Apparently....we might NOT be next

Mppqlmd wrote:

To prevent them from rapid firing you, you have to either keep at more than 17", or engage them. For ranged armies, this is easy. For cc-infantry... not so much. Covering 20" in a turn isn't easy for everyone.

Ah, okay. I thought you were saying that unit was good against all armies, not just some melee ones.

Mppqlmd wrote:

IF you can destroy a squad in a turn, they are easy game. But for an Ork army, destroying a squad of 20 necrons at range takes a lot of ressources. So orkz face 2 problems :
- your shooting attacks are recovered through RP
- you'll probably take the rapidfire fire-phase before you can attack.  

True, though Orks are another army in dire need of help.

That said, even against Orks I still prefer Immortals.

I hate Necrons.

I like Dark Eldar.

That is why I am on a Dark Eldar board.

Necron tactical talk can be done on a Necron forum, right?

:-P

Skulnbonz wrote:

I hate Necrons.

I like Dark Eldar.

That is why I am on a Dark Eldar board.

Necron tactical talk can be done on a Necron forum, right?

:-P

It's important for an Archon to well know his enemy.

Skulnbonz wrote:

I hate Necrons.

I like Dark Eldar.

That is why I am on a Dark Eldar board.

Necron tactical talk can be done on a Necron forum, right?

Well, given that we've yet to see any leaks from the prophesied DE codex, we might as well talk about something.

Could you make another thread? I'm watching this one in case of any new info.

The Shredder wrote:

Well, given that we've yet to see any leaks from the prophesied DE codex, we might as well talk about something.

lol I stand corrected. carry on then :-)

After yet another trouncing by Astra Militarum and their order and infantry spam: I'm done with eighth edition unless our codex is amazing. History and current events don't show any promise.

Quote :

After yet another trouncing by Astra Militarum and their order and infantry spam: I'm done with eighth edition unless our codex is amazing. History and current events don't show any promise.

My IG friend recently discovered Punishers
40 S5 shots per turn for 150 points. Or, in other terms, 123 points of Khymera (Assuming Ld 9), squad wipe 150 points of DL Scourges, or 192 points of Hellions (Assuming Ld 7) destroyed per turn.

I agree, we really need some help

Comparing us to IG right now isn't the best comparison considering they are one of the best codexes, but yes hopefully we'll be better prepared to deal with them once we have our own dex.

Hellions are overpriced.
Khymera you have a point, although I do not understand your math. He only kills slightly under 9, you have another 3.5 dead by morale but why the hell do you use units of 12+ khymera, use them in units of 5 or 6 and you rarely lose more than 1 from morale.
Scourges should kill the punisher. You outrange him, and kill about half of him each turn as well.
He only kills 1-2 scourge once he starts moving and once damaged this drops down even further.
The whole point with the punisher is that it is very good at it's job: not moving much and killing infantry within 24 inch. The thing is we pay a lot for our ability to strike where it hurts. In a straith up fight we always lose. but with 1 or 2 squads of scourges vs 1 or 2 punishers the scourges will win. Raw damage it is hard to beat the guy who get's double the shots when he does not move. So force him to move. Also remember get 1 guy into cc with the tank and he cannot shoot next turn.

I think his point is simply that a 150pts unit having the capacity to kill 200pts per turn at 24" is bloody crazy. That's all.

You can use MSU of Khymeras, of course. And he can splitfire and destroy 2 units per turn. The point isn't much about tactical options, it's about the fact that, against an army that can do what you do for half the price, playing isn't very fun.

40 S5 shots can be compared to 2 dissie ravagers (in terms of damage to vehicles)... that cost more than twice the price. And against mono-wound targets, they are even better.

Mppqlmd wrote:

I think his point is simply that a 150pts unit having the capacity to kill 200pts per turn at 24" is bloody crazy. That's all.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure a unit of Dark Lance Scourges has the capacity to kill far more than 200 points in a turn at 36".

Burnage wrote:

To be fair, I'm pretty sure a unit of Dark Lance Scourges has the capacity to kill far more than 200 points in a turn at 36".

They might have the capacity, but I'm pretty sure they'll need above average rolls to do so.

Even more so if they're coming in from reserve or repositioning that turn.

3 hits, 2 wounds, 7 damage average.

What is 7 wounds and 200pts?

Edit: You might get 3 wounds, but thats still 10.5 damage. Again what is 200pts and only 10wounds?

One and a quarter tau commanders are 200 pts and 12 wounds between them!

K but they have drones.... that 3.5 no splash damage really showed that 1 drone!

Um... you do realize that people take PASK in a punisher, use the tallarn strategem to outflank him, dropping 40 str 5 shots hitting on 2's, with a lascannon and two multi meltas right on your doorstep, right?

And if he does not die in return fire, he will be doing the same the next turn but rerolling ones!

But no, go ahead and keep believing our scourges are equivalent.

In reality, 4 dark lance scourges will be MOVING (dropping in, etc or they will already be shot off the board) so two hits, one wound, 3-4 damage. So pretty much a big pile of squat.

I am certain our new dex will have something just as powerful. Ammirite?

IG also have access to psychic powers - so they can potentially protect Pask with Nightshroud (enemies have -1 to hit) and Psychic Barrier (+1 to his armour save).

(Obviously they can do this with any unit, but since they can only buff one per turn, it works better with a high-value unit like Pask.)

Skulnbonz wrote:

Um... you do realize that people take PASK in a punisher, use the tallarn strategem to outflank him, dropping 40 str 5 shots hitting on 2's, with a lascannon and two multi meltas right on your doorstep, right?

If they've been doing that, your opponents are cheating. Pask is Cadian, and Ambush specifically calls out "Choose up to three Tallarn units".

just double checked. You are right. Freaking cheaters!

Skulnbonz wrote:

just double checked. You are right. Freaking cheaters!

Next time they do it, ask “So Pask is TALLARN now?”

Could still outflank a tallarn tank commander and get 40 s5 shots at +3 bs, so still something to worry about vs tallarns.

The Shredder wrote:

Burnage wrote:

To be fair, I'm pretty sure a unit of Dark Lance Scourges has the capacity to kill far more than 200 points in a turn at 36".

They might have the capacity, but I'm pretty sure they'll need above average rolls to do so.

Even more so if they're coming in from reserve or repositioning that turn.

And so does a punisher. There is some crazy talk in here regarding punishers. They have range issues and rubbish BS on a gun with zero AP. They do feth all to our armor and are not great vs our infantry in cover frankly. If you guys are struggling vs punishers then just be thankful you aren't playing my Catachans that never leave home without at least two hellhounds.

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

Could still outflank a tallarn tank commander and get 40 s5 shots at +3 bs,  so still something to worry about vs tallarns.

Yea, and why on earth would you leave your flank open? Warriors are dirt cheap and gain us access to more battalions, back line your "weak" table edges.

OR use your chaf to force him into a weak postion unless he wants to sit off the table all game and when he comes in wrap him up from a unit charging behind terrain and laugh as that 250+ tank commander sits there all fething game.

Skulnbonz wrote:

Um... you do realize that people take PASK in a punisher, use the tallarn strategem to outflank him, dropping 40 str 5 shots hitting on 2's, with a lascannon and two multi meltas right on your doorstep, right?

And if he does not die in return fire, he will be doing the same the next turn but rerolling ones!

But no, go ahead and keep believing our scourges are equivalent.

In reality, 4 dark lance scourges will be MOVING (dropping in, etc or they will already be shot off the board) so two hits, one wound, 3-4 damage.  So pretty much a big pile of squat.

I am certain our new dex will have something just as powerful. Ammirite?

I'm not wanting to suggest that Scourges (or anything else in our list) are capable of matching the firepower that the Codex armies can throw out. Because... of course they won't be able to, given the extra tools that the Codexes are providing over Index lists.

I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be expecting to gain similar kinds of tools when our own Codex does finally drop.