Is it just me, or are eldar rubbish?

I'm just leafing through a borrowed Eldar codex, and, well, I'm not seeing much.
Guardians are so bad as to be borderline atrocious!

I was considering Autarch, Warlock and jetbike guardians, because its somewthing we cant do, but, actually, it doesnt look half as good as what an archon on jet bike would do leading a mob of reavers, it looks like a very poor relative.

Wraithguard and Wraithlord look ok I suppose.

But if anyone needs a new codex, its out craftworld cousins!

Well, seeing as we can't take an archon on a jetbike any more, I fail to see how that's a valid comparison. An Autarch isn't that useful to us. The only handy ability it gets, the reserves modification, only affects the Craftworld force. So unless you take a Nightwing, it's pretty pointless. The real gem for us in the Craftworld codex is the Farseer. Divination is nice, and even Doom is fantastic for us. Best of all, Runes of Warding really screw up enemy psykers.

Yeah but if we could take a jetbike archon, he would be awesome!

Must confess that whilst I am a longterm fan of the Eldar and have a fairly extensive model collection, I always struggle to put together a list using the current codex. It just seems so...meh! Everything is overpriced and the decision to give a 12" range assault weapon to possibly the worst assault troops in the game is strange to say the least. By the time Guardians are in range to shoot anything they are in assault range and, shortly thereafter, dead.

The Codex is totally mediocre at this point. However their are gems in their, often times overcosted though they may be. What you have to realize though is that no eldar unit can be looked at in isolation. Its all about the buddy-system for Eldar players. You put a doom/guide Farseer with a blade storming Dire Avengers (in a wave serpent) and you have up to 30+ str 4 shots re-rolling misses and re-rolling failed wounds. Overcosted though they maybe 10x wraithguard, the avatar, and three wraithlords (+ wraithseer if your friends allow FW) some harlequins and a farseer (preferably Eldrad so he can't double cast fortune) is about as fearsome and resilient a block of models as you'll come across. And though they are SUPER expensive, Rangers/Pathfinders and a tooled up unit of Dark Reapers are also a very formidable tandem. Work in some Dark Eldar allies and the synergy really increases.

That being said the Codex is in dire need of an update, as some of the classic Eldar units are approaching mandrake status. I.E. Swooping Hawks, Guardians and Guardian Jetbikes (which have no offensive punch whatsoever in my opinion). While other units such as Shining Spears,Howling Banshees are very very difficult to use, particularly banshees with the changes to vehicle disembarkation. Its a 4th ed book and a far cry from how Eldar played in the past. Ahhh the days when the Warp Spiders guns were instant death flamer templates.

I did look at Avatar, wraithgard with warlock (conceal) Wraith lord, and whatever rtoop was cheapest, but it was a lot of points, so save that for 1800pt tguesdays at the earliest

True it is a ton of points, but there is incredible versatility in the unit, and weaponry unlike any other in the game.
Btw what does

Quote :

so save that for 1800pt tguesdays at the earliest

Look at the wraithguard for example, fantastic resiliency from high toughness, power armor saves, constant cover save when equipped with a conceal warlock, re-rollable saves when buffed by a Farseer. Their weaponry ignores armor value on tanks, and with the new HP system if only 4 wraithguard roll a 3 or higher to damage any vehicle in the game its auto-wrecked. They wound monsrous creatures and all infantry with equal ease and insta-kill on 6's. Yes their guns are short-range and they are super expensive, but when you have the Avatar and a trio of "cheap" wraithlords (sword+ shuriken cannon and free flamers) you've got a monstrous multi-headed hydra of a unit formation marching up the board forcing your opponent to react to it while the rest of your army gets into position.

The Jetbike Seer Council say 6 strong with lots of singing spears, and destructor is still a devestating unit, that would work great with Dark Eldar reavers.

This so-called Eldar-Zilla/Wraithwall or Seer Deathstar approach is perfect for allied Dark Eldar as well as it takes a huge amount of pressure off of fragile raider + venom units, and truly allows ravagers to free-lance. Granted its super-expensive but its also pretty elite in terms of damage potential. However despite the perks I do acknowledge it is really not cost effective. I'm sure traditional Dark Eldar builds or even super nasty Venom Borne lists could achieve similar results in terms damage out-put, but I think despite the limitation of the Eldar Codex you can still throw your opponent a nasty curveball when you invest points in some of the more expensive Eldar units.

Eldar are not bad, they just isnt the top notch codex. My friend playes them, and he is properly one of those who win most games in our gaming group.

Perhaps rubbish was a poor choice of word.

They have always been more than the sum of their parts, but their parts do appear to be unusually poor on their own compared to us.

Can't wait for the new Codex and really hope the Eldar get a decent book.

They definately need a new book. Their classic assault elements no longer can assault (due to having no assault or open topped transport) and their shooting is way overpriced. The few good gems in the army (farseers, harlies, fire dragons, war walkers) are great for allies, but if you have to take a main army for them, it really hurts.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Can't wait for the new Codex and really hope the Eldar get a decent book.

Me 2, I have around £1 000 saved up to use on new army. So the money are kinda itching to be spent!
So I really hope the Codex is good! And I hope it comes in June!

I think Guardian Jetbikes are one of the best troops choices in the game. 66pts to claim or contest pretty much any objective on the board.

Sky Serpent wrote:

I think Guardian Jetbikes are one of the best troops choices in the game. 66pts to claim or contest pretty much any objective on the board.

This.

I know we've talked about this before but I just can't get excited by 3 x T4 wounds with a 3+ cover save. They can die to a single flamer!

its not their durability that makes them good Adhemar, its their speed. You can still pull last edition eldar "T5 I contest everything" with them, and being so small, they can hide almost anywhere. Also remember unlike our bikes they are rocking a 3+ armorsave as well, so they are just marines... with less WS and BS...

It's probably something to do with the scenery we use. There always seems to be at least one unit that can draw LOS to them and that means they're dead.

to each their own. I normally put them in reserves and hope they dont come out. If they do, I keep them as far back as possible, and behind LoS blocking terrain from whatever unit can hit them. I rarely run them closer (unless Im running a Jetseer with them, and then I normally hide them behind raiders and venoms)

Shadows Revenge wrote:

to each their own. I normally put them in reserves and hope they dont come out.

That tactic is literally impossible for me to use on account of Murphy and his blasted law which says, any unit I really need to come out of reserve will arrive on turn 4. Any unit I need to keep secret and safe will arrive turn 2.

Personally, I always think Eldar allies look amazing, possibly a no-brainer choice. I've not had the chance to test this yet but they do so much things we can't do, and have some amazing abilities when cherrypicked out.

The Farseer is one of the best psykers in the game.

I like the look of Guardian jetbikes. No they don't fly around kicking butt and taking names like Reavers do. The 66 point objective taker looks a steal though - frail maybe, but at 66 points, that's not a surprise. Take more if this is an issue.

Their FW stuff, if your opponent allows it, looks pretty sweet. We have nothing like the Nightwing - a genuine dogfighter - and nothing like the Warp Hunter.

That said, doesn't seem too much point making judgements when a new codex is on the way.

I've used Eldar allies before to great effect - a Farseer in a unit of Warriors, within casting range of my Pathfinders proved very frustrating for my opponent, allowing them to re-roll misses and, on that occasion, ignore cover. Ignoring cover with lances and sniper rifles is fun They were smack in the middle of the board too, allowing me to cast powers on other stuff if I wanted too. I take the point that they're a bit overpriced in terms of points in certain cases, and the vehicles need sorting out, but like people have said, it's all about the synergy!

Used Eldar allies for the first time on saturday, was happy with it. Was just Eldrad and a troop choice, but it did crush the oponenent, and it did do me some good

Lately I've been going:

Autarch on a bike, Melta, Power Weapon --> He hangs out with the Reavers,

5 - 10 Rangers or Pathfinders

5 Warpspiders
+ tons of upgrades

The plan being to have lots of deployment options. Outflanking and deepstriking like mad when I need to close distance, or starting on the board when looking at an aggressive opponent.

Been thinking about adding shuriken cannon warwalkers and striking scorpions in a transport for more outflanking insanity, but I don't want to invest heavily in models only for the new codex to change something vital.

I must admit, after looking over the Eldar codex as an ally option for my DE (seeing as they are the only BB allies & everyone seems to be raving about the farseer) I can pretty say the best option I would consider (read only option) are the guardian jetbikes - 66 points for a more or less guranteed captured or contested objective at end of game is just ridiculous.

However beyond that, I think they are a laughably poor choice - as have been said, many models are just outdated, and any of those remaining that could still be useful (maybe fire dragons) can be compensated for with some blasterborn with a faster transport for alot cheaper.

Even the fabled & revered farseer is only terribly useful against whatever psykers your enemy has (likely just 1 or 2) unless you spend an ungodly amount of points on psychic powers for him/her.

Finally:

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Look at the wraithguard for example, fantastic resiliency from high toughness, power armor saves, constant cover save when equipped with a conceal warlock, re-rollable saves when buffed by a Farseer. Their weaponry ignores armor value on tanks, and with the new HP system if only 4 wraithguard roll a 3 or higher to damage any vehicle in the game its auto-wrecked. They wound monsrous creatures and all infantry with equal ease and insta-kill on 6's. Yes their guns are short-range and they are super expensive, but when you have the Avatar and a trio of "cheap" wraithlords (sword+ shuriken cannon and free flamers) you've got a monstrous multi-headed hydra of a unit formation marching up the board forcing your opponent to react to it while the rest of your army gets into position.

How many points is this exactly, cuz it sounds like pretty close to 1000. More importantly, especially from the perspective of a DE player, this unit block has two screaming & ridiculously impairing weaknesses - 6" movement and short range. Who cares how nasty / durable / expensive the unit is if I can just zoom around outside of its threat bubble with ease pumping salvo after salvo of splinter cannon fire and dark light into them. Against less mobile / shooty armies (maybe orks or nids) that sounds like it would work rather well - but against anything with speed and or range, its become the largest amount of points spent on a carnival style duck-shoot game in the history of 40k

Pauks818 wrote:

this unit block has two screaming & ridiculously impairing weaknesses - 6" movement and short range.

The important part is they are troops, all they need to do is hold that midfield objective/or get the relic. That in itself gives you an objective and allows you to control the centre of the board creating a 24-36" diameter bubble of area denial in the middle of the table. The same principle that make talos so effective despite their 6" move.