Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***

aurynn wrote:

Heh. I never said they are perfect solution. I argue that they are not useless... :-)

You can argue that for any unit as even mandrakes have a use. Fact of the matter is a syren with a venom blade generates more attacks for cheaper with a higher initiative, especially if they see a point drop. Kabalites can wound a Master of Ceremonies from twice the distance away, a venom from triple the distance. When a unit is outperformed by other cheaper units that makes them useless. Unless you just want to use them for fluff. In that regard if incubi receive a point drop and harlequins do not harlequins will essentially become useless, most people don't use them now anyway.

That aside the court rules are awesome if true. Medusae are more expensive sure, but dropping X AP3 templates on any form of infantry is going to cause a bad day. Sslyth become a cheaper more reliable grot bomb. You lose FnP sure, but you gain fleet and assault 3 ranged attacks. And while the bland option is ur-guls they're still not terrible. For 135 points you could have 36 S5 attacks on the charge at initiative 5. This will also wreck a lot of things.

In other words this is good news, I'll happily accept one useless unit and three useful ones in place of four useless units like we had in 5th and 6th.

If they are not way better than ranged solutions, they are not needed and thus "useless".

If you have 3 units doing exactly the same job you take the decent ones and not the "theoretically they could do it too" units.
Thats why you get haywire wyches/Blasterborn to deal with tanks and dont leave it to Scourges although theoretically they can do the same job.

I hope scourge don't suck btw.

If the court really does get changed, my preferred layout at first thought would be 3 Sslyth, two llhamaeans and the archon (maybe with an agoniser?) with a haemonculus (power axe?) in a raider. This would work even with Sslyth being bulky (I actually thought they already were in the 5th edition codex but looks like I was wrong there). Maybe add in a medusae to replace the haemmie or a llhamaean.
The group would be deadly in assault and have pretty beastly ranged firepower as well, with 14 splinter shots. Only 3 of them would be wounding on +2 though. If the llhamaeans made any person in the unit (not just herself and the archon) have upgraded poison, that combo could be pretty darn good with the sslyth (and make a haemonculus happy with his pistol as well).

There could also be some use in a massive unit of sslyth on foot, too. Only a 24" threat-bubble in ranged fire but very tough to deal with and provides a good meatshield for the archon.

EDIT: a single sslyth in CC would also be 5 attacks on the charge at S5... what do they need the archon for?

If that Succubus rumour is true... at-initiative AP2 weapons are really rare now (ironic, given that comparatively recently all power weapons did that), a S4 AP2 weapon on a model with frankly ludicrous initiative and attacks could be tasty.

Also, REALLY hoping that the Incubi keep their AP2. I'll keep using 'em anyway, but they're such a fun unit for just ripping through stuff.

You can take one syren per unit. And cant take the other bad boys from court for her. The point of the court is to serve as an extension of archons abilities. I have seen many ppl using cheap VenomBlade archons, lhamaean is like buying him extra 3 attacks and 1 wound (albeit unprotected) for 12 pts. Same goes for agoniarchon. Raider forces high on lances might benefit greatly too.

Ofc it depends on what your army needs but still think its far from useless. And just to clarify, I am not talking about comp environment. I dont see them getting to top nova or etc lists. But they can be a real nasty unit to face. Esp for Nids, Tau, Nurgle, etc.

The new Archon, courtesy of the official iBook preview:

I like the cape, and I like the legs as a bit, but I don't like it as a whole model.

Don't like the Archon. Looks more like one of the 80's style, 2-dimensional looking figures that GW used to create.

Why do you want to put Courts in Raiders? If our portals are indeed deepstrike w/o scatter, that's cheaper delivery system.

Arrive, either shoot or spread out from templates and blasts. Make sure that rest of army supports that invasion, and they can do some murder.

Iif Portal isn't the Relic, it's possible to run double Archons with Sslyths courts.

Quote :

Arrive, either shoot or spread out from templates and blasts.

And get blasted to bits. No Armor to speak of, T3.
Get a Raider, deepstrike, Jink -> profit

T5, mate. Not sure how much wounds Sslyth will have...

But killing 10-12 T5 W2 is not easy, especially if you're using Raiders to bring other elements of your invasion force - big guns will be busy.

Besides, Junk is not going to save 10/10/10 vehicle in the middle of enemy force. I'd rather take more bodies.

You say that but jink has saved me loads of times, i regularly go flat out with aethersails into the enemies lines with 3-4 raiders, their survivability is always under estimated.
if the rumours are true about nightshields giving plus one cover i cant wait!

Well, the key phrase is 3/4. It amazes me how ignorant people can be about the basic math. We're talking about a single Raider. Two at best, but i doubt it.

Besides, would you prefer having 4 or 12 sslyth in your opponent's deployment zone? I'd take 12 any day. (Or may be 10+2, they can get into close combat with some monstrous creatures, and that's where Archon can use some assistance).

Raider will be better with Medusae. Drop, flame from the board, laugh.

well i hold drop assault from salamanders in 2 turns loosing only 1 raider vs 6 melta, jink isnt bad its awsome for raiders and neccesary evil for venom/ravager

Count Adhemar wrote:

Don't like the Archon. Looks more like one of the 80's style, 2-dimensional looking figures that GW used to create.

Pretty much this. The flayed-skin cape works for the haemy, not so good with the crisp lines of the archon (very incongruous). And it's just too static, and a really unnatural static pose at that.

Dark Muses, have mercy on people's brains.

DE can survive any droppod assault without taking casualties. The problem is:

YOU'RE GONNA DROP IT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ENEMY ARMY.

The only use for the Raider will be target saturation - bring warriors, trueborn, wyches and other stuff in raiders. Some will survive.

But that single, special raider we can give up for granted. Because noone wants to lose their vital units to Archon's court.

Hijallo wrote:

Well, the key phrase is 3/4. It amazes me how ignorant people can be about the basic math. We're talking about a single Raider. Two at best, but i doubt it.

Besides, would you prefer having 4 or 12 sslyth in your opponent's deployment zone? I'd take 12 any day. (Or may be 10+2, they can get into close combat with some monstrous creatures, and that's where Archon can use some assistance).

Raider will be better with Medusae. Drop, flame from the board, laugh.

"Basic Math": your unit is (without Archon) at 300 Points. Add in the Archon with his "to go equip" and we are in the range of 450+
You know what also in this points range? EVERY SINGLE DEATHSTAR available. Multi Wounds, T5, 2+ Armor, 3++ invul, S 8 - 10 AP2 12" movement. Thats how basic math work.

True deathstars cost double that amount. They also rely on psychic powers.

Seer Council, for example, costs just 500 for 10 warlocks. Double Farseers is 200 more, Anaris is a must - add 40, so we've almost arrived at 750 pts. Baron used to be a thing, so, 850.

Sslyths are not a deathstar, they don't need external support. Grenade launcher, shadowfield and portal will put Archon in ~120'ish, so ye, he can get quite expensive assuming we want to give 'im fancy weapons.

You live in the 6th edition where Seerstar was a thing. Try Bikestar, Centurion Star or Wolfstar. All around 500 Points.
Ar even better... Drop your archon with allied Wraithguard. Nearly the same points, WAY more effect, WAY better survivability.

That'll be Eldar army with DE allies, not other way around. Centurion star was a thing in 6 ED already, well, those are only good as long as they have Invisibility up.

And Sslyth will bash any of those (bar Wolfstar) if they manage to fail Invisibility. For those who do not fail, there are Reavers.

And they "bash" them with what? with their tremendous AP- attacks against a 2+ save?

Exactly with that. How do Wyches beat Terminators? Those are same cases, just ramped up.

Quote :

How do Wyches beat Terminators?

Not at all? A Wych needs around 36 attacks to make ONE terminator fail his safe.

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Quote :

How do Wyches beat Terminators?

Not at all? A Wych needs around 36 attacks to make ONE terminator fail his safe.

The same way guardsmen do. They splatter themselves on their armor until one of them chokes to death on the blood.