Duke Sliskus 1500 pts list: evolutive thread

Hi fellow Commorrites.
Since i've started playing with DE again, i'm gonna need your help to maximise the damage potential of my list. I really love the "no reserve limit" of 7th edition and wanted to play an army that could abuse that, so i decided to go with the Duke   
I hope to keep this thread updated with the various changes the list will suffer through time, if any, after every battle. If i am not too lazy i might even write a couplke of reports, but meh, my ass is so heavy...

Back on trak, the list:

Duke Sliskus
(150)

6 Wiches
haywire granades
(72)

3 Trueborns
2 darklances
(86)

Aegis + comm relay
(70)

10 Kabalites
Raider with darklance
splinter racks
(155)

10 Kabalites
Raider with darklance
splinter racks
(155)

9 kabalites
Blaster


Raider
with disintegrator
splinter racks

(161)

4 Blasterborn

Venom
dual cannon

(173)

4 Blasterborn

Venom
dual cannon

(173)


1 Jetfighters
splinter cannon

(155)

Ravager
3 dark lances
(105)

The general tactic is: usually concede first turn, deploy only 2 small kabalite squads in a corner (near objective) behind aegis, possibly out of LoS. Survive first turn of shooting (usually easy, i hope), then in second turn everything comes in and "beta strike" the enemy, focusing on a zone without scattering my forces. then i'll proceed to sweep the enemy thanks to mobility.
I've found, however, that spreading my deepstriking forces can prove unnerving for the opponent: being attacked on the whole board is truly bad.
With good positioning i can feign to be sparse, where in fact i can gang upon the more dangerous parts of the enemy army, even if some eassaults if it comes to that!

I usually face CSM, Orks and Ultramarines. Any suggestions?

The Null deployment method is one of my favorite things about Warhammer.  Turning the clock into an anvil against which you can land your hammer blows is SAWEET.

Two Jet fighters is cool.  The Reavers are a Beautifully modeled weak link.  You have all the pieces but the Reavers will be expendable.  So Night Shields would be advisable for the games you DON'T wish to Deep strike in.

Also:  you might be missing one of the main advantages of a Sliscus list:  DS'ing the Warriors should be done with splinter wracks and plenty of Warriors on board.  I think dropping the admittedly awesome looking Reavers would be a good start to accomodate one or both suggestions in some combination.

Hi unorthodoxy, thanks for the input
I think you are right about the reavers...but they look so good   
anyhow dropping those i'd have lots of points to work with.
I could add 3 splinter racks, another 5 kabalites with a splinter cannon in the 5 man unit and a blaster in each other kabalite unit. With remaining 62 pts...dunno. Maybe swap the 5 wracks for another 10 warriors with splinter cannon?

I'd probably try to figure out a way to have 3 units of blasterborn with 4 blasters each. The small footprint of a venom, paired with the firepower of 4 blasters lends itself well to deepstriking behind the enemy for shots at their rear armor. I'd capitalize on that advantage by making it count.

3 units of BB are out of the question since... i don' have the models i coulp proxy, though.
That would cost me (point wise): 200 more points...if i take another 3 man unit instead, and keep all units 3 man strong, that would be 146, leaving me with 18 more points, enough for 2 extra warriors!
yes. this could work. Another venom and 3 blasters can make the difference.

What about a beastpack to add a scary unit with 12" mov and rending?

A hameonculus with a Crucible and Liquifier to go with the Wracks if you have the points would be good.

Why the crucible? i've never found it useful and reliable enough to not go with something more drastis in the "one use" category (say a shattershard)
Anyway: edited the list on the first post.

Well the new Psychic phase promotes having either lots of psykers, or none at all. While in previous editions of the game, you may only use the crucible against 1-2 psykers, resulting in a fairly low chance of doing anything, that has changed.

Sure, in some games, you won't need the crucible. But in other games, when your opponent DOES have 30 warp charge worth of psykers, and you position yourself just right to be able to make him take 12 leadership tests, removing any psykers that fail without a save of any kind, it is awesome.

It's basically a built-in counter to the summoning/psyker shenanigans that have been created by the new psychic phase.

Oh, i see. Luckily in my meta we have no Psy-spammer cheese-boy
I think i can skip the crucible.
Actually i think i am even dropping the wracks as well...they where underwelming.
6 kabalites with a blaster could be more helpful, i feel...

Archon Rixec wrote:

Psy-spammer cheese-boy

You hurt my feelings.  ::psychic shriek::  

EDIT: So what you're -really- saying is, I'd pretty much own your local meta with psychic shenanigans. Maybe YOU should be that cheese boy, huh? Huh?

you are a bad person... i like that   
alas i won so much using CSM that i am uneasy in using any hard cheese list. i already proved that i am the king, muah muah muah!!!!

but, yeah, a psysriek heavy list would just be...definitive here in my area. low psy defence, avearge Ld values (only a score of Ld 10 units), almost no vehicles...victory could be an easy prize...but i will test my whit using DE, without shenanigans (apart for the null deployment, of course)

of course.

Awww, c'mon I'm not even venomspamming   
Am i a bad person too?

There is nothing wrong in my book with any Dark Eldar build. Our cheddar does not smell.

yes, you might say that our sole hpe of victory lies in our cheddar. relaxed lists are doomed from the very beginning!

Another two games: 1 lost & 1 victory.

The lost battle was a sudden death in turn 2...disappointing. I could do nothing to stop that crap Dreadnought to quash my "bait unit" and run them from the board.

Second game i fared better, taking more cover, not cornering myself with deployment. Also i found out that: only one unit as bait is extremely dangerous. Need to double up but?? Who??
Then, the bait unit needs some way to deal with armour, otherwise its screwed. Duke Slicus should NOT be deployed with the bait unit. Also wracks are terrible. 60 pts...frak you, wracks. They added nothing to my list (besides being extra lucky and doing like 10 FnP saves in one turn...) They are gone, now replaced with warriors +blaster. also gone grisly trophies. The kabalite squad with no raider has been split in two, one with blaster, the other with just splinter rifles. List modified in the first post.

A tought. How bad would it be to use as a bait 8 haywire whitches with a venomblade hekatrix?
just a unit, i know, but they will be able to fend off both vehicles and small assaulters units...
Another silly idea is to put as bait a Talos, but that would mean dropping a ravager...would it be worthy?

I've been trying to slim my 1850 duke list down to 1500 too, and one thing I've liked to have some extra models on the table and to affect reserve rolls is to run an autarch and windrider jetbike squad instead of the aegis and comms relay. If you give the autarch a bike and mantle of the laughing god you'll be very unlikely to lose the model as long as you play him safely.

I'd definitely put the duke in a 9 man raider with splinter racks too so you can take advantage of his 3+ poisoned unit rules.

Thanks for the hindsight
but, really, i don't want help froum our bigger brothers   
mmh...that way i'll lose a splinter cannon..but, oh well.
Edited list in first post.
Then, i guess it will be some time until another game: i'm going in vacation, finally!

Remember that the splinter cannons don't benefit from splinter racks anyway. It's one of the reasons I don't mind keeping the costs lower with basic splinter rifles.

modified as suggested, thank you
Tonight i'm gonna clash against some shooty chaos marines, led by Spawns and khorne lord with axe!

The game was won by the DE 10-9 but i made some errors, basically feeding the Khorne Lord with 2 units that could have been otherwise used.
I'm really underwhelmed by the uselessness of my 2 kabalite bait units. I really need something more scarier there.
I was tempted dropping a razorwing and take a Talos with a small special weapon for 5 pts. Then i could merge the two small units and give them 1 blaster and a splintercannon, along with a Sybarite. With 45 spared points i could beef up to 10 another kabalite unit...
Any toughts? I don't know how much i will miss the Razorwing. They do a good job but after the missiles have been shot, they are just hoping for some lucky pot-shots

Ok, so I finally took the time to really go through your list with a fine-tooth comb, and get into the meat and potatoes of it all. I apologize in advance for the long-winded response. The following are my opinions:

1. Get rid of all the blasters on your Kabalite Squads. It's inefficient. It means, no matter what you're firing at, you're wasting shots, either splinter shots, or a 15 point blaster shot. Better to keep them focused on firing splinter fire.

2. I think you're right. You can afford to drop 1 of the jetfighters. I'd replace it with a ravager, then put night shields and dark lances on both your ravagers.

3. Your 2 Bait Kabalite units of 5 should become 1 bait kabalite unit of 5. You're going to want to place them outside of LoS any time you can. If the enemy has any barrage weapons, you'll want to place them on BOTH sides of the aegis, outside of LoS. This ensures that even with barrage, at least half of your squad will get their 2+ cover save. Also, obviously going to ground if anyone fires at them for that 2+ save.

4. Start both your ravagers with night shields and dark lances on the table. This will give you more/tougher bait units to keep you from getting tabled by an alpha strike, and the night shields on the ravagers will(hopefully) force your enemy to move in order to effectively fire on them, creating gaps in their army for you to deep strike into. Further, you may be able to crack some transports prior to the arrival of your deepstrike forces, so that you can show up and unleash splinter fire upon them. Ravagers don't benefit heavily from deep striking anyhow. You can still use your blasterborn to deep strike to target rear armor of high AV targets. They're better at it anyhow, having a smaller deep strike footprint in their venom.

5. With the above changes, that leaves another 150 points remaining. I'd use this to make two of your warrior squads 10 strong, and another 8 strong, with all of their raiders having splinter racks(147).

This should result in correcting your previous army overage from 1502 to 1499.

Thank you! I'll take some time too to digest your inputs and will answer tomorrow

Ok so:

1) beginning with ravagers on the field has been done in the past and they blew up sky high on turn 1 or 2...night shields are useless vs 48" range weapons. darklances are 36" so...if i am in range...he is in range with just a 4-6" shuffle, not a gap-creating movement...imo
2) my meta is not vehicle heavy (just an ork player that puts battlewagons ad libitum and an Astra milit player with 4-7 thanks) so i'm not so shura about 3 lances on ravagers
3) a very bad issue: i don't own a second ravager. i think i'll wait the new codex and then maybe buy another one. maybe
4) about the blasters...yes i guess so. i'm gonna drop 4 blasters and with those points add some more bodies and splinter cannon/racks.

EDIT: modified initial list. Dropped 1 jet, added lots of bodies, dropped all but one blasters, splinter raks everywhere, changed bait units. A fact: the ultramarine player i usually face loves drop podding dreadnoughts. i need some antitank for the baits, hence the wyches. The three trueborns can be a nuisance, hard to remove due to aegis line, easy to hide. Also, my collection is limited, so...