Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

This thing is sick. That means you can pull in a Cronos just for the stratagem.
You can build a FL Archon in a BH detatchment.
You can build a RG Succubus (with the RG relic) in any detatchment.
Damn you can even bring an Haemi with Vexator Mask in any Detatchment you want.

Ripper.McGuirl wrote:

With the wording in two places, it seems like it is designed that way. I feel like this would have been an easy one to lead with in the Warhammer Community article. “And that’s not all! You can no add Coven or Cult units to your Kabal detachment(or any combination thereof) without losing your Kabal Obsession! The added units simply don’t get their obsession.”

Pretty lackluster to hype the army up with "And you can even take all the units in your codex!!!"

Cerve wrote:

You can build a RG Succubus (with the RG relic) in any detatchment.
Damn you can even bring an Haemi with Vexator Mask in any Detatchment you want.

I don't think that's possible. To use the faction locked relics you need a warlord from that faction.

Oaka wrote:

The glossary in the back of the codex simplifies detachments, you can mix if you want.  I think the Cult of Strife requirement is specific to that supplement and may be something we see with future supplements.

Something different but the description of a Drukhari detachment is a little weird with the core rules in mind. Unaligned only works on the army level. Page 245 core rulebook, under faction you will find the rules for detachments and under army faction the one for the whole army, only in the army faction an exception is made for unaligned. So there can be no detachment with Drukhari and unaligned units, basically the mentioning of unaligned now RAW allows detachments with only unaligned units in it.


Actually is there anything RAW forbidding for example a space marine player declaring a fortification network detachment with one aegis defence line a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment and get access to Agents of Vect? It is a detachment with only one unaligned unit and so fulfils the definition for Drukhari detachment, and army faction only takes into account the factions of the units, not the detachments. Not that I support such play, but I am pretty sure at least one mad guy will try it and Games Workshop will have to errata our detachments soon.

On a hilarious side note the Webway Gate disables Power from Pain, because it has the Aeldari keyword but not the Drukhari keyword, while all the imperial fortifications are fine as they don't have the Aeldari keyword. If they keep the wording for all Aeldari factions the webway gate is actually dead, not that I would have ever suggested using it in the first place.

AzraeI wrote:

Pretty lackluster to hype the army up with "And you can even take all the units in your codex!!!" .

I totally agree, but, here we are!

AzraeI wrote:

Cerve wrote:

You can build a RG Succubus (with the RG relic) in any detatchment.
Damn you can even bring an Haemi with Vexator Mask in any Detatchment you want.

I don't think that's possible. To use the faction locked relics you need a warlord from that faction.

To use the specific stratagems, you need a detachment with that keyword.
To use the specific relics, you need the warlord with that keyword.
To use the specific warlord traits, you need a character with that keyword.

There is still nothing preventing you from making any character your warlord, though, so if you want to take a wych cult detachment with a Prophets of Flesh Haemonculus then he can be your warlord and thus take the Vexator Mask. You could also just take any Archon and give it the Ancient Evil trait if you're looking to add a fights last ability, without needing to make it your warlord.

Oaka wrote:

AzraeI wrote:

Cerve wrote:

You can build a RG Succubus (with the RG relic) in any detatchment.
Damn you can even bring an Haemi with Vexator Mask in any Detatchment you want.

I don't think that's possible. To use the faction locked relics you need a warlord from that faction.

To use the specific stratagems, you need a detachment with that keyword.
To use the specific relics, you need the warlord with that keyword.
To use the specific warlord traits, you need a character with that keyword.

There is still nothing preventing you from making any character your warlord, though, so if you want to take a wych cult detachment with a Prophets of Flesh Haemonculus then he can be your warlord and thus take the Vexator Mask.  You could also just take any Archon and give it the Ancient Evil trait if you're looking to add a fights last ability, without needing to make it your warlord.

But does the character get the keyword even if it's not in the corresponding detachment?

AzraeI wrote:

Oaka wrote:

AzraeI wrote:

Cerve wrote:

You can build a RG Succubus (with the RG relic) in any detatchment.
Damn you can even bring an Haemi with Vexator Mask in any Detatchment you want.

I don't think that's possible. To use the faction locked relics you need a warlord from that faction.

To use the specific stratagems, you need a detachment with that keyword.
To use the specific relics, you need the warlord with that keyword.
To use the specific warlord traits, you need a character with that keyword.

There is still nothing preventing you from making any character your warlord, though, so if you want to take a wych cult detachment with a Prophets of Flesh Haemonculus then he can be your warlord and thus take the Vexator Mask.  You could also just take any Archon and give it the Ancient Evil trait if you're looking to add a fights last ability, without needing to make it your warlord.

But does the character get the keyword even if it's not in the corresponding detachment?

The core rules allow choosing freely "with certain restrictions, as described in the publication that contains that datasheet". If there is no limitation in the codex you can choose for every coven unit in a detachment a different coven for example.

But something I realized right now, if you put Wracks in a Cult of Strife detachment RAW it is still a Wych Cult detachment, but not a Cult of Strife detachment anymore. Keyword Detachments, which Cult of Strife Detachment is, are defined in the core rule book.

Quick question, I might be misremembering, but were the Campaign Cult of Strife requirements more restrictive on army comp than the Codex Cult of Strife requirements?

albions-angel wrote:

Quick question, I might be misremembering, but were the Campaign Cult of Strife requirements more restrictive on army comp than the Codex Cult of Strife requirements?

Yes. The Charadon book specifically defines a Cult of Strife detachment as one that has all Cult of Strife units.

krayd wrote:

albions-angel wrote:

Quick question, I might be misremembering, but were the Campaign Cult of Strife requirements more restrictive on army comp than the Codex Cult of Strife requirements?

Yes. The Charadon book specifically defines a Cult of Strife detachment as one that has all Cult of Strife units.

Oh does that mean you can't even put Blades for Hire in a CoS detachment?

Soulless Samurai wrote:

krayd wrote:

albions-angel wrote:

Quick question, I might be misremembering, but were the Campaign Cult of Strife requirements more restrictive on army comp than the Codex Cult of Strife requirements?

Yes. The Charadon book specifically defines a Cult of Strife detachment as one that has all Cult of Strife units.

Oh does that mean you can't even put Blades for Hire in a CoS detachment?

Had to break out my copy to double-check. Blades for Hire and Unaligned are exempted from this restriction.

It is a CULT OF STRIFE Detachment.
From the core rulebook: "KEYWORD Detachment: A KEYWORD Detachment is a Detachment in
a Battle-forged army where every model in that Detachment shares
that KEYWORD, not including any models that specify that they do not
prevent a Detachment from gaining its Detachment rules."
So yes Blades for Hire are allowed.

Koldan wrote:

It is a CULT OF STRIFE Detachment.
From the core rulebook: "KEYWORD Detachment: A KEYWORD Detachment is a Detachment in
a Battle-forged army where every model in that Detachment shares
that KEYWORD, not including any models that specify that they do not
prevent a Detachment from gaining its Detachment rules."
So yes Blades for Hire are allowed.

Emphasis mine. Blades for Hire don't specify that anymore.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Koldan wrote:

It is a CULT OF STRIFE Detachment.
From the core rulebook: "KEYWORD Detachment: A KEYWORD Detachment is a Detachment in
a Battle-forged army where every model in that Detachment shares
that KEYWORD, not including any models that specify that they do not
prevent a Detachment from gaining its Detachment rules."
So yes Blades for Hire are allowed.

Emphasis mine. Blades for Hire don't specify that anymore.

You are right my mistake. That is actually quite typical GW, write a new rule instead of using a core rule that would bring the exact same result.^^

Just remember that, while rulebook talks about keywords, the Codex don't.

In the Codex you read that you can declare a Detatchment as a Kabal, WychCult, Coven or Realspace, NOT a <KABAL>, <WYCHCULT>, <COVEN> or <REALSPACE RAID> detatchment.

So, for example, a Kabal of the Black Heart Detatchment with a Cronos inside:
-For the rulebook, it is allowed because is a <DRUKHARI> Detatchement;
-For the Codex, it is allowed because you declare it as a "Kabal of the Black Heart" Detatchment. You don't need keywords for the Codex pourpose. It is our special detatchment.

Cerve wrote:

Just remember that, while rulebook talks about keywords, the Codex don't.

In the Codex you read that you can declare a Detatchment as a Kabal, WychCult, Coven or Realspace, NOT a <KABAL>, <WYCHCULT>, <COVEN> or <REALSPACE RAID> detatchment.

So, for example, a Kabal of the Black Heart Detatchment with a Cronos inside:
-For the rulebook, it is allowed because is a <DRUKHARI> Detatchement;
-For the Codex, it is allowed because you declare it as a "Kabal of the Black Heart" Detatchment. You don't need keywords for the Codex pourpose. It is our special detatchment.

The Cult of Strife supplement in difference talks about keywords, that was the point here.

Yeah the supplement is strange in that it introduces the idea of a Cult of Strife detachment.  There is no such thing in the codex- it would be a <Drukhari> detachment designated as a Wych Cult detachment composed of units with the <Cult of Strife> keyword.

Oaka wrote:

Yeah the supplement is strange in that it introduces the idea of a Cult of Strife detachment.  There is no such thing in the codex- it would be a <Drukhari> detachment designated as a Wych Cult detachment composed of units with the <Cult of Strife> keyword.

Perhaps the codex detachment rules were finalized at a later step in the process, while the supplement rules might be based on an earlier draft.

So far, interaction between codex and suplement is strange, to say the least, at least how it is worded now.

- You can take Lelith in Realspace Raiders, but cant give her WT with Alliance of Agony (it dosnt affect named characters)
- If you use Cult of Strife Succubus in Realspace Raiders you can give warlord traits from suplement, but not Artifacts and cant use stratagems from suplement.
- If you have Cult of Strife Patrol, but HQ from there is not your real warlord, just Tolerable Ambition one, you can have warlord traits from suplement and stratagems for Cult of Strife units and characters, but not Relics.
- If you have Cult of Strife Patrol and HQ from that patrol is your warlord you can have WT, Relics, and stratagems even on Cult of Strife outside that detachment (like in realspace raiders)
- And finally, if you want to ever use Lelith WT - she has to be main warlord and that will close possibility to take Realspace Raiders, because it requires Archon to be Warlord.

Thats a really strange set of restrictions.

So, if you really want to use that suplement fully, or have Lelith with warlord trait, you basically have to go multiple patrols way and make her or Succubus your proper warlord and spend 2 CP on other patrol characters.

I am probably willing to give Realspace Raiders for Cult of Strife stratagems

Yeah, there are some very strange interactions and a needless level of complexity in this codex and that's without even looking at the supplement. Take warlord traits, for example. With rules all over the place I decided that writing it all out would be the best way to get it straight in my head. This is what I came up with.

Archon
Availability: Warlord, Tolerated Ambition (1CP)
Options: Hatred Eternal, Soul Thirst, Ancient Evil or <KABAL> specific trait
Master Archon
As above plus Consummate Weaponmaster

Drazhar
Availability: Warlord
Options: Hatred Eternal

Succubus
Availability: Warlord, Alliance of Agony (requires REALSPACE RAIDER ARCHON as Warlord but Succubus does not have to be in the REALSPACE RAID detachment), Tolerated Ambition (1CP)
Options: Quicksilver Fighter, Stimm Addict, Precision Blows or <CULT> specific trait
Master Succubus
As above plus Whirling Death
Lelith Hesperax
Availability: Warlord
Options: Blood Dancer

Haemonculus
Availability: Warlord, Alliance of Agony (requires REALSPACE RAIDER ARCHON as Warlord but Haemonculus does not have to be in the REALSPACE RAID detachment), Tolerated Ambition (1CP)
Options: Master Regenesist, Master Nemesine, Master Artisan or <COVEN> specific trait
Master Haemonculus
As above plus Twisted Animator
Urien Rakarth
Availability: Warlord
Options: Diabolical Soothsayer

And that's just for the warlord traits. There's a completely different set of rules for relics and obsessions. All just needlessly complex and could have been so much simpler.

War Zone: Charadon

Honestly the wording is very obtuse. However, my understanding is that,

1) any Cult of Strife character in any detachment can select a warlord trait if eligible to receive one.

2) If your warlord is Cult of strife then you can give your free Relic to any Cult of strife character.

*2a) If you are using any of the strats to give a Relic to a Cult of Strife unit go ahead there are not restrictions.

3) To use the Stratagems in this book you must have a Cult of Strife Detachment as defined in this book.

So there are only two restrictions one to access the stratagems, and the other on the free Relic provided by your warlord that only effects some fringe cases.

Was this playtested as well? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Koldan wrote:

krayd wrote:

Koldan wrote:

Is there not in Crusade rules an option to make Kabal units Blades for Hire? That would make not that much sense if they can already be put into other detachments without any disadvantage. So I personally think it is not intended.

It's not an option. It's a battle scar. It affects one of the kabalite warrior units already in your army and they lose their kabal keyword, and get blades for hire instead. Basically, they lose their obsession. So, given that context, it doesn't help explain GW's intent with regard to the detachment rules.

Yes but it is a battle scar without reducing the crusade points, normally battle scars without a reduction also have some kind of benefit.

Tell that to the wych cults, whose battle scar is that they must roll 2 dice for combat drugs (removing the option to choose, so negative) AND subtract 1 from the toughness and leadership from models in the unit.

Something just occurred to me - Dark Eldar didn't get any sort of supreme commander, did they?

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Something just occurred to me - Dark Eldar didn't get any sort of supreme commander, did they?

Hands up anyone not surprised by that...