A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

With Tau, it's about the tactics you use.  Deploying and attracting the Deathstar into a corner is very practical.  You will lose units but it either takes the bait or kills nothing and that's not really an answer.  The unit is too expensive just to blob in the center to any great effect.

The ability to outflank, infiltrate, scout and Deep Strike are the keys to Tau victory, and yet the least often dfeatured by its Generals.  and thats fine.  But if you want to adapt to these Beaststars you need to attract them to the corners and leave them there to rot, far from anything that matters.  Focus all your fire on anything BUT the Deathstar.  let it do its thing, have its kills and generally not be important.  That is the wisest course, if you're asking my opinion.

Now this thread discusses a lot of different codexes. This is because we are likely to face them and knowing your opponent is key to victory. So now I'm dissecting Tau with help.

So Unorthodox is going to build me a list for Tau. We are going to start by testing this - J's first test list ...

Diamond Formation Tau by Unorthodoxy

option 1:  Diamond Formation on a strongside flank, with the intention of bringing the enemy across the board further and taking advantage of our pinning and range using broadsides as bait. Then outflank your kroot and hit hius lines from the backside, and DS your crisis with precision and bring in the skyray from reserve.

FW have carbines for assault 2 pinning. They also have EMP. These guys are your grenediers. They can shoot and assault a vehicle or walker (IKs too) and take 'em down. Your pathfinders are more commandos - also with EMP. Now Aun'Va might not be within 12" turn one but you want to get him there quickly but also safely.

Aun'VA buffs the whole army. They get reroll all saves, morale, pinning and regroup tests. As well he can cast two signature systems a turn. He also gets to choose two of these -   Stubborn;  +1 shot on Pulse Weapons;  6+ FnP;  and models that run can fire snap shots. He also provides a 12" LD bubble.

Your problem with the list is not armor  - your problem is assault deathstars and centstars gating around the table. Especially invisible deathstars. All you can do is try and bait them to a position where most of your army can ignore them. With centstars this is very hard to do as they just gate back into position. Now beaststars and screamerstars with invisibility - The normal beast star, with just Kyms alone and not considering the Baron and get stealth and with a tank fearless jetseer is basically 75 wounds to kill. Thay is a lot of shots, lol. If invisibility is up Tau have issues, lol. Now those GK players can be hosed by Tau but as soon as you add a centstar ally they will crack all your armor fast. And if you add drop pods they will be nasty. So you would have to null deploy and then respond. This list lets you do that well. Crisis hurts centstar, rail rifles and kroot guns can get to them. It is tricky but doable.

Unorthodoxy summed up the philosophy of this list brilliantly - every unit is expendable. You will not lose the game by losing a 'key' unit because the whole list supports each other unit still on the table and each unit can bring the pain. Aun'Va is likely your most valuable asset (you can GtG and get up which saves your butt) however, even Aun'Va is expendable. And he is cheap.

So how it plays:

option 1:  As discussed above and our first choice.

option 2:  Null deployment with broadsides in each corner and maybe Aun'Va on the table.

option 3:  Full court press with scout, infiltrate and DS

option four:  Gunline because we can but really will not be used.

Finally the list:

Diamond Formation Tau  by Unorthodoxy

Aun,Va  

3 Crisis Shas'ui  (Flamer + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster)

2x 6 Fire Warriors, (Carbines + EMP Grenade)
Devilfish

2x 10 Kroot 1 Kroot Hounds 3 Krootox Rider

2x  6 Pathfinders (EMP Grenade + Rail Rifle)
Shasui (+ 2 shield + 1 Pulse Accelerator + 1 Recon Drone)
Devilfish (Flechette Discharger + Disruption Pod)

1 Sky Ray Missile Defence Gunship (TL Smart Missile System)

2x XV88 Broadside Battlesuit (Shield Drone, Seeker Missile, TL Plasma, Early Warning Override)

Some final thoughts

Tau has dropped to the bottom of the top tier lists in 7ed. Some players have been experimenting to try and get a list that can handle invisible deathstars, centstars, knights, FMCs. There was a list at nove that used 80 kroot and an allied centstar. And farsight bomb still has a bit of punch. I'll let Unorthodoxy break down Tau match ups more as he is the Tau guru but this is a taste of what Tau has to beat in 7ed and some of tools they have to hurt you in return.

I will if anyone is interested. hehehehe.

To get some perspective - at Nova this was the only successful Tau list:

Farsight Enclave

Commander  2x Missile pod, Target lock, Velocity tracker 2x Marker Drone

Riptide Earth Caste Pilot Array,  Heavy burst cannon, Stimulant injector, Twin-linked fusion blaster, Velocity tracker

Riptide Early warning override, Ion accelerator, Twin-linked fusion blaster

Riptide Heavy burst cannon,  Stimulant injector, Twin-linked fusion blaster, Velocity tracker

3 Crisis Team  2x Burst cannon each, 4x Gun Drone

2x 2 Crisis Team  2x Fusion blaster each

1 Crisis Team Twin-linked missile pod

1 Crisis Team Twin-linked missile pod

Crisis Team (compulsory)
3 Crisis suits 2x Missile pod, Target lock 6x Marker Drone

Tau Empire: Codex Allies

Commander
Command and Control Node, Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, Neuroweb System Jammer, Onager Gauntlet, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Shield generator, Stimulant injector, Vectored retro-thrusters, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit

6x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle, Photon grenades

So it does look like only a bomb list handled the tougher units. Of course we do not know what other Tau guys played other than the 80 kroot list with centstar - which was the second best list.

Of note his two loses were to Chaos Daemons - he beat Eldar, Nids and Space Marines. So even with Riptide AA he struggled against FMCs.

This really illustrates the dichotomy of Tau lists - you have to think what can be fielded and what will actually win a tournament. Tau has to rethink its reliance on crisis suits and riotides as that clearly was not the path to victory.

This said ... the top list was Wave Serpent spam that only took a single Wraithknight and took 2 night spinners. The second list was a totally different take on Eldar with a beastpack deathstar as allies. The third list was Chaos with Imperial Knights! The rest included riptide spam, wave serpent spam, Wraithknight/jetseer, all jetbikes (no Wraithknights), a crazy weird CSM list with Typhus and Kharn, a Nurgle flying circus, a drop pod SW list, a Chaos list with Seekers and Flesh hounds, and a GK list that appeared to be playing with the old codex because it was Coteaz henchman spam with 2 squads of purifiers, 3 sky buses, and Ultramarine allies.

So there is definitely room for some diverse lists that can surprise the meta. There were an awful lot of top players at Nova and Eldar was the most popular army being played. It does seem though that is room for innovation still so maybe there are gems still hidden in the Tau codex.

And finally something to think about. The rules and interactions in the game of 40k are complex. Tactically 40k is still shallow. There is just so much flexibility built into the game which is why Eldar/Necrons do so well with just long range shooting. Read battle reports. On the odd occasion you might find a trick or two. However, it is more likely you will spot a play error or two because the complexity sometimes makes us forget a particular rule the would help in a given situation. That does mean the tactics are deep though. They simply are not.

There was a time we could consolidate into different assaults, we could assault out of transports if they did not move. We could use some tactics to enhance the game play. We cannot even assault from reserves now. So shooting does tend to dominate the upper echelon lists. No heavy tactics there. Shooting and assault are now much more straight forward ... a lot of the old tricks were taken away.

Agree or disagree?

well I think that the depth of the game PLAY is hampered only somewhat.  Games are by their nature, limited to what dice and movement allow us.  there is only so many variables you can consider.  It is sometimes UNFAIR to judge games, especially when a well travelled player like myself can tell you that of all the games I play, I find only marginal differences in the "depth" game to game.  

I think people are expecting a LOT more than they should from gaming in general.  Shgort of a SIMULATON, we must kind of let every games quirks express themselves or we'd always be playing the same game..  

Warhammer 40K is very rich in its ability to allow for COMPLETELY and I mean COMPLETELY different matchups.  No game that I know if gives you the variety of opponents and army focuses.  So in that respect, there is a massive interest difference it creates over other games.

We can all go back and forth about the Depth issue, but I find that there are a LOT of Warhammer 40K players who dont even play a lot of the othe games, certainly not enough to really gauge the RELATIVe differences.

Flames of War comes to min.d EXCELLENT tournament game.  Scoring system is great, and everything in the game functions exactly like its foreign counterparts version essentially.  Upside:  continuity.  Downside: sameness.  

So if you're in it for a more INTERESTING game then Warhammer has almost everyone of itsd ocmpetitors beat.  I think you gotta define what you want from games and why...  Then ask yourself whether those expectations are even realistic...  Readjust...and then ask the questions again.

I probably expressed my thought poorly. Let me give this another try.

Tactics are tough to discuss, because they are situational by their definition. I often discuss strategies with you J. Problem with tactics is we ask the question …

"What should I do in this specific set of circumstances?"

And you are correct. Thee is a lot of game diversity in 40k as every match up differs. Unfortunately on a thread discussing tactics, the value of discussion degrades the further you get from those specific circumstances.

So it is is much easier to talk about strategy, which has wider scope, and can be applied over a wider range of situations. 40k has tactics but it requires the player to explore strategies outside of kill them faster than they can kill me.

You can look back over the discussion on assault to see what I mean. Assault may not make their points back, they may not score an objective, and they may not contribute directly to my winning the game. But I can prevent those 400 points of opposing resources from destroying double their value of my resources, I have a viable strategy - not a tactic.

When I plan to use a unit in certain and the list I'm facing has none of the usual targets for my unit, that's where tactics come in. Maybe I will use the unit to hold an objective? Maybe their guns can whittle away the last couple of Marines that are holding an objective. Maybe I throw them forward, hoping to draw fire from something else? Unfortunately their tactical uses are difficult to discuss without context, though. So we theorize 'on uses.

In athread discussing tactics I'm always at a disadvantage in 40k. There is just so many tactics we can use when speaking in a vacuum. Which is why I like a battle report even if it is not detailed. At least in a battle report I actually get to see the result of choosing one option over another.

So we confuse strategy with tactics often = here we often discuss the value of outflanking, or deep strike, or what-have-you that increases the value of a unit beyond what it can kill or survive. This is not tactics but strategy. I think there are a lot of complex enough strategies in 40k because of the diverse ways to deploy, move and interact with all the different variations in lists. But tactics - not so many in a given situation.

egorey wrote:

Tactics are tough to discuss, because they are situational by their definition. I often discuss strategies with you J. Problem with tactics is we ask the question …

Remember the saying: It's strategy, when you hear about shots. It's tactic,
when you hear the shots. And it's operation, when you are shot...

Quick note on the new GK codex ...

Cleansing Flame
2D6 St 5 Ap4 with a 9 inch range ignoring cover - a nova witchfire ( effects ALL units within range including flyers).
Delivery
Rhino - Razorback - SW drop pod (allies)

You can combat squad and put all ten purifiers in a rhino as two seperate squads and let loose 4D6 shots ( rhinos have two firepoints and withfire can use them). Rush three rhinos and you have extended your range and can get 16D6 shots off turn one. That will decimate some lists.

In a razor you are limited to moving up and then disembarking your smaller unit.

Drop pods can do the same as rhinos and you plop right in the middle of your opponent - again this can be devastating.

I'm hoping that Unorthodoxy - who plays this list will further ewxpand on it. The new GK - they have weapons - -

So I'm getting super pumped for the new Dark Eldar codex. Lots of people are complaining but based on the rumors I'm seeing some huge possibilities. Doors are open that were once closed or only barely ajar. I'm extremely excited at the prospect of Talos/Cronos in squads (hopefully mixed!). This completely changes our heavy support slot and I believe for the better. Supposedly, the court is much less restrictive so that opens up a true area of expansion for our HQs which also sound like there will be more interesting due to artifacts and such. As long as I'm not busy I will give my initial impressions friday/saturday! I'm super excited!

I'm lookin forward to the thoughts Ligolski.

DuckofDeath/Egorey: I have been pondering this myself, since my own force uses essentially this exact config and it did before they actually changed to the new codex. So this really gives me that many more fun shenanigans.

Here is my thought, Duck. You put the Culexis in a Fast Attack Rhino, put the three Purifier Squads all in Rhinos. 12D6 Cleansing flame from within. Crowe goes in another. 14D6. Librarian goes in another. 16D6, not just to *A* unit but to ALL units within range. PLUS, when they all get out or get blown out (usually none the worse for wear) your Culexus is going to fire off HOW MANY shots? Talk about a finisher. Forget his Psychic blotting ability. THINK about his shooting! Zoiks yo.

I mentioned this earlier - 40k is not that complicated tactically but it is complex - you need to know the rules. So now you can combat squad and put both the units in the same rhino. This doubles your shot output. It is these types of rules that you need to know. You want more shots - you can only fire one shot per unit - so Libby and Crowe cannot be attached to a unit to get the extra cleansing flame. This does mean more rhinos of course - you spend a 35 point tax to get more shots. The upside is you now have blockers and a lot of targets and a lot of scoring.

I was playing my first game with Tau the other night. I realized that when I hit a DP (with a black mace no less) with a marker light he had to take a grounding test - it is a hit! My opponent - and old time Tau player had never done this - he just never put it together. So his DP which failed the test was mine to obliterate. It changed the whole dynamic of the game.

So knowing what is possible within the rules is huge in 40k. It determines how you deploy, how you advance and ultimately whether or not you win. When rolling to see who goes first you can use null deployment to your advantage ... you deploy and then you choose to have your opponent go first instead. You understand - this happens AFTER deployment. Sweet. And I do not need all those models on the table now either. So understanding the rules helps enormously.

Good players are players who use all the rules to their advantage. They now how to position, when and how to GtG and regroup from a GtG - they have the pieces in place to ensure this. They pre-plan for it. This is not tactics but rather knowledge and strategies. So the Culexus  - if you know the rules - goes in a FA rhino and suddenly you have a major threat in your opponents grill. His rhino can be covered too. Nice and nasty and near impossible to defend against.

The new DE codex is going to open up null deployment options like mad for us. Learn all the rules. Develop a suitable strategy - you need to hard units in the corners of your deployment zone to pull off a decent null deployment. This is going to be a major tool for DE with the new codex. Learn to use it.

Thesaltedwound: roll an extra D6 when generating rumours and discard the lowest number of rumours

Rumors. It's whats for dinnah!

So lets take another look at Imperial Knights. Third at Nova was an dual IK list with chaos spawning daemons. Cerrtainly seems viable. So what about we work with the idea for Eldar/IK alliance. They are allies of convenience. I'm not using Adamantium Lance formation becuase I do want to be trapped into keeping all the IKs together for the bonuses. Instead all use this route:

Imperial Knight Detachment: 1125
Cerastus Knight Castigator: 380
Knight Paladin: 375
Knight Errant: 370

Eldar Detachment: 717
2x Farseer, Jetbikes, 1 Runes of Witnessing 240
2x Warlocks, Jetbikes 100
2x Windrider Jetbikes 102
Crimson Hunter 160
Nightspinner 115

Now this list would be allowed at almost any tournaments it is dual CAD and no extra formations or allies. So what is happening here. The warlocks add WC and conceal to the two small jetbike squads - everything hugs cover and jinks like mad. The Eldar flyers are for just that - AA.

While the IKs advance you cover them with spawned horrors and daemonettes (up to two squads a turn) - o that they only get assaulted or assault when you want them to.

I would love to use the new DE codex for a list but I need to absorb a bit more first. This is a list that I understand as I've played against three IK armies and Eldar summoning armies. Combining the two is very nasty indeed.

So go ahead - point out the flaws.

actually, this list looks like it kicks a lot of Arse. the idea is sound and the counter to it is not EASY to do (though it looks very possible to beat it given the right tools, but that assumption carries with it a lot of weight).

There will be armies that simply are overwhelmed before they can do much about it. Killing the two Biker Squads seems really kety and not so easy to do, but possible. An opponent would need plenty of Obsec tocounter this as well, which is less common in these new 'everything scores" days.

Good looking force.

What I should really say is that a lot of the lists posted are vto provoke thought. What would you do if you faced them 'sort of thing'. Any fool can see that there is an imbalance in the game currently. It does not mean that we cannot overcome these if we know how to design and play a solid list with or without allies, with no LoWs or super heavies. with no broken psychic powers (read invisibility). I do present some pretty nasty templates on the blog but I'm not condoning playing these types of lists. I'm just showing what can be fielded and what some people will field. If you read my batreps I generally avoid these lists unless it is a preset game hwere we both try out the most broken stuff we can muster for lols. I prefer a good competitive game with lists more like diamond formation Tau.

And any list posted is a template that you should alter anyway. For example this is a standard IK list seen often everywhere but with different additions and substractions to taste:

WHITE KNIGHTS TOURNAMENT LIST

White Scars Detachment - 1111
Chapter Master; Bike; The Shield Eternal; Artificer Armour; Thunder Hammer 250
2x 4x Bikers; 2 Grav-guns; Sergeant, Comi-Grav; Attack Bike; Multi-melta 358
2x 4x Bikers; 2 Plasma Guns; Sergeant, Plasma Pistol; Attack Bike; Multi-melta 368
Stormtalon Gunship; Skyhammer Missiles 125

Imperial Knight Allies 745
Knight Errant 370
Knight Paladin 375

I have played against a similar list a few times and really you should expect a list like this at any tournament as it will generally be allowed without issue. It is only a single allied detachment list. So how do you defend against this? Trust me when I say the point of the list is to hit one unit at a time with speed and fury. You cannot divide your army against it. That would be a mistake. It will also be in your grill turn two as it is white scars after all and they scout. So ... ?

This is a template list example - among the many I post to get you thinking. I do not mean to spoon feed a list to play but rather get you thinking about how to defend.

So as CountdeMoney said in chat we are not cherry picking but rasberry picking the new codex. We are going to have to look at the best units and decide how we will use them. These are units I am looking at ...

Grots are so much better they do not even need an IC  - flesh guantlets standard - liquifiers for all - tasty.

Court of the archon with sssylth and medusae to bodyguard an archon is coming your way.

Both reavers and scourges will be used for AT - pick your poison

Here comes the crucible of malediction bomb your way. Expect dat!

Mandrakes are quite the distraction unit now that they come with baleblat. Use them and love them.

The tantalus can pack 16 models, has 5 hp, 12/12/10, flicker field and two plus disintegrators. These bad boys are S5 AP2 Heavy 6 so you have 12 shots. Also, it has deep strike aerial assault.. It's a heavy support choice or a dedicated transport for a court of the archon. Oh, and it's got scythe vanes, which are cool, but only just. You have to move flat out and if you pass over an enemy unit it takes D6 S7 AP2 hits, or a single S7 AP2 hit against vehicles. Also, if you ram, you roll an extra D6 for armor penetration.

Okay - the kicker is you take it as a dedicated transport for your court of the archon so - an archon and ssylth and maybe a few medusa fit very nicely into the boat. Take a second as a heavy slot and fill it with haemie/crucible and grots and you have a very effective dual hammer list. You could even take three tantalus in your list and not completely break the point ceiling. Fill the third with scoring warriors. This is looking like it might be one of the better DE lists now.

We fill our FA now with reavers and scourges - both are darned good and both are fast enough to keep up with the boats so either will work. Mandrakes also can hit the flank you will likely target. Just fill the rest of your list with troops in boats to take objectives.

We also have the option for 6 FA slots so three units of AT scourges at 360 points will eave room for a few Razorwings if you want some extra AA.

So this would be my first test list if playing pure DE - enjoy.

Grotesques in particular lost STR but gained killing power. I used them as anti-tank so that was a bummer for me, personally, but on the other hand, they got ruthless. so a change in focus then!

FOC slots are going to be really tight in this codex. some REALLY good options occupy the same space in the codex so this is yet more pushes by GW to make multiple Detachments the way to do things and further reinforces the wave of change that is like the Genesis Device in Star Trek, Wrath of Khan.

Mandrakes are great now and they force the debate but I am seeing here again that the FOC is squeezed. It's going to be pretty interesting to see how many people favor uncubi who have an out of this world model and Wracks. I mean that really does inform your choices in a lot of other areas of the list unfortunately, and it may actually leave Mandrakes looking from the outside in. Bummer! I'm still going to try them (of course).

Scourges are now awesome. Really good and I am happy to see they will be getting more use. My question is, are they DESIGNED to be primarily AT or do their other weapon options now make them a worthwhile weapons caddy in other regards? Its not getting much attention from posters

I think scourges are a utility dakka hammer. They can carry a vast assortment of guns, from haywire to heatlances to even splinter cannons and dark lances. The question is what do you need in your list. They surely have a way to fit in anywhere! I'm thinking I will need some extra firepower for vehicles and may go either haywire blasters or heat lances depending on things (read points and conversion work). I think the coven supplement will be a nice addition with several good options from either a full out coven army (you could do an army of grots...) to taking the detachments.

Here are the "rumored" detachments (read I have a really good source with book):

Quote :

1 - urien or haemy plus 2 units of grots - d6 roll at start of game for grots - +1S, +1T, fleet, shred, rage, 4+ FNP

2 - 1 haemy, 1 chronos, 2 units of wracks - all wracks gain precision strike, wracks treat turn 1 higher for pfp. if haemy is the warlord he gets trait 4 automatically

3 - 2 units of wracks in 2 venoms - if a unit in this formation scores first blood, gain D3 vp rather than 1. Wracks must start embarked an in reserve. Deployed turn 1 via deep strike

4 - unit of 5 Talos - gain scout. Score an extra vp for any non vehicle unit killed in combat

5 - 1 haemy, 1 Chronos, 1 Talos - form a single unit. Characters may not join it outside of this formation. Talos and chronos gain +1ws and init. If haemy is warlord, gain trait 1 automatically

6 - 1 haemy, 3 units of wracks with raiders. Master of pain from haemy confers to all units in this formation within 12". Warlord trait 5 if haemy is warlord

7 - all 6 formations as above in 1 formation - called the carnival of pain. Urien form formation 1 has his master of pain rule confer to whole formation. All non vehicles reroll 1's to wound in combat

I'm super pumped for formation 5...why? Because I can give that hamie a WWP...boom! That is a nasty squad with FNP 4+ with rerolls of 1 for FNP if that haemie is your warlord. Heck I'd even think about taking two of these formations even without the rerolls! Support this with other deepstriking elements and/or other units on the field you have yourself a party people.

As the Duck said the book will be about picking the right units for your army. Lots of options as far as I can see. Even without coven I see the potential for something akin to what Eldar use in their fast attack slots and troops. Just good all around units that do something in particular well. Not nearly as good as Eldar do it, but certainly better than before with points reductions on most our fast attack units and raiders. The key will be deciding your army's method of dustruction and how you balance that considering what is out there.

Unfortunately, my codex order has been delayed to my FLGS but I will hopefully starting doing write ups on each unit and my initial thoughts starting early next week.

Cheers!

That unit of 5 Talos looks beefy.

Looking through the formations the two with talos are standouts. They can be used with or without Eldar backup too. So yes, Ligs, there is blood to be had.

So ...
1) Chronos, Talos, Haemie w/crucible and helm and wwp, Fuegan for split fire shenanigans (dual CAD)
Now add Farseer w/ shard and hopefully invisibility to a squad of 6 Reavers.
Now add a second bomb - Archon/ wwp, TANTALUS, Kabalite troops
Add some infiltrating Mandrakes
Well this is a pickle as a start - all you need is a bastion w/comms - put a few units in there - maybe even reapers so you get a solid null deployment and extra AA/AT
I do not like the idea of Eldar allies as a rule but ...

2) FIVE yes five Taloi outflanking
Mandrakes again
A grot bomb with haemie and crucible (maybe a few template weapoons as well)
An archon bomb as above w/court
Scourges up the yahoo - DSing
Bastion w/ comms relay - put some squads in it to survive round one.

Now either of these lists can take the Cpourt bomb instead of the Tantalus bomb - these are choices you make. So I am not writing off DE yet - we will be there and compete - I expect some unusual builds to do quite well.

I am excited guys.  I sadly fell asleep because my week has been...rough...  and I didnt get to read as much as I wanted to.  I need to go to sleep at normal times!  Anyways, there is truth to the pairing down disappointment but overall so far I see serious possibilities.

The split fire thing is a REALLY cool idea.

For big squads of psyckers i think it is just one model from the unit from how the crucible is worded?

So even for squads of shadow seers its just one hit but still useful.

For brotherhood of psykers it is one model. For shadow or seer council it is all models.

Let's talk seriously … people need to look closer at the new DE before just harping on what is NOT there. Lets stop the doom and gloom nonsense.

Scourges: - 6 pts cheaper and a squad of five can take 4 heavy weapons
Reavers - 6 pts cheaper, Can now leave combat, recharge and improved HoW.
Kabalites: - 1 pt cheaper
Mandrakes: - 3 pts cheaper, have stealth and shrouded and start with ballast
Talos are now squads of three
Love the new formations, You can taking 4 Venoms with nothing inside and you have up to 4 FA slots.
Shadowfield lasts until end of turn. So rolling that first one doesn't auto screw you.
Web way portals are pure win with pin point deep strike.
Crucible bomb will be potent
Heavy Flyer lists are possible and might actually work

In all fairness when discussing taking Eldar allies we cannot overlook 12 reavers w/ a farseer (going for invisibility) or even two farseers, one with shard - the number of HoW rending hits is fantastic on the charge and you get H+R and a jinking or invisible squad capable of both AT/AI. Forget about the beastpack ... we will not miss it much. For the same points I can get an average of 4D6 S6 rending attacks on the charge (HoW) and 8 S4 Rending with the new bladevane/caltrops rules, the squad is fearless, the squad is potentially invisible and the squad and it still has hit and run without the Baron. All this is around 500 points of course.  This is a more than reasonable replacement for the khym pack. And for HQs add BOTH bike autarch and bike farseer - get mask and shard and even extra damage

No nonsense about the doom and gloom; many armies have been ruined by a book that took and gave when it needed to just give and give. Let's not claim brass is gold.

HOWEVER

If you want to create an effective army you don't need all the codex to be effective.

I don't see the value in Fast Attack venoms fielded empty. I mean, sure, it's ok, but the game's about resilience now and venoms don't offer that. Better off with War Walkers that can maybe get back out of line of sight.

Creating a mini deathstar out of Reavers looks possibly useful. I want to see someone try massed Taloi.

Surprised you didn't mention the Grotesques, thought they'd improved. No, wait, scratch that, they're HUGE. Think about what people love now. Nurgle spawn. TWC. Flesh Hounds. Monstrous Creatures. An entire unit with Instant death is, imo, big. Particularly when they've got the resilience to go toe to toe.

I'll throw this out now. Power From Pain could be a trap. If you're dilly-dallying around trying to start the game in turns 3-4 when the bonuses start getting good against the current generation of rush armies you're asking for trouble. I don't see most generals being able to pull it off against someone of equal skill.

I think, in balance, Dark Eldar will be at their best as a mix of the big tough units barrelling in to mix it up while using things like Scourges and Trueborn as surgical strike units to remove things you really don't like. Taloi units look fun and I want to see them tried but tbh I think they'll be too slow.

But in a game about speed and resilience, Invisible Reavers and DS/Raider borne Grotesques probably have currency. What do Clawed Fiends look like again? I forget now.

I own a bunch of Clawed Fiends. =) I use them all the time! Will likely use at least one more of them now.

I use Grotesques and wow. Gona' KEEP doing THAT.

The big question for me is Urien now. He was so incredible in the old codex. "It will not die" and a 4+ invul isnt nearly as good as the clone Field plus regeneration was before. So he could actually be a casualty in my list unless I cant figure a compelling way to respend those points. I'm giving it thought still. He's not terribad and I'm not suggesting that. Question is do I even NEED him now? hmm... Still debating?

I have ten scourges awaiting paint. With my current projects, I am despairing of getting to them. But they suuuuuure look good now...

I think I AM going to do the Taloi thing. I own a bunch through happenstance of trades and hey...why not try all the new things?