Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

I'd like to mention that our "new range" is ~10 years old A new model or two to go isn't that far out of the picture methinks.

It would be nice to just see new types if units all together, I know we just got trueborn, bloodbrides, and an actual new unit with wracks, but they have conditions added to them to get and don't actually get anything over the standard troops weapon or war gear wise ... I would love to see a mandrake troop selection and HQ option (DE psychic phase interactions can come from here), a heavy support for wych cults ( a beasts would be perfect here), and a fast attack coven unit (yeah I know but even zombies have a fast version, and if GW is gonna call them "shambling hordes" I'm pretty sure the Heamunculus would have created a thing that can shamble faster than the rest of them)

HERO wrote:

I'd like to mention that our "new range" is ~10 years old A new model or two to go isn't that far out of the picture methinks.

Feel free to pass that sentiment on to GW.

I think of it like this: in the lore, space marines are incredibly rare and their technology has only just now been updated after 10,000 years of decay, and they have 100+ unit options in their codex. Commorragh is an incomprehensibly vast realm that defies reality and recognizes absolutely no limits whatsoever on literally anything. An intercessor has 3 rifle options as does a heavy intercessor, but a kabalite warrior can’t take a shard carbine; the parts for which are available on a kit in a range that is supposed to be able to swap freely from kit to kit.
GW is just uninterested in expanding the options because there is some limiting factor they have assigned themselves, whatever that may be. I don’t know if it’s just rules-writing resources, shelf space, rules they set themselves about kits needing everything in the box, not wanting to mess with the sales of marines by making other things too good, a belief that aliens dont sell and so arent worth the investment, or what.
But we could have close combat kabalites and scourges, flying wracks, special weapon wrack or kabal squads, wyches with glaives, hellions with wych weapons, or reavers that are focused more on shooting or close combat, just off the top of my head, just from parts in kits that are available already. Let alone an upgrade sprue here or there, or updating some finecast models here or there, or bringing back characters, or introducing new ones or or or...
They’re Just Not Into It.

Ripper.McGuirl wrote:

I think of it like this: in the lore, space marines are incredibly rare and their technology has only just now been updated after 10,000 years of decay, and they have 100+ unit options in their codex. Commorragh is an incomprehensibly vast realm that defies reality and recognizes absolutely no limits whatsoever on literally anything. An intercessor has 3 rifle options as does a heavy intercessor, but a kabalite warrior can’t take a shard carbine; the parts for which are available on a kit in a range that is supposed to be able to swap freely from kit to kit.
GW is just uninterested in expanding the options because there is some limiting factor they have assigned themselves, whatever that may be. I don’t know if it’s just rules-writing resources, shelf space, rules they set themselves about kits needing everything in the box,  not wanting to mess with the sales of marines by making other things too good, a belief that aliens dont sell and so arent worth the investment, or what.
But we could have close combat kabalites and scourges, flying wracks, special weapon wrack or kabal squads, wyches with glaives, hellions with wych weapons, or reavers that are focused more on shooting or close combat, just off the top of my head, just from parts in kits that are available already. Let alone an upgrade sprue here or there, or updating some finecast models here or there, or bringing back characters, or introducing new ones or or or...
They’re Just Not Into It.

This. However, I'm afraid we won't get new units until after GW replaced all failcast models with plastic ones. Meaning I'm not expecting anything new until 10th edition at the earliest, but probably not until 11th edition. Before that we might get plastic Mandrakes and Grotesques, but nothing new and I'm not counting on those this year either. That's not even being pessimistic, that's being realistic.

Can you still give the ravager 1 dark lance and 2 dissi cannons?

I wanna cheese the maximum out of obsidian rose

AzraeI wrote:

Can you still give the ravager 1 dark lance and 2 dissi cannons?

I wanna cheese the maximum out of obsidian rose

yup, you can customize as you wish, its 1 for 1

Now, I don't care about Vect on the Dais of Destruction. I've read Path of the Dark Eldar and I want the flying Ziggurat. Ravagers are for new raised archon. Vect is beyond that.

Eh, I dont think I want to see Vect on the field again. He's not just some general, even a very powerful one. He's our Emperor, he's our Slannesh or Khorne, he's our Hivequeen Genesis (ok, I made that one up). If you put him on the field, it raises some really weird questions. What is he doing raiding? How do you make his rules so he is simultaiously fun to play with/against and does not immediately destroy the other side with one attack?

If we were AoS, then sure. You can field literal gods in that. They die and get reborn all the time. And yes, technically so do Drukhari. But I fail to see how the Living Muse (or fake living muse? Was it all staged to make him SEEM like a muse? Or by staging it, did he BECOME a muse?) troubles himself with even our largest fielded armies (which cap out somewhere around 3000 pts for competitive play, right?).

No, now we have established he either IS a god, or is pretending to be one, its prime for him to get an avatar or 2. Give us "Aspects of the Muse", or "Wills of the Muse". Make one of them the supreme commander.

albions-angel wrote:

If we were AoS, then sure. You can field literal gods in that. They die and get reborn all the time. And yes, technically so do Drukhari. But I fail to see how the Living Muse (or fake living muse? Was it all staged to make him SEEM like a muse? Or by staging it, did he BECOME a muse?) troubles himself with even our largest fielded armies (which cap out somewhere around 3000 pts for competitive play, right?).

No, now we have established he either IS a god, or is pretending to be one, its prime for him to get an avatar or 2. Give us "Aspects of the Muse", or "Wills of the Muse". Make one of them the supreme commander.

My understanding of this was that it's a very rudimentary and simple power play on his part. He's a petty tyrannical narcissist, so it stands to reason he behaves like those types do.
Yvraine does her entire "dies but gets better" bit, he gets salty because people are talking about her and starting to consider that 'maybe living in backstab-frak-you Vect's Gulch isn't the only viable option', and he needs to nip it in the bud. So what's a man to do?
Naturally you pull an extremely transparent "fake funeral" stunt, so transparent that Lady Malys goes "okay yeah this isn't even funny" and walks out. Then you declare that this childish stunt has made you a conqueror of death and the one and only Living Dark Muse, while punishing everyone involved.
And if someone disagrees about your new titles, well, they're more than free to say so. Go ahead. Say it. I dare you. Bitch.

Everyone who's ever been exposed to a narcissist knows the game. A no-win scenario. He "dies, totally, for realsies you guys" and everyone is expected to go to his funeral - held by the Cult of the Cursed Blade instead of his own actual allies in the Cult of Strife. Just so that absolutely everyone knows "he's not really dead, he's gonna kill everyone who goes to the funeral". If you go? Surprise, I wasn't dead at all, ha ha I'm so much smarter than you! If you don't go? How dare you not honour your beloved, departed patron and ruler!
The power play here isn't to make it so that you win either way. It's to make the other parties aware that you are setting it up specifically so that you win either way, and that they have no choice but to play along.


tldr; No, he's not a god. People are reading way too much into it. He threw a hissy fit and released his poetry compilation and he's so powerful that everyone else has to fawn about it and appease him.

I mean, yeah, I kinda guessed that it was a ploy. Though with everything as meticulous as it usually is, I would assume its less a Narcissistic tantrum and more a "A Dark Muse would unite the Drukhari, allowing us to truly rise above our lesser kin and evolve from mere pirates to a force of power emanating from the dimensions beyond. However, there is an distinct lack of one. Fortunately, I am well placed to assume the mantle, and in doing so, also weaken the position of that troublesome death cult while eliminating a thorn in the paw of my well groomed voidlion."

My point was more that regardless of what whether he is or not, even before he ever was, Vect is far more of an emperor figure, not an "on the battlefield" figure. His agents should be supreme commanders. Not Vect himself. He no longer ever needs to leave his tower. Immortal, truly unmatched, why bother? Why take that risk? He is currently untouchable. Except for that troublesome shadow district business... and Drazhar and the Incubi might be a little more unhinged than usual after their recent losses.

If you've read Path of the Dark Eldar you'll know that Vect could very easily appear on the battlefield to inspire his minions and drive them to new heights of depravity.

Or is it a doppelganger? Who knows? Do you know? Are you willing to take the chance it's the real deal?

Ot's easy to figure him on the table. Make the Dais of Destruction, a write a rule that explain that when the model dies, it was a fake, a doppleganger, an hologram or something like that.

While I do have an issue with the rules, the real issue I have is it just doesnt make sense.

Lets be totally honest. If they had NEVER had a Vect model in earlier editions, would we want him now? Outside of generally the younger players, no one is calling for the Emperor (and presumably his entire throne, given that he is now a flesh mass sustained by the souls of millions of sacrifices) to be a playable character. And Vect certainly has that vibe.

Ok, so we know his image, potentially a doppelganger, maybe a hologram, sometimes appears. Does it actually join in and murder things? Or is it a giant PA stand, riling the Drukhari up?

So what do people want from the dais? A powerhouse? A psion stand-in with buffing? CP and objective stuff?

Because none of that needs VECT. It needs an AGENT OF VECT. Someone to act in his stead. That way, our mob boss/Machiaveli/Little Finger (book, not show)/etc figure doesnt need to get watered down in order to drop them on the battlefield, overseeing a few dozen Kabalites. And if such an agent was made our Supreme Commander, it would make more sense than Vect if it is sub-faction independent (because Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart, while him having his Agents step in and take over operations from another Kabal, Cult of Coven on a temporary basis is far easier to swallow).

But hey, I also want a Mandrake HQ, Mandrake Troop options, Shadow Demons, Voidravens (the bird, not the plane), and for Mandrakes to become a 4th subfaction (before scrapping the concept of subfactions all together), so I am definitely in the minority here.

albions-angel wrote:

And if such an agent was made our Supreme Commander, it would make more sense than Vect if it is sub-faction independent (because Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart, while him having his Agents step in and take over operations from another Kabal, Cult of Coven on a temporary basis is far easier to swallow).

Not that I completely disagree, Vect is also not my first pick for a new unit, but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality. The supreme command detachment is the mechanic GW choose to fit supreme commanders into all sub-factions. The primarchs, the Silent King and Shadowsun all are still part of their own sub-faction. And lore-wise Shadowsun leading a Farsight army is as weird as Vect leading a Kabal of the Poison Tongue army and GW has no problems with the first.

Oh, its not a misconception. Just something I think supreme commanders should be. They are not just HQs, they are not even just Named HQs, they are supposed to be the ultimate unit, and frankly, should therefore be available to any and all army comps. Its clearly a position GW does not hold though.

No, it may be more necessary for us specifically because of our unique composition mechanics. Though Realspace Raiders does help with that.

Now THERE is an idea: A supcom that counts as all 3 HQ choices. Auto-realspace raiders. A person can dream...

Koldan wrote:

albions-angel wrote:

And if such an agent was made our Supreme Commander, it would make more sense than Vect if it is sub-faction independent (because Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart, while him having his Agents step in and take over operations from another Kabal, Cult of Coven on a temporary basis is far easier to swallow).

Not that I completely disagree, Vect is also not my first pick for a new unit, but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality. The supreme command detachment is the mechanic GW choose to fit supreme commanders into all sub-factions. The primarchs, the Silent King and Shadowsun all are still part of their own sub-faction. And lore-wise Shadowsun leading a Farsight army is as weird as Vect leading a Kabal of the Poison Tongue army and GW has no problems with the first.

Ghazkull is Goffs but can be included in any kulture without breaking the benefits. Not sure if there are others that work this way.

sekac wrote:

Koldan wrote:

albions-angel wrote:

And if such an agent was made our Supreme Commander, it would make more sense than Vect if it is sub-faction independent (because Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart, while him having his Agents step in and take over operations from another Kabal, Cult of Coven on a temporary basis is far easier to swallow).

Not that I completely disagree, Vect is also not my first pick for a new unit, but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality. The supreme command detachment is the mechanic GW choose to fit supreme commanders into all sub-factions. The primarchs, the Silent King and Shadowsun all are still part of their own sub-faction. And lore-wise Shadowsun leading a Farsight army is as weird as Vect leading a Kabal of the Poison Tongue army and GW has no problems with the first.

Ghazkull is Goffs but can be included in any kulture without breaking the benefits. Not sure if there are others that work this way.

Add Shadowsun to that.

albions-angel wrote:

While I do have an issue with the rules, the real issue I have is it just doesnt make sense.

Lets be totally honest. If they had NEVER had a Vect model in earlier editions, would we want him now?

I don't want him either way, tbh.

albions-angel wrote:

Ok, so we know his image, potentially a doppelganger, maybe a hologram, sometimes appears. Does it actually join in and murder things? Or is it a giant PA stand, riling the Drukhari up?

So what do people want from the dais? A powerhouse? A psion stand-in with buffing? CP and objective stuff?

Because none of that needs VECT. It needs an AGENT OF VECT. Someone to act in his stead. That way, our mob boss/Machiaveli/Little Finger (book, not show)/etc figure doesnt need to get watered down in order to drop them on the battlefield, overseeing a few dozen Kabalites. And if such an agent was made our Supreme Commander, it would make more sense than Vect if it is sub-faction independent (because Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart, while him having his Agents step in and take over operations from another Kabal, Cult of Coven on a temporary basis is far easier to swallow).

Honestly, this perhaps raises an interesting question with regard to whether special characters in general are really necessary or whether it would be better to simply allow you to build them with standard HQs and the right combination of wargear, artefacts, warlord traits or whatever.

Even Vect's Dais, for example, seems like something you could replicate with a 1/game stratagem that lets you give a Ravager transport capacity.

albions-angel wrote:

But hey, I also want a Mandrake HQ, Mandrake Troop options, Shadow Demons, Voidravens (the bird, not the plane), and for Mandrakes to become a 4th subfaction (before scrapping the concept of subfactions all together), so I am definitely in the minority here.

I'm sad that I can only like this once.

ArchonessNabu wrote:

sekac wrote:

Koldan wrote:

albions-angel wrote:

And if such an agent was made our Supreme Commander, it would make more sense than Vect if it is sub-faction independent (because Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart, while him having his Agents step in and take over operations from another Kabal, Cult of Coven on a temporary basis is far easier to swallow).

Not that I completely disagree, Vect is also not my first pick for a new unit, but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality. The supreme command detachment is the mechanic GW choose to fit supreme commanders into all sub-factions. The primarchs, the Silent King and Shadowsun all are still part of their own sub-faction. And lore-wise Shadowsun leading a Farsight army is as weird as Vect leading a Kabal of the Poison Tongue army and GW has no problems with the first.

Ghazkull is Goffs but can be included in any kulture without breaking the benefits. Not sure if there are others that work this way.

Add Shadowsun to that.

I am not sure what you two are aiming at. What exactly is your opinion about me arguing that "Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart" is not really a problem for being a supreme commander, as every supreme commander in the game belongs to a subfaction even Shadowsun, who still has an 8th edition ability in addition to the keyword and Ghazkhull who is not a supreme commander yet.

Koldan wrote:

I am not sure what you two are aiming at. What exactly is your opinion about me arguing that "Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart" is not really a problem for being a supreme commander, as every supreme commander in the game belongs to a subfaction even Shadowsun, who still has an 8th edition ability in addition to the keyword and Ghazkhull who is not a supreme commander yet.

Uhh...I guess I was aiming at these 2 sentences:

Koldan wrote:

... but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality.

When you describe something as a "misconception" and "has nothing to do with reality", I guess I didn't pick up on the completely implied "and this not really a problem" that you are now expressing.

To be perfectly honest, I had no idea how a Supreme Commander differs from any other HQ. I was merely remarking that while Ghazkull is not "sub-faction independant" as such, he also does not interfere with the sub-faction he's included with. So he's independent of the usual considerations of HQs fitting into sub-factions. That flexibility, combined with the fact that he is the biggest and badest ork there ever was, made him a "Supreme Commander" in my mind.

That might be where the misconception that some special characters who command in a supreme way and don't (as of now) require a Supreme Command detachment might have something to do with reality.

But I guess I misunderstood the point you were making.

sekac wrote:

Koldan wrote:

I am not sure what you two are aiming at. What exactly is your opinion about me arguing that "Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart" is not really a problem for being a supreme commander, as every supreme commander in the game belongs to a subfaction even Shadowsun, who still has an 8th edition ability in addition to the keyword and Ghazkhull who is not a supreme commander yet.

Uhh...I guess I was aiming at these 2 sentences:

Koldan wrote:

... but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality.

When you describe something as a "misconception" and "has nothing to do with reality", I guess I didn't pick up on the completely implied "and this not really a problem" that you are now expressing.

To be perfectly honest, I had no idea how a Supreme Commander differs from any other HQ. I was merely remarking that while Ghazkull is not "sub-faction independant" as such, he also does not interfere with the sub-faction he's included with. So he's independent of the usual considerations of HQs fitting into sub-factions. That flexibility, combined with the fact that he is the biggest and badest ork there ever was, made him a "Supreme Commander" in my mind.

That might be where the misconception that some special characters who command in a supreme way and don't (as of now) require a Supreme Command detachment might have something to do with reality.

But I guess I misunderstood the point you were making.

It seems you felt offended, sorry that was not my intention. But the sentence you picked was a reaction to something else. If you keep it in the context, I actually thought it was quite clear what the definition of sub-faction independent is. I did not pick one myself I just kept with the one in the comment I quoted. But you are right if you rip my comment out of context you can find a completely different interpretation of my text and even use examples that support my position and instead use them to prove I am wrong.
But if you really want it, I take back my argument and so basically say that albion-angel was right and supreme commanders never should be part of a sub-faction and that is why Vect and appearingly Ghazkul too would be very bad Supreme Commanders.

Koldan wrote:

sekac wrote:

Koldan wrote:

I am not sure what you two are aiming at. What exactly is your opinion about me arguing that "Vect would HAVE to be Black Heart" is not really a problem for being a supreme commander, as every supreme commander in the game belongs to a subfaction even Shadowsun, who still has an 8th edition ability in addition to the keyword and Ghazkhull who is not a supreme commander yet.

Uhh...I guess I was aiming at these 2 sentences:

Koldan wrote:

... but where exactly does this misconception come from that supreme commanders are sub-faction independent? It is not the first time I read this, but this demand has nothing to do with reality.

When you describe something as a "misconception" and "has nothing to do with reality", I guess I didn't pick up on the completely implied "and this not really a problem" that you are now expressing.

To be perfectly honest, I had no idea how a Supreme Commander differs from any other HQ. I was merely remarking that while Ghazkull is not "sub-faction independant" as such, he also does not interfere with the sub-faction he's included with. So he's independent of the usual considerations of HQs fitting into sub-factions. That flexibility, combined with the fact that he is the biggest and badest ork there ever was, made him a "Supreme Commander" in my mind.

That might be where the misconception that some special characters who command in a supreme way and don't (as of now) require a Supreme Command detachment might have something to do with reality.

But I guess I misunderstood the point you were making.

It seems you felt offended, sorry that was not my intention. But the sentence you picked was a reaction to something else. If you keep it in the context, I actually thought it was quite clear what the definition of sub-faction independent is. I did not pick one myself I just kept with the one in the comment I quoted. But you are right if you rip my comment out of context you can find a completely different interpretation of my text and even use examples that support my position and instead use them to prove I am wrong.
But if you really want it, I take back my argument and so basically say that albion-angel was right and supreme commanders never should be part of a sub-faction and that is why Vect and appearingly Ghazkul too would be very bad Supreme Commanders.

I'm not sure what you mean by ripping it out of context. I read that sentence in the context of your entire reply and misunderstood what you meant. I replied within the context of what I misunderstood your stance to be.

Then you asked what I was aiming at, so I re-quoted the sentences that caused the confusion. That isn't ripping it out of context, it is giving a direct answer to a question you asked.

What you meant was clear to you, but it was not clear to me. I'm not offended, just answering your question.

I think people want Vect because we currently have no centrepiece hero for our army, we have special characters that are kind of niche but no named character that can serve as an Archon of higher calibre than the current generic archon model. Most other armies have something special to lead their army.

Considering Vect was a model already established its understandable to bring it back, they could just call it the Doppelganger/Hologram/Clone of Vect, in the same spirit as the shards of the C'tan to explain why he would risk himself on the battlefield because it isn't even his final form. I don't see why Vect wouldn't want to indulge in real space raids in some form, even though he is incredibly arrogant and holds himself above other Kabals he wouldn't be one to feel restricted in his comings and goings should he wish to attend a raid. The Dais of Destruction could be a completely new design too that would set him apart from the regular raiders.

Otherwise why can't they just make an Archon special character to give us something more interesting to be our main HQ for all of us Kabalite fans?

insert meme "You must be knew here" GW never gives us anything lol. I'm actually really surprised about Drazhar and Lelith still (even though Lelith is terrible in everyway now).