Casual 500 for LGS

Hi again guys,

I recently put up a starting 750 & thanks again for your advice guys, however, as a total noob to playing (collected & modeled for years) I have tried to learn & have decided to make a 500pt list to take to my LGS instead.

I have tried to apply some of the lessons from the previous suggestions & have come up with the following:

DE RSR Detachment 498pts

Lhamean, Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Venom (105)
5 x Warriors, Venom (105)
Arena Champ. (HQ), 2 x Reavers, Cluster Caltrop (73)
Talos, T/L Haywire Blaster, Ichor Injector (140)

All Venoms have Dual Cannons, Talos instead of a 3 x Lance, Night Shield Ravager because FAQ will be in play and only getting 1 round of shots in at full BS before the jink makes it less efficient & I bought a Talos yesterday & don't own a Ravager yet

So, if I get 1st turn I guess I deploy with all on the board & try to get in a full round of Venom shooting before jinks start coming into play.

Starting 2nd, I was thinking to D/S all Venoms & hide the Talos & Reavers behind cover & hope to weather the enemies alpha. Then shoot with the talos, charge with reavers & hope to get a steady supply of Venoms & their cannons for the rest of the game.

Meta wise, I know little, except obviously there will be SM & the owner plays Tau, but am hoping to be put in with other noobs & to be frank, I know victory is hours of practice away even with the best DE list for the points. My town also has an indi. gaming store with a seperate games night & will also take this there too.

Any tips, based on your hard earned experience so I don't completely humiliate myself & rage quit the hobby?

List discussion aside, I have a noob question to, if you don't mind:

As the warrior's venoms count as troops, due to dedicated transport, do they then get a 5+, not just the 6+ cover save 1st turn & during Night Fighting from the RSR rule?

Thanks again for any advice!

Rewind

The list is fine, although a touch light on AT.

That said, why would you make it a realspace raiders detachment? The only real benefit of RSR is that it allows you to take 6 fast attack slots, but you're only using 1, of which you get 3 in a CAD.

That means that you can change literally nothing at all in this list, make it a combined arms detachment instead, and have objective secured on both warrior units and their venoms. It also allows you to reroll your warlord trait on ANY table instead of only the DE one.

I might also consider swapping out one or two of the venoms for a raider with chain snares and a dark lance, just for a bit of extra AT. Alternatively, you could do a slight redesign on the list and try to fit a ravager in there. Maybe something like this:

CAD (499)
Lhamean, Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Venom (105)
8 x Warriors w/Sybarite (74)
1 Ravager w/3 Dark Lances (125)
Talos (120) (I'd normally recommend both the ichor injector and the TL haywire blaster, but at 500 points no one who isn't a complete D-bag is bringing a wraithknight, and if they are, 1 Talos isn't killing it.)

If you take the above list, you'd basically use the 8 kabalites w/sybarite as your warlord, and place them in cover on the objective in your own deployment zone, then take pot shots as able, but most importantly, go to ground every time they're shot at to hang on to that objective and keep your warlord alive.

The rest of your army would function as usual, and you'd have significantly more anti-vehicle firepower in the ravager.

Right now, your chances of killing a vehicle are very low. Good luck, and let us know what you decide to go with!

OMG theorycrafting sucks!

As soon as I read your comments I kinda went 'yeah, knew he would say that!'

RSR, because I was getting excited & using a detachment just because I could lol, & figured the 1st turn cover saves MIGHT be useful, but a warlord trait & ob. sec. is clearly better!

I don't currently own a Ravager or a Raider & kinda want to field the Talos, but if I picked up a Riader & went like this, would I be closer to competative?

DE CAD (499)
Lhamean, Dual Cannon Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Dual Cannon Venom (105)
6 x Warriors + Sybarite (WL), Lance Raider (126)
3 x Reavers, Cluster Caltrop (63)
Talos, T/L Haywire Blaster (130)

1 less warrior than your suggested & 1 less AT shot per turn, but split over 2 platforms & kept the Reavers because I like them . I worry that a single Ravager would be neutered after it jinks the 1st time (faq defo in play) which is why I didn't buy a Ravager in the 1st place.

List would be purely to try & learn the rules properly & I fully appreciate that once I've actually played a few games, I would probably not even suggest the above lol

Also my model count is limited, I'll have to proxy the Lhamean out of the witchs that come with the venoms & like I mentioned, have to buy a Raider. On that note, I assume I buy a Ravager box & not fix the side guns to proxy as transport, so I can technical field either in the future?

Though if I do that, I could just field the Ravager.

Thank you for your patience

Buy a ravager and magnetize it instead of buying a raider. That way you can use it as either a ravager or a raider.

That said, you still only have 2 anti-tank shots in that list. You basically took the lowest possible version of my recommendation and pushed for it to be a little lower, haha. Let me ask you this...if I play space marines and take, for instance, the list below, what do you think will happen?

1 CAD
1 Space Marine Librarian 65
3x 5 Tactical Marines in razorbacks with lascannons and twin-linked plasma guns 435
TOTAL: 500 points

That means your opponent would have 3 AV11 tanks with 3 hullpoints each. He'd have 6 shots per round that could hurt your venoms, raider, and Talos at long range. Your 2 shots will do roughly 1 hullpoint per round on average, with a 3% chance of expoding a tank per round. Nothing else in your army can hurt them outside of melee, and to melee them, you'd have to catch them. This means that all that anti-infantry firepower is completely wasted on any turn in which you didn't kill a tank, which is basically most turns in the game.

I suppose, however, if your opponent takes no vehicles at all, or only 1, you'll probably be ok.

Hmm, your SM list is a harsh reality check, although to be fair, as a new player potentially facing other noobs, how many people would have the models etc. to field this against me 1st game?

Even with a Ravager however, surely I would still find it a major struggle, especially once I get forced to jink? Do DE even have a counter at the points for this type of Mech. heavy list?

Or, as u suggest is the only option to just field as many Ravagers as possible?

DE CAD 496

Lhamean, Cannon Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105)
7 x Warriors, Sybarite (HQ) (66)
2 x Lance Ravagers (250)

Rewind wrote:

facing other noobs, how many people would have the models etc. to field this against me 1st game?

I have no idea. But I expect that they have the internet too. So it mostly depends on their wallet and free time, which you'd know better than I.

Rewind wrote:

Even with a Ravager however, surely I would still find it a major struggle, especially once I get forced to jink?

Don't jink unless you've already suffered a penetrating hit result of stunned or shaken that will cause you to snapfire anyhow. Just try to park your ravager where you'll get a cover save whenever possible, and when not possible, just hope for the best when they roll the dice. Losing a turn worth of shooting is almost never worth it.

Ravagers are your best bet against enemy tanks without resorting to allies. With AV11, they also are likely your most durable AT option.

Rewind wrote:

DE CAD 496

Lhamean, Cannon Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105)
7 x Warriors, Sybarite (HQ) (66)
2 x Lance Ravagers (250)

List looks good.

Generally with DE, our AT options are just as many lance ravagers as possible, unless you also go with haywire blasters on Talos and Scourges or something. But point for point, I like ravagers against other DE AT options.

Good luck and let us know how you do!

Thanks again & as always, for your comments & wisdom!

So, after a few more days theory crafting while at work, I've pretty much decided how I'm going to rock my 1st proper game. Sadly the list will be limited by my budget & the fact I would still like to be married at the end of the bank holiday weekend!

'Best I can currently do' DE CAD 498

Lhamean, Cannon Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105)
5 x Warriors, Incl. Sybarite w/ Haywire Grenade (HQ), Cannon Venom (120)
3 x Reavers, Incl. 1 x Lance, Cluster Caltrops (73)
Triple Lance Ravager (125)

Initially I thought to take an Arena Champ. as HQ, but wanted to spread it away from my only other AT weapon, so they have to either slay my warlord OR take out the lance, not both at the same time

'The next step list' DE CAD 496

Lhamean, Dual Cannon Venom (75) (Deploys in the Raider)
5 x Warriors, Dual Cannon Venom
6 x Warriors Incl. Sybarite (HQ), Lance Raider
3 x Reavers Incl. Lance, Cluster Caltrop
Triple Lance Ravager

The above includes a Raider I can't get away with trying to sneak past my wife for awhile & looks generally better than the 1st list IMO, however below is what I'd field if I wasn't married

'Money no problem list' DE CAD 499

Lhamean (10) Deploys in Raider
5 x Warriors, Dual Cannon Venom (105)
8 x Warriors, incl. Sybarite (HQ), Lance Raider
2 x Triple Lance Ravagers

Drops a non obs-sec. Venom & the Reavers (Obviously), but gives me sooo much more AT/high S shooting!


So, I guess my questions would be:

1. Is the 1st list terrible?
2. Is the 2nd list better than the 1st?
3. Is the 3rd list better than the others?

I appreciate your feedback & thanks in advance!

Rewind

The first list is fine. With list 3, I might drop 1 warrior from your squad and make that raider a venom, if you're already going to be running 2 ravagers. Might also make it more attainable for you, if you already have the venoms.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Do u mean list 2? as list 3 has 8 warriors?

Rewind wrote:

Lhamean (10) Deploys in Raider
5 x Warriors, Dual Cannon Venom (105)
8 x Warriors, incl. Sybarite (HQ), Lance Raider
2 x Triple Lance Ravagers

Drops a non obs-sec. Venom & the Reavers (Obviously), but gives me sooo much more AT/high S shooting!

Bear in mind that the Lhamean cannot go in the Raider. A Lhamean is not an independent character, and as such cannot join the unit, or be in their transport.

If you're playing a Kill Point mission, or there's objectives on your side of the table, it's honestly better just leaving her in reserve or out of line of site in a corner, even if you COULD put her in their Raider.

Double Ravager is brutal at 500 pts... Especially if you're against newer players as you intend.

If at any time you're worried about playing against 'that guy' with 3 Razorbacks, well with 2 Ravagers at 500pts, you've inadvertently BECOME the Dark Eldar version of 'that guy' haha. And that's ok, but I do suggest leaving one Ravager with dissies if you do.

Remember, our tax units are pretty cheap, so you can squeeze in quite a lot in a 500pt list:

Lhamean
2 x 5 Kabalites
2 x Venom with 2 Cannons
Ravager with 3 Dark Lances
Talos

And still have 35 pts to spare for upgrades/warlord etc.

Rewind wrote:

Lhamean (10) Deploys in Raider
5 x Warriors, Dual Cannon Venom (105)
8 x Warriors, incl. Sybarite (HQ), Lance Raider
2 x Triple Lance Ravagers

Drops a non obs-sec. Venom & the Reavers (Obviously), but gives me sooo much more AT/high S shooting!

Bear in mind that the Lhamean cannot go in the Raider. A Lhamean is not an independent character, and as such cannot join the unit, or be in their transport.

If you're playing a Kill Point mission, or there's objectives on your side of the table, it's honestly better just leaving her in reserve or out of line of site in a corner, even if you COULD put her in their Raider.

Double Ravager is brutal at 500 pts... Especially if you're against newer players as you intend.

If at any time you're worried about playing against 'that guy' with 3 Razorbacks, well with 2 Ravagers at 500pts, you've inadvertently BECOME the Dark Eldar version of 'that guy' haha. And that's ok, but I do suggest leaving one Ravager with dissies if you do.

Remember, our tax units are pretty cheap, so you can squeeze in quite a lot in a 500pt list:

Lhamean
2 x 5 Kabalites
2 x Venom with 2 Cannons
Ravager with 3 Dark Lances
Talos

And still have 35 pts to spare for upgrades/warlord etc.

Rewind wrote:

Do u mean list 2? as list 3 has 8 warriors?

No, I was talking about list 3. I suggested dropping a warrior from the 8 and changing their raider to a venom with dual cannons. Then the Lhamean can embark in the venom turn 1, and your 7 warriors with sybarite can be your objective sitters in your deployment zone.

As far as I'm aware, they still haven't added a rule that says your unit must fit into your transport in order for you to buy a dedicated transport, so you can still buy a venom with a 7 man unit.

And what Hydranixx said is correct, you can't put a Lhamean in a unit with other things, but I assumed you knew that and were intending to put her into the raider alone while you left the 8 warriors in your backfield to hold an objective.

Thank you guys!

Every time I post, I learn something that would be slightly more embaressing to learn in person in my LGS, so thank you!

DE CAD 498

Lhamean, Cannon Venom (75)
5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105)
5 x Warriors, Incl. Sybarite w/ Haywire Grenade (HQ), Cannon Venom (120)
3 x Reavers, Incl. 1 x Lance, Cluster Caltrops (73)
Triple Lance Ravager (125)

List 1 it is then for now

I hope to finally get the chance to play a few games at home tomorrow & all of the above is in basic stages on my desktop, so progress is being made.

I have a Talos & a 3 more reavers, so I can slowly stretch upto 750pts & hope to pickup a 2nd Ravager next week for my birthday, which hopefully will allow me a little variety while I get to grips with the finer details.