Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***

I got a chance to flip through the book for about half an hour last saturday.  Dun ask me how my friend got his hands on it but he did.

I played a bit of beastpack and that's was the first thing I checked.  Beastpack is max 12 model in the unit chosen from any mix of Beastmaster, Khymera, Flock or Fiend.  I was mostly focused on Khymeras.  It got Daemon and Fleet(?) instead of invul 4+ save.  Its also T4 and 10 pts.  Overall I think beastpack deathstar is dead although the unit 'could' still be good as MSU.

On initial read, my impression was WTF!!!

On second read, there were some potential upsides - some of which were pointed out earlier.  I will list the ones that jumped out at me and correct some of the rumors that did not seem right.

The PfP is pretty much what the rumors says.  Turn 1 - nothing.  Turn 2 - FnP 6+.  Turn 3 - FnP 5+.  Turn 4 - FNP (5+) and furious charge.  Turn 5 - FNP,Furious Charge and fearless.  Turn 6 - all of the prev plus rage.

Archon can take Arcane Gear.  In the Arcane Gear section, it listed stuff like bikes, hellion skyboard, beastmaster skyboard and .... and spirit proble and the webway portal.  I didn't see a limit on how many you can take so I assume the Archon can take as many as he wants.  The key point here is it looks like Archon can be on a bike now/skyboard now and take spirit probe and webway portal.  This opens up some new possibilities.

Spirit probe improves FNP by 1 max 4+.  Equiping Archon with this will net us FnP 4+ potentially on turn 2.  I saw a couple of entries where a character improves the bonus you get from the turn by 1.  I think it was Urien and / or Haemy.  So in Turn 1 we could get FnP 6+ and turn 2 we get FnP 5+ and improve by 1 from Spirit probe.

Next up was the webway portal.  If my memory serves me right, it allows deep strike with unit/and vehicle with no scatter.  I would imagine Archon is turning into the Deep Stike for loan much like the Space Wolves Drop Pods.  Question would be who will the Archon bring?

One candidate is the Archon Court.  It works much like beastpack.  Max is 12.  Can take any combos of Sslyth, Merdusaes etc.  Merdusaes has template for the eye blast.  Think it was S4 AP3?  If you bring 12 of them.. well... now ... you could template a lot of infantry.  Another candidate is 12 Sslyth WS4, S5, T5, 2W and 3 attacks.  If they get 4+ FnP... could be quite good.

On webway portal, I don't remember if it is limited to DE only.  I think it is not.  So this opens up even more possibilities with Eldar.

Deepstriking Archon + Seer Council?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth? Masssive melee?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth + medusae? Masssive melee + a few flamers?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques + second archon tanking Shadow field with all of them at 4+ FnP (except Baharroth)?

I think the key here is you do not need a vehicle.  So you could potentially bring in a huge ass unit of something right behind a ruins.

Barking Agatha- the codex was written with 5th edition Haywire Grenades in mind.

glnngu wrote:

I got a chance to flip through the book for about half an hour last saturday.  Dun ask me how my friend got his hands on it but he did.

I played a bit of beastpack and that's was the first thing I checked.  Beastpack is max 12 model in the unit chosen from any mix of Beastmaster, Khymera, Flock or Fiend.  I was mostly focused on Khymeras.  It got Daemon and Fleet(?) instead of invul 4+ save.  Its also T4 and 10 pts.  Overall I think beastpack deathstar is dead although the unit 'could' still be good as MSU.

On initial read, my impression was WTF!!!

On second read, there were some potential upsides - some of which were pointed out earlier.  I will list the ones that jumped out at me and correct some of the rumors that did not seem right.

The PfP is pretty much what the rumors says.  Turn 1 - nothing.  Turn 2 - FnP 6+.  Turn 3 - FnP 5+.  Turn 4 - FNP (5+) and furious charge.  Turn 5 - FNP,Furious Charge and fearless.  Turn 6 - all of the prev plus rage.

Archon can take Arcane Gear.  In the Arcane Gear section, it listed stuff like bikes, hellion skyboard, beastmaster skyboard and .... and spirit proble and the webway portal.  I didn't see a limit on how many you can take so I assume the Archon can take as many as he wants.  The key point here is it looks like Archon can be on a bike now/skyboard now and take spirit probe and webway portal.  This opens up some new possibilities.

Spirit probe improves FNP by 1 max 4+.  Equiping Archon with this will net us FnP 4+ potentially on turn 2.  I saw a couple of entries where a character improves the bonus you get from the turn by 1.  I think it was Urien and / or Haemy.  So in Turn 1 we could get FnP 6+ and turn 2 we get FnP 5+ and improve by 1 from Spirit probe.

Next up was the webway portal.  If my memory serves me right, it allows deep strike with unit/and vehicle with no scatter.  I would imagine Archon is turning into the Deep Stike for loan much like the Space Wolves Drop Pods.  Question would be who will the Archon bring?

One candidate is the Archon Court.  It works much like beastpack.  Max is 12.  Can take any combos of Sslyth, Merdusaes etc.  Merdusaes has template for the eye blast.  Think it was S4 AP3?  If you bring 12 of them.. well... now ... you could template a lot of infantry.  Another candidate is 12 Sslyth WS4, S5, T5, 2W and 3 attacks.  If they get 4+ FnP... could be quite good.

On webway portal, I don't remember if it is limited to DE only.  I think it is not.  So this opens up even more possibilities with Eldar.

Deepstriking Archon + Seer Council?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth? Masssive melee?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth + medusae? Masssive melee + a few flamers?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques + second archon tanking Shadow field with all of them at 4+ FnP (except Baharroth)?

I think the key here is you do not need a vehicle.  So you could potentially bring in a huge ass unit of something right behind a ruins.

The possibility of Archons on Jetbikes?

*ejaculates

Yeah.. its easy to miss Archon on Jetbikes/skyboards because it is not listed in the unit entry but rather in the Arcane Wargear section.

glnngu wrote:

I got a chance to flip through the book for about half an hour last saturday.  Dun ask me how my friend got his hands on it but he did.

I played a bit of beastpack and that's was the first thing I checked.  Beastpack is max 12 model in the unit chosen from any mix of Beastmaster, Khymera, Flock or Fiend.  I was mostly focused on Khymeras.  It got Daemon and Fleet(?) instead of invul 4+ save.  Its also T4 and 10 pts.  Overall I think beastpack deathstar is dead although the unit 'could' still be good as MSU.

On initial read, my impression was WTF!!!

On second read, there were some potential upsides - some of which were pointed out earlier.  I will list the ones that jumped out at me and correct some of the rumors that did not seem right.

The PfP is pretty much what the rumors says.  Turn 1 - nothing.  Turn 2 - FnP 6+.  Turn 3 - FnP 5+.  Turn 4 - FNP (5+) and furious charge.  Turn 5 - FNP,Furious Charge and fearless.  Turn 6 - all of the prev plus rage.

Archon can take Arcane Gear.  In the Arcane Gear section, it listed stuff like bikes, hellion skyboard, beastmaster skyboard and .... and spirit proble and the webway portal.  I didn't see a limit on how many you can take so I assume the Archon can take as many as he wants.  The key point here is it looks like Archon can be on a bike now/skyboard now and take spirit probe and webway portal.  This opens up some new possibilities.

Spirit probe improves FNP by 1 max 4+.  Equiping Archon with this will net us FnP 4+ potentially on turn 2.  I saw a couple of entries where a character improves the bonus you get from the turn by 1.  I think it was Urien and / or Haemy.  So in Turn 1 we could get FnP 6+ and turn 2 we get FnP 5+ and improve by 1 from Spirit probe.

Next up was the webway portal.  If my memory serves me right, it allows deep strike with unit/and vehicle with no scatter.  I would imagine Archon is turning into the Deep Stike for loan much like the Space Wolves Drop Pods.  Question would be who will the Archon bring?

One candidate is the Archon Court.  It works much like beastpack.  Max is 12.  Can take any combos of Sslyth, Merdusaes etc.  Merdusaes has template for the eye blast.  Think it was S4 AP3?  If you bring 12 of them.. well... now ... you could template a lot of infantry.  Another candidate is 12 Sslyth WS4, S5, T5, 2W and 3 attacks.  If they get 4+ FnP... could be quite good.

On webway portal, I don't remember if it is limited to DE only.  I think it is not.  So this opens up even more possibilities with Eldar.

Deepstriking Archon + Seer Council?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth? Masssive melee?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth + medusae? Masssive melee + a few flamers?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques + second archon tanking Shadow field with all of them at 4+ FnP (except Baharroth)?

I think the key here is you do not need a vehicle.  So you could potentially bring in a huge ass unit of something right behind a ruins.

At the risk of being rude;

If you are lying about the bikes and skyboards I will hate you forever lol.

Red Corsair wrote:

glnngu wrote:

I got a chance to flip through the book for about half an hour last saturday.  Dun ask me how my friend got his hands on it but he did.

I played a bit of beastpack and that's was the first thing I checked.  Beastpack is max 12 model in the unit chosen from any mix of Beastmaster, Khymera, Flock or Fiend.  I was mostly focused on Khymeras.  It got Daemon and Fleet(?) instead of invul 4+ save.  Its also T4 and 10 pts.  Overall I think beastpack deathstar is dead although the unit 'could' still be good as MSU.

On initial read, my impression was WTF!!!

On second read, there were some potential upsides - some of which were pointed out earlier.  I will list the ones that jumped out at me and correct some of the rumors that did not seem right.

The PfP is pretty much what the rumors says.  Turn 1 - nothing.  Turn 2 - FnP 6+.  Turn 3 - FnP 5+.  Turn 4 - FNP (5+) and furious charge.  Turn 5 - FNP,Furious Charge and fearless.  Turn 6 - all of the prev plus rage.

Archon can take Arcane Gear.  In the Arcane Gear section, it listed stuff like bikes, hellion skyboard, beastmaster skyboard and .... and spirit proble and the webway portal.  I didn't see a limit on how many you can take so I assume the Archon can take as many as he wants.  The key point here is it looks like Archon can be on a bike now/skyboard now and take spirit probe and webway portal.  This opens up some new possibilities.

Spirit probe improves FNP by 1 max 4+.  Equiping Archon with this will net us FnP 4+ potentially on turn 2.  I saw a couple of entries where a character improves the bonus you get from the turn by 1.  I think it was Urien and / or Haemy.  So in Turn 1 we could get FnP 6+ and turn 2 we get FnP 5+ and improve by 1 from Spirit probe.

Next up was the webway portal.  If my memory serves me right, it allows deep strike with unit/and vehicle with no scatter.  I would imagine Archon is turning into the Deep Stike for loan much like the Space Wolves Drop Pods.  Question would be who will the Archon bring?

One candidate is the Archon Court.  It works much like beastpack.  Max is 12.  Can take any combos of Sslyth, Merdusaes etc.  Merdusaes has template for the eye blast.  Think it was S4 AP3?  If you bring 12 of them.. well... now ... you could template a lot of infantry.  Another candidate is 12 Sslyth WS4, S5, T5, 2W and 3 attacks.  If they get 4+ FnP... could be quite good.

On webway portal, I don't remember if it is limited to DE only.  I think it is not.  So this opens up even more possibilities with Eldar.

Deepstriking Archon + Seer Council?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth? Masssive melee?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + Sslyth + medusae? Masssive melee + a few flamers?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques?
Deepstriking archon + Baharroth + 10 Groteques + second archon tanking Shadow field with all of them at 4+ FnP (except Baharroth)?

I think the key here is you do not need a vehicle.  So you could potentially bring in a huge ass unit of something right behind a ruins.

At the risk of being rude;

If you are lying about the bikes and skyboards I will hate you forever lol.

Have to say I was kind of hoping for wings. Lol.

PainReaver wrote:

Barking Agatha- the codex was written with 5th edition Haywire Grenades in mind.

My point being, 5th edition Haywire Grenades did exactly the same thing as 6th and 7th edition Haywire Grenades, word for word. The only diff is that we didn't have Hull Points back then, and had to roll several glancing hits until the thing went down, but they served the same purpose.

Wyches were supposed to be able to haywire any vehicles they encountered... hence why they were given haywire grenades!

and now immagine a drop pod based army with 3-5+ pods, your 2man painengine unit gonna eat the the biggest unit in seconds, you shooot the assault termies to crap with splinter if they come and you dont have to worry for another turn of backyard harrassment, otherwise run them like crap it happend 1-2 times for me that talon ran 5-6" for 2 turns than eating up blood angels

5ed haywire wasn't ultimative anti-vehicle rule. Wyches could lock down and slowly destroy a dread, or incapacitate a tank, that's sure. But no glassing land raiders on a single charge.

It was, actually, predictable and reasonable. What is certainly not is the rest of crap.

And, thanks GW for nerfing old Terrify. If it was the same, by alllying with 5 Spiritseers and going into Telepathy with all of them, Terrorbomb might have been a thing!

PainReaver wrote:

Oh my Lord .......

Nice to see some of the positives being pointed out, thanks PainReaver!

glnngu wrote:

.......

Archon can take Arcane Gear.  In the Arcane Gear section, it listed stuff like bikes, hellion skyboard, beastmaster skyboard and .... and spirit proble and the webway portal.  I didn't see a limit on how many you can take so I assume the Archon can take as many as he wants.  The key point here is it looks like Archon can be on a bike now/skyboard now and take spirit probe and webway portal.  This opens up some new possibilities.

Spirit probe improves FNP by 1 max 4+.  Equiping Archon with this will net us FnP 4+ potentially on turn 2.  I saw a couple of entries where a character improves the bonus you get from the turn by 1.  I think it was Urien and / or Haemy.  So in Turn 1 we could get FnP 6+ and turn 2 we get FnP 5+ and improve by 1 from Spirit probe.

.......

And thank you too, ginngu. I think you have just made many people very, very happy!

OMG i think have to take that back.. think jetbikes, skyboards are in the gear list but not in the buy list for Archon . Sorry guys.

glnngu wrote:

OMG i think have to take that back.. think jetbikes, skyboards are in the gear list but not in the buy list for Archon .  Sorry guys.

Thanks for letting us know ginngu.

If possible can you get the exact rules for the terrofex grenade launcher?

Gobsmakked wrote:

PainReaver wrote:

Oh my Lord  .......

Nice to see some of the positives being pointed out, thanks PainReaver!

glnngu wrote:

.......

Archon can take Arcane Gear.  In the Arcane Gear section, it listed stuff like bikes, hellion skyboard, beastmaster skyboard and .... and spirit proble and the webway portal.  I didn't see a limit on how many you can take so I assume the Archon can take as many as he wants.  The key point here is it looks like Archon can be on a bike now/skyboard now and take spirit probe and webway portal.  This opens up some new possibilities.

Spirit probe improves FNP by 1 max 4+.  Equiping Archon with this will net us FnP 4+ potentially on turn 2.  I saw a couple of entries where a character improves the bonus you get from the turn by 1.  I think it was Urien and / or Haemy.  So in Turn 1 we could get FnP 6+ and turn 2 we get FnP 5+ and improve by 1 from Spirit probe.

.......

And thank you too, ginngu.  I think you have just made many people very, very happy!

I'm sick of the whine. We have new tools. We've got buffs. Not direct stat buffs, but more tricks up our sleeve. We are tricksy, not cheesy.

Here's a potential combo roll (based on working net rumours, not ginngu's revelations)-

HQ

Archon w/ Soul Trap, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Animus Vitae, Parasite's Kiss and Djinn Blade/Agonizer.

No, he is not meant to go challenging Draigo. What he is going to kill, is that Devastator Squad or half-beaten Tac Squad, or an entire squad of Imperial Company Command, or whatever is holding an objective. So our little boss here has a soul trap which can he get after killing the poor sergeant in a challenge. Of course, the sergeant will refuse half the time, unless he is a Chaos Champion, but that doesn't really matter- once the rest of the sergeant's squad is being hacked to bits either by the archon (warm-up i.e) and/or his squad, leaving the sergeant for last (unless he is a true threat, then eliminate him first regardless), smile w/ glee, make said sergeant an offer he can't refuse. *stab *stab

Now the other parts of the gear will enable everything else. As you are going to get more awesome as the game goes on, take this into account. If you lucked out and rolled for +1 strength for drugs, or attack, then brilliant. The Shadow Field is there for tanking as before, the PKiss/Animus Vitae is for shooting just before you charge, if it kills someone, and you took a wound as a result of Djinn Blade shenanigans, its cancelled out. Throw the Animus Vitae at some point, possibly on turn 2/3 for most effect, and it may not work out, but if it does, your entire army is one step ahead on the pain threshold.

Now in the late game that's where he shines. I wished Rage was on turn 5 and fearless on 6, but can't have everything. If it does to go to turn 6, throw himself (and his squad, if they are alive) into someone holding an objective- troops or not. With furious charge, a couple of trapped souls, the right drugs, he could hit at least s6 or s7 on the charge. At worst it may be s4 but oh well. With rage and the Djinn Blade and a pistol, he now has 9 attacks, just by himself- s4-7, ap3, 9 attacks; can't think of other HQs who could reliably murder a mob other than an SM commander armed with Teeth of Terra and a Power Fist. With his squad backing him up, the unit that the Archon attacked is pretty dead. And you've secured the objective won at least 1 victory point, and that might just equalize you the game or win it altogether. Agonizers are adequate for those who have bad history with dice (Djinn Blades are for real men, you wimp). An Armour of Misery could be useful against non Marines to wipe out units faster in sweeping advances (you have I7-8, depending on drugs).

6-9x Reavers, Arena Champion w/ Agonizer, 2-3x Caltrops, 2-3x Heat Lances/Blasters

This unit is expensive. It is fragile. It is the epitome of all things Dark Eldar. But when it hits, it will murder.

Okay so assuming old bladevane is out, the new just upgrades the hammer of wrath component. Normal vanes, 1 s4 hit. Caltrops are either d6 s4 or d6 s6. Both have rending. Against infantry, shoot all your weapons first, including any lances or blasters to even up (sorry i mean, rig) the odds a little, on top of the rapid fire splinter rifles. Assault in Turn 3 or 4 when your power from pain really kicks in. And then once you are in combat, prepare to use hit and run to get out to make another charge (you may lose 1-2 reavers here)

Old Bladevanes couldn't hit vehicles, but since new ones are just hammer of wrath upgrades- we can now target vehicles. Remember when you assault a vehicle, it counts the rear armor, a majority of which is av10, which should be your target. Fire your lances/blasters first; if it blows up, use a jetbike move to find cover, if its just wrecked, use the jetbike move to move behind the wreckage and use that to block LoS. If it doesn't, this is where the rest comes in. Those d6 s6 caltrops will return an average of 3-4 attacks per caltrop, so about 8, autohitting s6, 4s to glance and 5-6 to penetrate. If that doesn't wreck it, then s4-5, w/furious charge and depending on drugs, each with 3 attacks, 4 for the arena champ will finish the job. If this fails, go get a new pair of dice and offer your firstborn (and possibly a second) to the gods of fortune. I don't know if you can hit and run if you assault a vehicle.

4-5x Medusae in a Venom

Deep Strike this, move the venom, burn space marines. No-brainer.

Quote :

No, he is not meant to go challenging Draigo. What he is going to kill, is that Devastator Squad or half-beaten Tac Squad, or an entire squad of Imperial Company Command, or whatever is holding an objective. So our little boss here has a soul trap which can he get after killing the poor sergeant in a challenge.

Everyone can beat an Devastor squad or half beaten Tac squad. Why throw 150+ points on them? Even an Space Marine Bike Sergant can do this for half the price and better stats.
Plot twist: Imperial Sergant says "no, I dont want". Archon says "Oh pretty please... I need my stats" Sergant says: "Lol, no."
There is no way to force anyone into a challenge unless it is the only model... which regularly happen to be Models which beat the crap out of our Archon.

Quote :

If you lucked out and rolled..

Bad Mechanic.

Quote :

Against infantry, shoot all your weapons first,

Which will be snapshots cause you will spend all your turns Jinking as you only have a 5+ on top of your T4

90% of your tactics start with "If you are lucky"

Quote :

Deep Strike this, move the venom, burn space marines. No-brainer.

IF you move your venom after deepstiking you are not goona shoot. If you want to be in Range next turn to flame the marines, you have to deepstrike into Bolter rapid fire range. Kaboom.

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Quote :

No, he is not meant to go challenging Draigo. What he is going to kill, is that Devastator Squad or half-beaten Tac Squad, or an entire squad of Imperial Company Command, or whatever is holding an objective. So our little boss here has a soul trap which can he get after killing the poor sergeant in a challenge.

Everyone can beat an Devastor squad or half beaten Tac squad. Why throw 150+ points on them? Even an Space Marine Bike Sergant can do this for half the price and better stats.
Plot twist: Imperial Sergant says "no, I dont want". Archon says "Oh pretty please... I need my stats" Sergant says: "Lol, no."
There is no way to force anyone into a challenge unless it is the only model... which regularly happen to be Models which beat the crap out of our Archon.

Quote :

If you lucked out and rolled..

Bad Mechanic.

Quote :

Against infantry, shoot all your weapons first,

Which will be snapshots cause you will spend all your turns Jinking as you only have a 5+ on top of your T4

90% of your tactics start with "If you are lucky"

Yeah, but if your reavers are jinking every turn, then its clear you've done something wrong. Or right, if you want the unit to tank for the rest of the army.

What if the only model left was a sergeant armed with a bolt pistol and chainsword? Soul traps now work based on unsaved wounds inflicted in challenges- don't know about what excess wounds may do.

As for the above example about Dev squads- they're sitting on an object and you want it, so they won't get it. This game isn't about point investments anymore. It's about how much you dedicate to what role.

Feel No Pain and Furious Charge are guaranteed. The luck elements mostly speed it up along. And the other combat drugs have benefits too. How about T5 reavers? or 4 attack reavers. Or reavers that shoot on 2+ to hit.

Quote :

Yeah, but if your reavers are jinking every turn, then its clear you've done something wrong

So you are suggesting to let the die to bolters as great tactical achievement?
If you can shoot them, they can shoot you too.

Quote :

As for the above example about Dev squads- they're sitting on an object and you want it, so they won't get it.

Then you just move your Raider with turbo on the objective tell your opponent "objective secured" and still dont need the archon?

Quote :

Feel No Pain and Furious Charge are guaranteed.

Turn 3 and 4. Game should be near over by then. Our crucial turns are 1 and 2.

Quote :

And the other combat drugs have benefits too. How about T5 reavers? or 4 attack reavers. Or reavers that shoot on 2+ to hit.

No boost to BS.
Its WS, S, T, A, I, Ld. How about Ld9 Reavers? Super useful.

The game of dice rolls begins. I'm going to say that the wyches losing haywire grenades is annoying but frankly it was coming. To many moaning IG and Space marine players not to change that one. Soul trap change, is only going to be useful if your opponent is a moron.

Hmm do I want to make your HQ even better? Yes of course, why not, Tau sergeant away!

The huskblade if it changes is just straight up stupid. Typical AP3 blandify. Changes to PfP, I kind of liked it the way it was, even if I didn't make sense all the time. FnP army wide on turn 3, great but if I needed it on a unit, they should probably have it by turn 2 at least. Maybe it will work out, who's to say

Change to drugs looks interesting, I mean yes its removed some useless ones and replaced it with others, Increase to Ld and to Initiative strikes me as the worse culprits. The others could be interesting. +1 Strength and attack is always going to be the best. Plus 1 toughness, interesting, might be good on Reavera but toughness 4 on wyches? Ork boys are tougness 4 and look how robust they are.

Scourges not having sky fire and intercept? Wyches not being able to be the gladiators they are meant to be. Vehicles not all getting Aerial assault (I.e moving 12" and firing everything at full BS), ravagers losing an armour value, chronos and talos still have no point reduction. Reavers potentially losing bladevanes, Incubi get unwieldly, no flickerfields, liquifiers down to strength 3 etc etc. All just screams out to me:

"We need to bring everything up to seventh as quickly as possible. So lets just write a group of rules with no conviction or thought, copy and paste that bit from the rules, and drop any hint of insite or imagination. Done, right that will be £30 please. Right, lets get back to blood angels..."

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Quote :

Yeah, but if your reavers are jinking every turn, then its clear you've done something wrong

So you are suggesting to let the die to bolters as great tactical achievement?
If you can shoot them, they can shoot you too.

Quote :

As for the above example about Dev squads- they're sitting on an object and you want it, so they won't get it.

Then you just move your Raider with turbo on the objective tell your opponent "objective secured" and still dont need the archon?

Quote :

Feel No Pain and Furious Charge are guaranteed.

Turn 3 and 4. Game should be near over by then. Our crucial turns are 1 and 2.

Quote :

And the other combat drugs have benefits too. How about T5 reavers? or 4 attack reavers. Or reavers that shoot on 2+ to hit.

No boost to BS.
Its WS, S, T, A, I, Ld. How about Ld9 Reavers? Super useful.

Well shots fired at Reavers means other parts of the army are not being shot at. t5, with 3+ cover is not bad, could easily turn to 2+ with night fight or behind some low terrain. Sounds like tanking to me.  You can also bring a talos or 2 for tanking and still have ravagers.

The thing is that raider could disappear. And you might want to seize two objectives, one from the raider, and one from the archon. Or the unit holding objective is a Troop. Or the raider might not be a Warrior raider but the one that transported the Court into battle.

Crucial turns of old codex are 1 and 2, but i think we have to think 3, 4, 5 and 6 as our more critical turns, as we have no incentive to get early kills due to pfp changes, and more incentive on not giving away first blood. Turns 1 and 2 could be used for getting into position as part of a deep strike + webway pincer, and scoring opportunity kills, if its within easy reach and relatively safe to do so.

I think Aerial Assault ought to stay.

PainReaver wrote:

Old Bladevanes couldn't hit vehicles, but since new ones are just hammer of wrath upgrades- we can now target vehicles. Remember when you assault a vehicle, it counts the rear armor, a majority of which is av10, which should be your target.

I may be wrong but HoW hits the target's face depending on where does the attack come from.
Normal attacks will still hit the rear, but not HoW.

LSK wrote:

PainReaver wrote:

Old Bladevanes couldn't hit vehicles, but since new ones are just hammer of wrath upgrades- we can now target vehicles. Remember when you assault a vehicle, it counts the rear armor, a majority of which is av10, which should be your target.

I may be wrong but HoW hits the target's face depending on where does the attack come from.
Normal attacks will still hit the rear, but not HoW.

Either way, with the amount of speed we do have, there's no excuse to not jump to its back.

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Well shots fired at Reavers means other parts of the army are not being shot at. t5, with 3+ cover is not bad

If you have a 3+ cover then you are jinking. Thus not shooting at full BS which was exactly what I told you.

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You can also bring a talos or 2 for tanking and still have ravagers.

Why would anyone shoot on a 6" moving talos with 3 Attacks (yes 3, no more D6). Oh noez eh could maybe get into melee with my scouts before the game is over if he is lucky.

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The thing is that raider could disappear.

Hardly with 3 HP and a 3+ jink save.

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Crucial turns of old codex are 1 and 2, but i think we have to think 3, 4, 5 and 6 as our more critical turns, as we have no incentive to get early kills due to pfp changes, and more incentive on not giving away first blood. Turns 1 and 2 could be used for getting into position as part of a deep strike + webway pincer, and scoring opportunity kills, if its within easy reach and relatively safe to do so.

There is no difference between the codices in this regard. Turn 1 and 2 where not critical because stupid PfP incentives but because in turn 1 and 2 you measure if you did enough damage to survive the next turns. all about the stupid alpha strike. If you end up only moving arounf Turn 1 and killing nothin, the game will be over as you gave all advantage to your opponent. Turn 1 is where all our stuff is still ALIVE. Turn 2 is where you consider how much of your stuff is still there and how many antigrav had to jink. Everything after that is just cleaning up for both armies. Thats why you either win by a huge margin (good turn 1 and 2) or just lose horribly (half of your stuff blows up in turn 1)

The suggested Archon build is just terrible. So many points for so little potential.

If you want to have a CC Archon, just give him a freaking (that time it's NOT A WORD FILTER AVOIDANCE) Agoniser and take Court with at least one Llhamean. You've just got Prince Yriel with Shadowfield. Most MCs out there are 3+, and they would most likely to be as far away from said Archon and Llhamean with her ID on 6 poison knife as possible.

4 Sslyth would give 'em majority T5, and Spirit Probe will probe-ably give 'em 4+ fnp on the second turn, thus it's a good all-rounder - they can shoot, not brilliantly, but 14 poison shots (and a blaster if you feel like losing 1A on Archon) are certainly threatening for any low-count model units.

Hijallo wrote:

The suggested Archon build is just terrible. So many points for so little potential.

If you want to have a CC Archon, just give him a freaking (that time it's NOT A WORD FILTER AVOIDANCE) Agoniser and take Court with at least one Llhamean. You've just got Prince Yriel with Shadowfield. Most MCs out there are 3+, and they would most likely to be as far away from said Archon and Llhamean with her ID on 6 poison knife as possible.

4 Sslyth would give 'em majority T5, and Spirit Probe will probe-ably give 'em 4+ fnp on the second turn, thus it's a good all-rounder - they can shoot, not brilliantly, but 14 poison shots (and a blaster if you feel like losing 1A on Archon) are certainly threatening for any low-count model units.

Well, the suggested build is an excellent mob killer under certain circumstances, can be handy. Agonizers are pretty good. And if so, you could target monstrous creatures with it (they can hold an objective).

Well frankly, Archons have gotten progressively worse codex by codex. 5th ed Archon is nowhere near 3rd ed Archon.

As for Archon w/ Sslyth and Lhamean support. Now add a raider w/ splinter racks to make those shardcarbines hurt even more.

Again the point is, why are we all so obsessed about sending a character to fight someone who most likely a 2+, and most likely a 3++ or 4++, with additional feel no pain, and eternal warrior? I thought we are dark eldar, and therefore do not fight fair. The old Archon w/ Huskblade had problems getting that first soul trap that enabled him to stomp. And by the time he did, the game was already won for sure.

I see nothing excellent in S3 AP3 dude who costs over 200 points. He probably won't be able to beat "mob" of 10 orkz.

Freak (that one is to avoid swear filter) (Then why admit to it, seriously? It's against the rules.) splinter racks. We want to beat faces with that unit. And, to be honest, Agoniser wounding everything on 2+ is probably better than huskblade which often wounded on 6's only, even before you introduce invulnerables.

Combat Drug +1 T is freaking! It's amazing! It's FNP vs Str6-7! It's T5 reavers! They'll be able to actually LAST IN COMBAT FOR TWO PHASES before h'n'ring their way out and slamming into the unit second time after shooting!

There is no need to have to try and avoid the filter. There's just no need to swear. This is a PG13 forum about pushing little plastic men around the table. Please do not try to get around the filter - Cavash.