6th Ed rumors and DE

Levitas wrote:

You guys see this?

Grenades can be thrown! Only one guy per squad. Frag are Str3, Krak Str6, Plasma Str6.

Nope:

Quote :

1 model per unit can throw a granade instead of shooting normally. all are blast except krak and haywhire. frag are S3 AP -. plasma are S4 AP4. Krak S6 AP4.

I agree with you Eldur, it's a new interesting challenge and it seems possible to be competitive with what we have heard. Let's wait to have the book in hands to make definitive opinion.

The Voidraven will be great as he is the only one who can cause ID to characters with 3 HP or Tyranides warriors. He will be hard to target but can easily spread his bomb on the field and come back later to shoot.

Razorwing is also wonderful thanks to the flyers rules, and putting one of each as support for the army might be a good way to threaten any army.

I'm disappointed by the Haywire blasters. They will just remove hull points and very rarely do any damage as you need a 6 to roll the damage chart. Now it's impossible to disable an annoying opponent vehicule for a turn which was their best strenght. I will go with Blasters which stays great.

Str 6!!!
Pleeease let it be a blast shot!!! A large one )


well S4 (small) blast is good enough for me.

Eldar and DE are friendly, as I said.

@Inrit--> 1 glance, 1 HP away... 0 HP: wreck. In 5th HW was usefull to deny tanks from shooting and/or moving. Now it's a good way to wreck them without rolling in the vehicle damage chart.

Whats the source?

It was from the Reddit Q&A, this answer: here

Thanks.

Eldur wrote:

[strike]@Inrit--> 1 glance, 1 HP away... 0 HP: wreck. In 5th HW was usefull to deny tanks from shooting and/or moving. Now it's a good way to wreck them without rolling in the vehicle damage chart.

If you want to target a Dreadnought with 3 HP, you need at least 2 turns to wreck it, so 2 turns (or at least one) it can throw everything it has on you. I think it's a problem, as before you were pretty sure to prevent it to hurt you. But well, it's indeed a way to break vehicles for sure so we will see while using it if it benefits or not.

Quote :

If you want to target a Dreadnought with 3 HP, you need at least 2 turns to wreck it

Why? 1 volley from Ravager can wreck it. 3 Glances and thats it for dreadnaught.

Damn...will we be able to use Haywire Grenades in combat?

I was talking about Haywire blasters. Ravagers have to stay efficient now that I've spent 1 week painting mine!

Nothing has been mentioned about grenades not being able to be used in combat.

Beginning to think this is the end of vehicle mounted Wyches but want to read the book cover to cover and FAQ first.

I have seen that nobody mentioned it so......mandrakes in 6th?

We all know that mandrakes in the 5th edi wasn't much to talk about......but how do they fare now?
Does the rules make more sense for them now?

Sky Serpent wrote:

Nothing has been mentioned about grenades not being able to be used in combat.

Beginning to think this is the end of vehicle mounted Wyches but want to read the book cover to cover and FAQ first.

No offensive and defensive grenades act as in 5th edition.

NiteOwl wrote:

I have seen that nobody mentioned it so......mandrakes in 6th?

We all know that mandrakes in the 5th edi wasn't much to talk about......but how do they fare now?
Does the rules make more sense for them now?

Nothing seems to have made them better, infiltrate is the same and as cover is mostly 5+ now they die easier in cover. Unless their CC weapon is made a good AP (unlikely) they are actually slightly worse. Also random charges dont really help.

I was discussing using grenades in combat, assuming we can still.

About lances not being made better to justify their high price, do note that their main competitor (the missile launcher, which is identical to lance 90% of the time but is cheaper), will be getting a nerf. Missile launchers and other ap>3 weapons get no bonuses to damage rolls, and will only destroy vehicles on 6+, while lances destroy vehicles on 5+ (and meltaguns on 3+). So that sort-of justifies the extra cost of lance over missiles (well, that and the lance rule, which might be of some actual use if people start using more high av, 4 hull point vehicles).

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/06/beasts-nightfighting-and-warlords-in.html

Quote :

Night Fight changed completely:
Every mission has Night Fight by default, but only on a 4+, including Turn 1. If it triggers, keep rolling each turn til it fails.
cant shoot over 36. over 24 away have shrouded (+2 cover save), over 12 away have stealth.
Night Vision now completely ignores Night Fight, as well.
It's important to note that doesn't include Acute Senses (which is now just a re-roll for Outflank), so we're mostly talking about Dark Eldar.

So yea I smell Pure win out of this one. Now if there where only ways to make sure it is on all game

ally farseer with divination allowing to re-roll it???

ally with necrons


GOOD IDEA!!! Coven Army counts-as necrons!!!!! HUUUUGE

pingualoty wrote:

NiteOwl wrote:

I have seen that nobody mentioned it so......mandrakes in 6th?

We all know that mandrakes in the 5th edi wasn't much to talk about......but how do they fare now?
Does the rules make more sense for them now?

Nothing seems to have made them better, infiltrate is the same and as cover is mostly 5+ now they die easier in cover. Unless their CC weapon is made a good AP (unlikely) they are actually slightly worse. Also random charges dont really help.

That is just sad. With such wonderous models it is not okay

On an other note, how will hellions and beastmasters change? Will they get better or will they just stay down?

well, with pinning (if it gets boosted), stealth and move through cover mandrakes should be able to charge infantry firing lines without fearing the snap fire. But offensively they don't get much...

well, I don't think that his blade/s will become AP3, the same as agonisers. In character's options PWs cost 5 points, agonisers 20. The cost already includes de AP2 probably.

Why not ? they already have all their special rules, demi Klaives are what they are, and what they are is power weapons, which we know for a certainty are AP3 , it's not like GW have a good track record of making phoenix lords any good ( they nut speesch mareeens)

I think the DE book was written for 4th updated a bit for the 5th release and is going to be utter crap in 6th , the changes have nerfed the already overpriced agonisers, lances have seen no actual improvement to justify their stupid pricings , the void bomb is still insultingly pitiful and our characters we may as wel not bother with as they can't fight anything with a 2+ save....

yeah 2 flyers with 5th in mind.. eldars and orks are 5th, DE is 6th, totally. Void bomb now does full strenght hits against vehicles ALWAYS! agonisers, huskblades, lelith, and sliscus and kerand. at 5-6s and 6s to wound most probably will be AP2 at least.

yes two flyers with 5th in mind, watch the designer interviews, it made no sense for DE to have loads of tank like heavy support , flyers simply make sense , they come with rules to plug them into fifth , sure they probably had an idea that they wanted flyers in the next edition at that stage, like I said , a book they first wrote in/ for fourth and jiggled later to fit into fifth with 6th in mind. currently it mkes little sense as a 6th edition but loads as a 4th edition book with 5th edition trimmings dex ...

or 60 point raiders as far as I can tell are hot candidate for worst/most overpriced transport in the game now .

jink save, ability to shoot from them (repeating to hit those snap fire shots when moving 12"),...

Eh this makes no sense , please explain ? snap fire is a bad jioke , woo sixes to hit ..... everyone else has TL guns or more shots or are cheaper or both , raider = crap in sixth.

So a year and a half after the codex release we will have to resort to using Farseers to bolster our army like eldar players have been doing just to survive, it fething sucks ......

here's someone elses thoughts "Anyway as pointed out haywires will be good, BUT:
-DE light skimmers will be total rubbish.
-If the 6" limit on vehicle movement to disembark is true even for fast/skimmers then wyches will be quite literally useless. (They would have been good with nades since wrecking vehicles wouldn't explode them, and they would be able to hit far more often).
you can move 6" after disembarking... with fast skimmer you'll be able to move more in the shooting phase, but your embarked troops will be +12" from the initial place, and still able to charge up to 12"

so now we dont go as far and charging is unreliable ? Ill pass

-The FNP nerf means a Haemonculus isn't worth the points for a wyche squad.or wyches get better against elite combat units (except for S6 ones ofc)

not convinced, never used wyches on elite squads particularly in the first place, those get shot , and the ap3 crap that is the new improved elevnty billion point agoniser ? ......

-Lances (and blasters) are still overpriced since they don't seem to be getting any new benefit.

hull points and +1 in the chart (+2 to heat lances) means vehicles will be OUT!! soon. But HW blasters are now a good option too

yeah so we need more lances than ever before to protect ourselves as we cant reliably stun lock things, +1 on the chart = EXACTLY the same as 5th , you got bettter at consistently rolling 5's on demand overnight ? and HW blasters are rendered a joke by the Necrons 4 shot version, I used to have them for their stun locking ability , not sure if you are just better of with cheap lances on the scourges now .... vehicles wont be out , no way , troop survivability took a dive also , unless TEQ .....

If you can move 12" and shoot normally as passengers in OT vehicles it will be something but since you'll be dying so fast anyway...

passengers will be able to shoot everything (even Dark Lances), and now they're inside a transport with a jink save, and probably nightshields (these are good now why ?). Also, our survivability depends on how fast we kill our threats, which will be easier now (dunno about you but to me a 3+ save on the majority of my opponents is just as hard to get rid of, sure anyone else without it took a hit .... but they were no an issue anyway ? so of no real benefit at all). All changes that diminish our enemies defences or boost our offensive capabilities makes us stronger than the rest. Charge a Land raider with your wyches. (they wont reeeeach !) well, reliably SRSLY forget about DE and CC , we are strictly a shooting army nowYou hit at 3+ if he moved any distance, then four glancing hits at 2+ and the LR is out. Who cries for our Raiders? for the same points we get 3 and they'll get a jink save (for petes sake its just a 5+ we had it anyway , everyone else now gets it so its not that great really...)and 3 dark lances, they are able to transport 30 minis. If raiders get only 2 HP then its 6 for the same price. If they get 3 (like rhinos), then it's 9!!!!

Honestly with the changes it's seeming more and more like a game just for marines and guard.
2+ saves are becoming insanely good, bolters are getting better, ATSKNF is still huge and shooting becomes more deadly to lightly armoured infantry, light vehicles are good but only if they are really cheap.

yeah, AP3 PW means TEQs are insane, and TEQs with FnP are Jedi breeded with level 4 Supersayans. Unless Incubi get AP2, I'll feed them lances, blasters or poisonDakka to death. Or my 30 wyches with shardnets. Look at the good side, we will see less TH/SS termies, due to 2+ alone being awesome.

no you wont, because lots of people will start buying more ap2 guns and cover is useless now, but that three up invuln just got a whole lot nicer ..... (cause they needed a boost ...)

Are we really considering this a bonus to xenos players? We won't be seeing xenos getting battle brother imperial allies, but the bets are on that most imperial forces will be battle brothers with each other."
let's ally with Chaos Space Marines Terminators. Always. Mmmhahahhaha!!!

I hope we wil see less mech guard, and more footguard thanks to snap fire.. .BUT hydras will become more usual... that's when our flickerfields are of use

you will see more guard than ever , probably as allies, hydras (will blot out the sun) are even better than ever and who would not want guard heavy support now with the new blast rules ? there are simply too many reasons to take guard as an allied force not to ....

Let's wait to actually get in some games in sixth before we get too riled up over how "ZOMG GW BROKE MY ARMY BAWWWW!!!!1111!!".

The game mechanics have been substantially changed, this is a much bigger jump than 4th to 5th edition. While it does kinda sound like Terminators might have become invincible, GW could've nerfed Storm Shields too. (I would agree a 3++ and a 2+ against almost every weapon in the game with a FnP on top is ridiculous) There's just way too many changes to the basic game mechanics and mission objectives to really know yet. Especially the scoring system, which has more special rules than a Warmachine optional mission. If transports get nerfed, it just means everyone will be running foot infantry more and DE will still be gunboating things. (You weren't really gonna charge anything with those warriors, now were you?)

Keep in mind that the very basics of war games aren't gonna change, highly mobile units are tactically useful but fragile, unstoppable tank units are slow and easily flanked, glass cannons are glass cannons, etc. Remember that all armies will be effected more or less equally by the new changes. (Curious to see if GW is attempting to rig the mission objectives themselves so anyone can win, seems like it might be the only effective way to keep things balanced)

Arrex wrote:

Remember that all armies will be effected more or less equally by the new changes.

This is, of course, not true. Example: if you have an army that is primarily focused on assault (say: Tyranids) versus an army that is primarily focused on shooting (say: Imperial Guard) and you introduce more shooting (say: defensive fire) versus less assault (say: random charge length), then Tyranids will suffer more than Imperial Guard.

Warhammer 40,000 - Allied Detachments & Flyers

Stumbled on to this.

lululu_42 wrote:

Warhammer 40,000 - Allied Detachments & Flyers

Stumbled on to this.

Tells us at most that allies is a concept and flyers go zoooom.....