New Dex in the late fall

aurynn wrote:

I hear some ppl saying "but marine is just 2 pts more expensive, has 3+, grenades, etc...". Yea but their CC is crap

10 Tac Marines (140) vs 14 Wyches (no HWG): Wyches do 0.39 wounds on Overwatch. 20 attacks on the charge, hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+, 4++ save = 3.33 dead Wyches
Wyches hit back: 21.33 attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 5+, 3+ save = 1.19 dead Marines (plus 0.39 on Overwatch = 1.58 dead marines)

Reversing that for Wyches getting the charge:

Marines do 2.22 wounds on Overwatch, leaving 11.78 Wyches, 35.33 attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 5+, 3+ save = 1.96 dead marines
Marines hit back - 8 attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+, 4++ save = 1.33 dead plus 2.22 on Overwatch = 3.55 dead Wyches

So equal points of Tac Marines beat Wyches in both offence and defence nearly 2 to 1.

Quote :

I always felt that HWG are stuff for soldiers (kabalites) not wyches.

That is something I can agree with.

Why are the tacs killing wyches before the wyches attack? Should be more dead marines if 14 wyches fighting!

EDIT: In the first scenario, that is


EDIT EDIT: Checking mathhammer, should be closer to 2 dead marines even when the wyches get charged, with 28 attacks.

We should also not forget combat drugs as well as a possible pain token, the other one with 2/3rd of a chance of having some degree of more dead marines (not going to go through all of them individually), one of them adding durability with feel no pain, and any extra pain tokens possibly meaning more kills on the charge.

Mngwa wrote:

Why are the tacs killing wyches before the wyches attack? Should be more dead marines if 14 wyches fighting!

Oops, my bad. Yes, you're right. Still doesn't alter the fact that Marines outfight Wyches but struggle to take out a Rhino whereas Wyches can't beat Marines but can blow up a Land Raider, which I think is wrong. I want Wyches to be deadly in assault and the AT role to go somewhere else in the army.

In Faeit 212, they are saying that we arent getting a voidraven in our codex. It's like our best flyer in the codex, i hope they configure the void lances to the razorwing man. I really hate to see that go. check it out right now if you want. what do you think will happen to our razorwing?


looking forward to replies man. i spent so much time converting a voidraven only to see it go because GW is lazy to make a descent model out of this awesome flyer. -_-

I've merged this post with the other ongoing thread on the (rumoured) new codex - Count Adhemar

Count Adhemar wrote:

Mngwa wrote:

Why are the tacs killing wyches before the wyches attack? Should be more dead marines if 14 wyches fighting!

Oops, my bad. Yes, you're right. Still doesn't alter the fact that Marines outfight Wyches but struggle to take out a Rhino whereas Wyches can't beat Marines but can blow up a Land Raider, which I think is wrong. I want Wyches to be deadly in assault and the AT role to go somewhere else in the army.

True but we have alot of AT man Reavers, Ravagers,Scourges, Taloi, Razorwings. id say Wyches should at least have a dodge 6++ save though. Cause bolters just oneshotting my wyches is not cool! >:O altough HWG should stay with wyches, if not Kabalite Warriors will be played more often than laughable wyches without HWG. i never take wyches without HWG it's just mandatory.

Dat_Other_Guy wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

Mngwa wrote:

Why are the tacs killing wyches before the wyches attack? Should be more dead marines if 14 wyches fighting!

Oops, my bad. Yes, you're right. Still doesn't alter the fact that Marines outfight Wyches but struggle to take out a Rhino whereas Wyches can't beat Marines but can blow up a Land Raider, which I think is wrong. I want Wyches to be deadly in assault and the AT role to go somewhere else in the army.

True but we have alot of AT man Reavers, Ravagers,Scourges, Taloi, Razorwings. id say Wyches should at least have a dodge 6++ save though. Cause bolters just oneshotting my wyches is not cool! >:O altough HWG should stay with wyches, if not Kabalite Warriors will be played more often than laughable wyches without HWG. i never take wyches without HWG it's just mandatory.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to describe Reavers or Razorwings as AT, Taloi have to get into combat without any means of doing so, Ravagers suffer from low rate of fire and fragility and Scourges need to be specifically equipped for AT and then waste the rest of the unit's firepower (shardcarbines) on a target they cannot damage.

Heh. But I never said that Wyches CC isnt crap! :-D Thats my problem with them. The only thing they are good at is killing 5 termies. Which is a really niche use in my book. I say boost their offence and make them assault monsters, keep their defence. Or boost their defence and make them a tarpit. Thats all. We need both.

Change the wording on the wyches dodge rule to "wyches gain a 4++ save in the assault phase." Instead of "wyches have a 4++ save in close combat."
Gives wyches a saves against overwatch and keeps it simple.

It also states in fluff that wyches knives are sharpened to a "monomolecular edge" sound like shiriken weapons to anyone else? A semirending ability like bladestorm would make sense and be fluffy.
Also make lielith's rule the penetrating blade rend on a 4+ and bam! She is amazing while not adding anymore rules.

And a recent rumor says there is a voidraven bomber:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/dark-eldar-voidraven-bomber-price-found.html

Quote :

I have seen the Voidraven bomber in the list of products on a GW Store computer. Its 81 bucks, I make a bet on it.

lelith wrote:

And a recent rumor says there is a voidraven bomber:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/dark-eldar-voidraven-bomber-price-found.html

Quote :

I have seen the Voidraven bomber in the list of products on a GW Store computer. Its 81 bucks, I make a bet on it.

I saw it

How accurate is the source?

well the price has been rumoured before... it will have to be pretty awesome model for that price

That's FW level of price.

Hijallo wrote:

That's FW level of price.

Or double box power!!

That would be kind of sweet to build two different bombers of of it. Maybe a big anti air thingy, and am anti ground.
I'm so excited about the rumours as they change nearly twice a day XD

That'll require adding another codex entry, a third flyer. Doubt GW will make it, they haven't heard about the difference between interceptors and strike fighters.

Lord_Alino wrote:

I dislike the idea that wyches should get poison. That doesnt seem very.... wych like.

WHAT! Wyches SHOULD DEFINITELY get poison on their CCW's, either 4+ like the rest of the splinter weapons OR their CCW get poison 2+ if they could/ would add a lhamaean to a unit as an option...... opponents still get their save but you are making them roll a bunch.. they would be a tarpit for a while but also may be able to get into and chew through units.... sure hell of a lot better than the last 3 games where my wyches died from shooting,overwatch AND then in CCW because they need a frikkin 5+! TO WOUND a marine, not to mention needing 6's on anything else and then getting their pretty little asses handed to them quick style.. wyches are supposed to be the Krazy kill psycho unit just like the Dark Elf witch elves.......

I have not played that many games but I am getting tired of having my wyches kiled off... oh forgot to say before anyone chimes in My Wych units are all females, I think it fits the fluff better

LOL... and how much would you want to pay for a 2+ poison CC unit with WS4 I6 and 4++, I wonder?

I was just over at the Black Library and saw a new Planet Strike book is avaible for preorder, its being released this month.  My bet is that the "Alien Invasion" WD cover leak is exactly this.

Warhammer 40,000: Planetstrike provides players with a host of new rules for bringing the chaos and carnage of planetary invasions to the "Warhammer 40,000 tabletop"
.http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/warhammer-40000-planetstrike.html

Yeah, thats surely Alien Invasion, not us.

aurynn wrote:

LOL... and how much would you want to pay for a 2+ poison CC unit with WS4 I6 and 4++, I wonder?

---What would YOU pay? Do not think i saw any of your suggestions as to how to improve their performance and survivability....



Depends,
-make a Lhamaean an added character upgrade for ..25 points? (that is 2.5x more than she costs as part of the court). Maybe make it a '1 per army'' style upgrade for a unit, narrow it down further to Wych or Blood Brides only...

-or make it a wargear for the Succubus or Hekatrix and have it cost 25-30 points....

-or don't do anything else to the wyches except make the CCW's 'poisoned 4+' JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER WEAPON that is NOT a power weapon or a Darklight,HW,etc. They will still die horribly while running on foot ,die from over watch,etc.

---bottom line, I just try to suggest some changes which are actually true to the fluff and background of the army.

I think Hydra Gauntlets could have added rule of Poison (+3), and 2 extra attacks instead of D6.

I would pay the current price for it. If it gets more expensive, maybe even then.

Folks, this it not wishlist thread. We would all love to see Wyches tweaked, but so far there were no rumors regarding anything related to them changing. Best bet would be price tweaks.

Poisoned CCW is Wracks' feature.

Hijallo wrote:

Folks, this it not wishlist thread. We would all love to see Wyches tweaked, but so far there were no rumors regarding anything related to them changing. Best bet would be price tweaks.

Poisoned CCW is Wracks' feature.

Totaly agreed

Poisoned CCW isn't a Wych thing. I think I stated this but I'm not sure.

Anyways, if you want good wyches use them for what they seem to be intended to be used for. Hunt down them vehicles!

I have to agree with hijallo. I'm not trying to backseat mod here but this is kind of off topic (and on topic in the wishlist thread). Kinda kills me every time I see there's a new post here only to see it has nothing to do with the actual new dex in the late fall.

There isn't anything new to talk about on the new dex.

Maybe this thread should then be limited to only new links on rumours of new kits/prices etc. as they come along?
Not complaining, just suggesting