinsherlow wrote:

I am glad Razorwing flocks go a point increase. But I think 14pts/flock is too many. Especially since you will want a beast master for another 60pts to keep the flocks from fleeing.

No need of it when you have the Yncarne+Command Points.

Fair enough. But the Yncarne has to be on the board and close to the flocks. So don't see that working too often. But yeah you can burn 2 command points if needed. Just seems a waist of command points...or does it!?!... Haha

colinsherlow wrote:

Fair enough. But the Yncarne has to be on the board and close to the flocks. So don't see that working too often. But yeah you can burn 2 command points if needed. Just seems a waist of command points...or does it!?!... Haha

Depends. I was considering to run a full unit of Flocks without him just for that. Or you know, 2 units with just 1 Beastmasters.

Don't know now how it will works. Guess you will spend it if you want theme. Or just run Khymerae as a shield meat?

Well aren't Kabalites better bubblewrap too now? And they potentially give you CPs compared to Flocks. 14 might, just might be tad too much...

14 is balls to the wall asinine. 12 would be too much. 10 was the magic number but like the VSG they nerfed it so hard they will never see the table.

TeenageAngst wrote:

14 is balls to the wall asinine. 12 would be too much. 10 was the magic number but like the VSG they nerfed it so hard they will never see the table.

Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing.

I know one should really compare one army to another. But you can get 7 brimstone horrors or almost 5 conscripts for the same points. And both those options seems quite a bit better.

I was thinking 10-11pts. Or if 12 or 14pts give the flocks a little something else

Guess I'll have to go back to plan B and just run a bunch of unpainted Ynnari Harlequins with Hemlocks like every other schmuck.

I'm not seeing the points increase. Where in the FAQ is it?

Which member of the triumvirate are you going to take to make that happen.

@jimsolo Errata for index xenos 1

Which do you think? The one I painted like a clown.

I mean we all definitely saw that one coming... I do feel bad for anyone who went all in on zombiecide crows though.  Me and my ATC team looked around at all the options and went with cheaper but uglier birds since we kinda assumed the nerf bat was incoming.

CptMetal wrote:

I think it´s great. Now if they only had nerfed Brimstone Horrors too.

Agreed.  While it was an undeniably effective army, moving that many models every turn (and often several times a turn) was truly miserable.  And while most of my ATC games were enjoyable (due to the way ATC scoring works), they weren't exactly what i'd call challenging.

I'm also curios when the brim nerf will inevitably come.  It'd be cool if they went up a bit in points and maybe if their save got worse.

This is a weird as hell business model. They are literally punishing people for buying effective models at random.

Lol I bet GW only enrfed the flocks because people were buying too many form a third party since their own were expensive. We probably could have avoided the nerf if every flock player was willing to cough up over a grand.

I'm just glad it stabbed their wallets a tiny bit.

They also nerfed the flyers, which people were buying from them.

One of the first and most important steps to having a thriving competitive community is timely FAQs, errata, and restrictions. Good on GW for taking a step in the right direction.

There was quite a while there where they abdicated the responsibility of policing their own meta entirely, which impacted their business. Taking things in the opposite direction on that front seems like a very wise business strategy, actually.

Here's the problem though. It takes time, like, serious time to get a tournament list together. If I want to play in an event I need to plan, perhaps buy, then build, and paint all the models I'm bringing. If I do this just a month out and then a few days before the event another errata is released, I'm screwed. There's a chance my list might even be invalidated due to points changes. Now I can understand buying models because they look cool, I do it all the time. But let's face it, no one is buying that 4th Eldar Start Collecting box because they just can't get enough Fire Prisms. They're buying it because they want to round out a list idea they have. People usually have an idea of something they want to run, maybe a strategy or an army theme, and then they buy models to fit that theme. But if in the middle of building that army a central unit gets tremendously nerfed, then the entire thing falls apart. No one is going to build a Saim-Hann Windrider army if Windriders suddenly double in cost. No one is going to make a Black Guardian Ulthwe army if Guardians suddenly only shoot 6". No one is going to make a Biel-Tan army if their craftworld gets--oh wait.

The point is a fast moving meta only works if the playerbase can react fast. M:TG can support this because it's basically out of control gambling habits disguised as a card game. Infinity can because $40 is usually all it takes to turn a rounded army into a tournament army. Warmachine/Hordes can because people who play that game hate themselves already. 40k meta has for 2 decades moved slower than plate tectonics. People had a chance to experiment and adjust. Now look at this mess. Genestealer point values are pinned to the freaking bitcoin for how much they go up and down. The VSG and birds are downright worthless. Ynnari are now their own entire separate superfriends club that gets more exclusive by the hour. You need a stock ticker to keep track of all the changes.

I agree with this sentiment 100%.

TeenageAngst wrote:

No one is going to build a Saim-Hann Windrider army if Windriders suddenly double in cost. No one is going to make a Black Guardian Ulthwe army if Guardians suddenly only shoot 6". No one is going to make a Biel-Tan army if their craftworld gets--oh wait.

Yeah, but Windriders and Black Guardians are standard choices for their faction specific armies. When was the last time you've heard of an army of space crows being the main force employed by the Dark Eldar? Any Kabal who tried to do so would be the laughing stock of Commorragh. Besides, and this is a big one. The codexes haven't even dropped yet.

TeenageAngst wrote:

40k meta has for 2 decades moved slower than plate tectonics. People had a chance to experiment and adjust. Now look at this mess.

Cripes mate, the meta changes every time a codex is dropped or a new rule book comes out. What do you mean the meta hasn't changed for 2 decades? I've been in the Hobby for several years and I've gone through, Grey Knights, Summon Spam, Flyers, Gun Lines, Psychic Spam, Monstrous Creature Spam, Haywire Grenades, etc etc. If you're willing to legitimately state that you've followed 2 decades of the game meta, then whats another year to wait for the codexes to drop?

TeenageAngst wrote:

Genestealer point values are pinned to the freaking bitcoin for how much they go up and down. The VSG and birds are downright worthless. Ynnari are now their own entire separate superfriends club that gets more exclusive by the hour. You need a stock ticker to keep track of all the changes.

I check in maybe once a week and I've been keeping up just fine with all the changes. Might be just me but you've got to stop treating this like its a drug mate. The pie is fresh out of the oven and you're trying to shovel it down even as the heat burns you. Let it cool on the window sill and come back after awhile.

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When was the last time you've heard of an army of space crows being the main force employed by the Dark Eldar?

It was literally the army of an Archon in the Andy Chambers trilogy.

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Cripes mate, the meta changes every time a codex is dropped or a new rule book comes out. What do you mean the meta hasn't changed for 2 decades?

I said it changed slowly for 2 decades.

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I check in maybe once a week and I've been keeping up just fine with all the changes.

I can't afford a new tournament list every week, mate.

Which Archon? Which book in the series?

Max-something the Mad. His entire tower was nothing but birds, he floated on jet boots, he sent the Haemonculus on a special mission to recover some special bird. It was all 100% beastmasters devoted to birds.