TTT DE video

amishprn86 wrote:

Wait,,, i didnt see anything about Red Grief? I missed it!

It was stated above as a general strat, from the BOLS video, I guess. Red grief is for the advance/charge obsession.

I must say I feel like we have so many more options than before. Kabal, Cult and Coven all look great.

What I find curious is:
- 2 editions ago, haemies were the cheap HQ
- in 7th, the Archon became the cheap HQ (always found that illogical)
- in 8th, the succubus now is the cheap HQ

I dont know why GW changes mind like that, but overall, aside from the lack of wings/jetbikes, our HQ looks better thant before. The Archon can now act like a assault monster.

Dizzie wrote:

to be honest i don't know how anyone would be disappointed with this army, sure we are not the fastest, but comparing to older editions is pretty fruitless

How about comparing it to the current edition?

- Space Marines have faster HQs.
- Space Wolves have faster HQs.
- Dark Angels have faster HQs.
- Blood Angels have faster HQs.
- Chaos have faster HQs.
- Chaos Daemons have faster HQs.
- Thousand Sond have faster HQs.
- Death Guard have faster HQs.
- Necrons have faster HQs.
- Tau have faster HQs.
- Orks have faster HQs.

I think the only army that has slower HQs than us is IG, though even they have one more deep-striking HQ than we do.

So if I'm not mistaken we can actually get an alright, budget Lelith in the form of a Cult of Strife Succubus

4 A base
+1 CoS
+1 Combat Drug
+3 Agonizer relic

Blood Dancer WL trait

9 attacks, 6's do 3 hits. That's not bad for a 54 point HQ.

That is because our HQ's are politicians, not condottieri. I can't see an Archon on bikez yelling "with me!"

Even the Succubus are not like that.

The Shredder wrote:

Dizzie wrote:

to be honest i don't know how anyone would be disappointed with this army, sure we are not the fastest, but comparing to older editions is pretty fruitless

How about comparing it to the current edition?

- Space Marines have faster HQs.
- Space Wolves have faster HQs.
- Dark Angels have faster HQs.
- Blood Angels have faster HQs.
- Chaos have faster HQs.
- Chaos Daemons have faster HQs.
- Thousand Sond have faster HQs.
- Death Guard have faster HQs.
- Necrons have faster HQs.
- Tau have faster HQs.
- Orks have faster HQs.

I think the only army that has slower HQs than us is IG, though even they have one more deep-striking HQ than we do.

K, thanks for repeating that.

So you are stopping DE b.c we dont have fast HQ's, when we've only have had 1 Fast HQ in the last 10yrs..... ok then.

The Shredder wrote:

I think the only army that has slower HQs than us is IG

Tank Commander is faster

Guter wrote:

The Shredder wrote:

I think the only army that has slower HQs than us is IG

Tank Commander is faster

Good point.

amishprn86 wrote:

So you are stopping DE b.c we dont have fast HQ's, when we've only have had 1 Fast HQ in the last 12yrs..... ok then.

Except that this was the codex where GW supposedly listened to their players. And they still didn't give us a single fix. Hell, they didn't even acknowledge that the problem exists.

If you want to celebrate that as a success, go nuts.

The Shredder wrote:

Guter wrote:

The Shredder wrote:

I think the only army that has slower HQs than us is IG

Tank Commander is faster

Good point.

amishprn86 wrote:

So you are stopping DE b.c we dont have fast HQ's, when we've only have had 1 Fast HQ in the last 12yrs..... ok then.

Except that this was the codex where GW supposedly listened to their players. And they still didn't give us a single fix. Hell, they didn't even acknowledge that the problem exists.

If you want to celebrate that as a success, go nuts.

Im celebrating b.c we did get a lot of stuff and most things are now playable with only a couple units being questionable.

I also wanted 6 slots or wings/bike but i'm not acting like a brat b.c i didnt get my way on 1 thing.

I am backing Shredder 100% here. This army holds no joy for me. This Codex has made me lose all interest in playing the army that they're selling.

So yeah. They have 'succeeded' in ensuring I will not be playing again.

The Shredder wrote:

Dizzie wrote:

to be honest i don't know how anyone would be disappointed with this army, sure we are not the fastest, but comparing to older editions is pretty fruitless

How about comparing it to the current edition?

I would have loved to have a skyboard or jetbike for our HQ's, i'm not happy with this either, but on foot our HQ's are faster no? AFAIK
however the comparison is hardly fair, we havn't had a jetbike HQ since way back in 3rd edition, what 20 years ago?
the point i'm making is this edition we lost a couple inches on our transports compared to eldar, sure other armies have units that can be faster than us, However no other army can do what we do, our army can move 14-24 inches with basically everything and still shoot at full strength with guys inside transports, i'd take that every time over a few inches of extra speed.

I got the main things I wanted - HQ's are actually a threat now.

Disappointed Talos are still T6. I thought for sure they'd go up to T7.

Transport capacity remaining the same is a big disappointment to be sure. My biggest gripe with this codex.

FuelDrop wrote:

I am backing Shredder 100% here. This army holds no joy for me. This Codex has made me lose all interest in playing the army that they're selling.

So yeah. They have 'succeeded' in ensuring I will not be playing again.

Ok, sure, we all know you and him are not happy, Write a really good letter to GW (make it professional) giving them reason why you are mad and no longer player, what they can do to get your business back and if you feel the need to complain, make a topic for it and let us talk about what is new and not what isnt new.

Bad-baden-baden wrote:

Disappointed Talos are still T6. I thought for sure they'd go up to T7.

They get T7 with a Haemy nearby.

Logan Frost wrote:

Bad-baden-baden wrote:

Disappointed Talos are still T6. I thought for sure they'd go up to T7.

They get T7 with a Haemy nearby.

I know. But T6 and T7 aren't much different. T8 would have given them back their coveted resilience.

The Shredder wrote:

- Space Marines have faster HQs.
- Space Wolves have faster HQs.
- Dark Angels have faster HQs.
- Blood Angels have faster HQs.
- Chaos have faster HQs.
- Chaos Daemons have faster HQs.
- Thousand Sond have faster HQs.
- Death Guard have faster HQs.
- Necrons have faster HQs.
- Tau have faster HQs.
- Orks have faster HQs.

My HQ runs it's own private Tantalus with 32" movment.
(drops mic)

amishprn86 wrote:

Rodi Sikni wrote:

FuelDrop wrote:

For those of you who are still going on about how 'awesome' the codex is...

This isn't the army I want to play.

I got into DE for an elite, fast moving army that had near-infinite tricks up there sleeves. I got into them for the cool arcane wargear. I got into them for the immense level of customisation that let them each HQ be unique and badass. I got into them because they were the fastest army in the game by many miles.

I did not get into them for cheap troops, cookie cutter HQs, and to be 'moderately fast'. I did not get into them for HQ spam.

I give not one crap if this codex is good or not, because it is not the army I bought. Enjoy your hordes, I am out.

That's not fault of GW. This is what a mayority part of the DE player was desiring.

When I registered in this forum, I was really surprise how the majority of the users just want cheap units to could use more transport, and how them complained about the expensive HQ, like if they prefer use a tax HQ of 10 points again instead a 190 points  melee HQ like the 5th edition archon.

I, like you, prefer thousand times the 5th edition codex instead this new one. Not because i think that tis ultimate codex will be a crappy codex, is just that this is no the army i wanted when a start the army.

I can understand your furstration and your desition. In 2,5 edtions we lost a huge amount of units and options and changes completly the playstyle. If i not do the same as you is because I like the backgound and the minis a lot and I have another huge space marine army that, compared with DE, is a true elite army.

I think that you are looking for will be more represented on the new harlequins codex instead the DE codex. They probably have usurpased our places in WH40k. If i could back to the past knowing the actual situacion, they sould be my choice instead of DE.

DE has always been cheap tho.... that was my point, all of 5th all the DE players i knew and mayself either had large amounts of kabals or Wyches, like 30-35 and then all Trueborn elites with lots of Reavers, Hellions, Beasts and a couple RWJF's

70+ models was normal, if we took 6 Patrols we will get about 80-90 models, thats not much more at all.

I know that, the point is that beside the cheap units you have elite units like Incubus, that could kill any unit in the game easly, a scary HQ like the archon with soultrap and huskblade, a talos that caused fear on vehicles and infantry.

But the game has change. The weapons that ignore invulnerable salvation has gone and istead that we have, if we are lucky, -2AP. Now, a Incubus squad suffer to kill a terminator squad. The archon? Now we are very happy because we can use it on a corner to buff our ravagers. Talos? -1 to hit whit a weapon worst that the dread weapon. Our elite choice are not elite anymore.

Again, don't misundersrand me. This codex can be a great codex, or even the best codex on the history of the DE army, and the most funny? Yes, it can, I hope so. But a lot of the options that made me choise this army when i start it are gone, and seems like i'm not going to see then again. And that is why i can understand his decision even if i not going to walk the same way that him.

tbh the taloi seem great now, the cronos got a really nice point drop which makes it desirable to use with taloi, combined with heamy it all looks good, few ways to regenerate wounds too.

Maybe i get what you guys are saying now.
I gave it some thought, we were glass hammer, we are now less hammer and less glass.
We have been changed into a "point and click" army, there's no high reward high risk.
Our speed was part of that glass hammer, we are no longer the finesse army that takes a good leader to play well, so yeah i can see why you are disappointed now.

Rodi Sikni wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

Rodi Sikni wrote:

FuelDrop wrote:

For those of you who are still going on about how 'awesome' the codex is...

This isn't the army I want to play.

I got into DE for an elite, fast moving army that had near-infinite tricks up there sleeves. I got into them for the cool arcane wargear. I got into them for the immense level of customisation that let them each HQ be unique and badass. I got into them because they were the fastest army in the game by many miles.

I did not get into them for cheap troops, cookie cutter HQs, and to be 'moderately fast'. I did not get into them for HQ spam.

I give not one crap if this codex is good or not, because it is not the army I bought. Enjoy your hordes, I am out.

That's not fault of GW. This is what a mayority part of the DE player was desiring.

When I registered in this forum, I was really surprise how the majority of the users just want cheap units to could use more transport, and how them complained about the expensive HQ, like if they prefer use a tax HQ of 10 points again instead a 190 points  melee HQ like the 5th edition archon.

I, like you, prefer thousand times the 5th edition codex instead this new one. Not because i think that tis ultimate codex will be a crappy codex, is just that this is no the army i wanted when a start the army.

I can understand your furstration and your desition. In 2,5 edtions we lost a huge amount of units and options and changes completly the playstyle. If i not do the same as you is because I like the backgound and the minis a lot and I have another huge space marine army that, compared with DE, is a true elite army.

I think that you are looking for will be more represented on the new harlequins codex instead the DE codex. They probably have usurpased our places in WH40k. If i could back to the past knowing the actual situacion, they sould be my choice instead of DE.

DE has always been cheap tho.... that was my point, all of 5th all the DE players i knew and mayself either had large amounts of kabals or Wyches, like 30-35 and then all Trueborn elites with lots of Reavers, Hellions, Beasts and a couple RWJF's

70+ models was normal, if we took 6 Patrols we will get about 80-90 models, thats not much more at all.

I know that, the point is that beside the cheap units you have elite units like Incubus, that could kill any unit in the game easly, a scary HQ like the archon with soultrap and huskblade, a talos that caused fear on vehicles and infantry.

But the game has change. The weapons that ignore invulnerable has gone and istead that we have, if we are lucky, -2AP. Now, a Incubus squad suffer to kill a terminator squad. The archon? Now we are very happy because we can use it on a corner to buff our ravagers. Talos? -1 to hit whit a weapon worst that the dread weapon. Our elite choice are not elite anymore.

Again, don't misundersrand me. This codex can be a great codex, or even the best codex on the history of the DE army, and the most funny? Yes, it can, I hope so. But a lot of the options that made me choise this army when i start it are gone, and seems like i'm not going to see then again. And that is why i can understand his desition even if i not going to walk the same way that him.

But i dont understand this, our HQ's never been beat sticks, we never ignore invuls, and incubi are just as good as they always been, if not better now than before (they literally havent changed in 10yrs) and they can still kill termies easily, they have a 5++ just like they did in 5th and 6th and 7th etc...

We can actually ignore Invuls more now than every before! Via MW's


I understand some of the complaints, but most of what is being said has been the army since 5th, yes we lost units more so than anyone, but we also have gotten back many of the wargear that was lost from 6-7th times.

Dont forget just b.c we didnt get the models now, doesnt mean we wont get them in the future, Admech and IK just got a new Knight for an example.


Again i understand players being mad about the Lack of HQ changes, but its a far cry to say it ruined DE play asyle when it is literally the same as it has been for 12yrs.


We liked to pretend we were this "hard to play army" but we only been like that b.c we always been worst than others, we either Won big or die hard due to Rock, Paper, scissor lists.

What was old lists like? Hmm vehicles? check, Fast units (reavers, hellions, beasts)? check, Heavy damage units? Ravagers, Flyers, Talos, check.

So what is honestly different? Other than our Speed? That we have the Best DSing stratagem in game now (1 CP unlimited amount) and WWPs, Units that can charge turn 1, and added Drugs for more movement with double drug use if want.


I get why people are mad, but i can not understand why you are so mad you are leaving the game when we have only been buffed and have the same ish play style.

I think most armies lost a lot of the fun gear they had before. But just because it's not here now right at the release it's not impossible that it will come back in future updates. GW gotta do something to sell models since this is the last edition.

Von Snabel wrote:

I think most armies lost a lot of the fun gear they had before. But just because it's not here now right at the release it's not impossible that it will come back in future updates. GW gotta do something to sell models since this is the last edition.

nah, they will do 1-2 more editions like 8th and then change it again, 2nd to 3rd wa a large change, 4th to 5th was a small change, 5th to 6 was a small change, 6-7 the same, 7 to 8th a large change, 8th to 9 will be small, then 9th to 10 will be a bit bigger like how 5th to 6th was.

I sure hope the ones moaning on here stick to their promise of "I'm out"

This new codex is good. Much better than I had hoped for. Anyone willing to buy the codex and make the time to get the right balance will be rewarded I am sure of that.

Those wishing we could go back in time and play with an old codex, sorry you feel down about this new codex...but if you don't give it a try then it is your loss.

Sorry to break up the salt, but did anyone catch changes to covens weapons?

Scissorhands/corrosive whip/Ichor injector/chain flails etc etc?

I, for one, am pleased with what I have seen in regards to the HQ damage potential. For the first time, in a long time, I think my HQ's will be feared again. This is reminding me of our original Archons. Combat Drug dispenser seems to have come back. High number of attacks. High WS. I think they will actually be something to be feared.

As to the mobility issue: It would be nice to have them on bikes, wings, boards etc, but I don't think it is necessary. I rarely find that the units I want to make it to CC can't do so by turn 2. They are not going to be slamming into the back field on their own, but that is ok. There are a lot of small details we still don't know. Can you take multiple different obsessions in another's transport? Great, 2x succubus, 2x archon, and Hamey will all jump in a raider with 5 blasterborn. DS that bad boy and cause some mayhem. Is that a competitive choice? Don't know yet.

I think part of the issue is a lot of people want fixes to problems - but overcoming those very problems is part of the fun of making an army. It's still too early to know if we have the appropriate tools to overcome what issues there are.