Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***

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With Deep Strike for vehicles free, you can now deploy the hammer where you want it.

DE have had the DS on all vehicles options since 5th ed and it didn't at any point help them compete.

It has always been a gimmick and nothing has changed.

I understand that when you buy the new codex, a GW developer will personally come to your apartment and kick your cat.

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With Deep Strike for vehicles free, you can now deploy the hammer where you want it.

You could do that before. Either with Sliscus or a 5 points upgrade. Yes it can be fun if you dont get tabled first round because you have so many points arriving in later turns. Best way to make it work is a Core Eldar army with serpents. So you wont get tabled. Hardly possible with pure DE.

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You can take Talos in squads to tank fire.

Why would anyone want to shoot them? They are slow, can be beaten up in melee by Marines and dont have a big kill potential (actually they are mathematicly worse than a dread, but cost way more points). For the same points you get a Wraithlord with better stats and better weapons. For the points of 2 of them you get a Wraithknight which is far superior and a real fire magnet with awesome movespeed.

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With the all new webway portal for that blasterborn to suddenly pop up we have some very good AT.

As already mentioned, they could have done that before for less points (you remember? Vehicles shock.) as I dont think you want to shock 5 blasterborn with archon in the middle of the enemy army.
Again Eldar rejoice. As a shocking Wraithguard is awesome.

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As for punch, the voidraven sounds like a punching machine with a str8 ap2 blast. And yes you can take FOUR!

For the mere price of 160 points, naked. Thats quite half your army thats forced to jink because there are bolters aimig at them.

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Is Vect really gone?

Yes, Vect is really gone (for now)

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Also you have to know we will get formations/detachments

Asking my source, will report if I know more.

w8 w8 w8 why you say a WL better than a Talos??? i tried several times with 2 Glaive lord and a fully kitted Talos and khm the talos killed way more than the 2 lord combined, and well marines wont beat them only lucky powerfists who survived the onslaught and than talos has FNP
as for webway  portals screw trueborns unless they get heatlances,
these rumors are not all good, but no 7th ed dexes had good rumors

egorey wrote:

With Deep Strike for vehicles free, you can now deploy the hammer where you want it.
You can take Talos in squads to tank fire.
With the all new webway portal for that blasterborn to suddenly pop up we have some very good AT.
As for punch, the voidraven sounds like a punching machine with a str8 ap2 blast. And yes you can take FOUR!

That is exactly, what I felt, but never managed to think of it clearly. Thanks to clear this up.
Except one thing: Voidravens have Str9 blast, like their lances, when I remember correctly.
What I heard, Mandrakes are promising now, so there could be other, new ways to fight.

egorey wrote:

I expect DE to be difficult to play - what has really changed?

If they weren't, they wouldn't be our army to play, weren't they?
But what has changed, were our way's of war. Well, we have all the time in the world to adapt.

WL got better shooty stuff. WL got higher T.
Talos on the other hand had 2 advantages in 5th. D6 attacks (and the higher one of 2D6 with flails) and lower point cost.
Now the Talos has 3 Attacks and Flails give shred. Naked talos is same cost as naked WL.
Also WL is a (C) which means he can challenge that damn powerfist sergant. Talos is not.
Last but no least you dont need powerfists for the Talos. He is T7. So he can be wounded by S4 AND more importantly Krak nades are a thing at S6.

egorey wrote:

I'm with EoE - if you don't want your DE you can PM me too. I love a bargain. I expect DE to be difficult to play - what has really changed?

40k is bleeding players faster than it can gain them (and for a reason).  This is a terrible attitude to have.

No one expects Dark Eldar to be easy to play, but the old codex was exceptionally well balanced. From that level of balance to Chaos Space Marines 4th ed is a bit jarring.

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From that level of balance to Chaos Space Marines 4th ed is a bit jarring.

Thats actually my best analogy. 4th ed CSM codex. At this time dropping all the special rules was also the thing. Later this aproach has changed, but ugly CSM codex with its obli-lash combo remained.

The worst part is that our uniqueness got just butchered. Every army has it's features and gimmicks. Orks got mob rule and they don't aim, making their snapshots only half as good as regular ones instead of being almost completely useless. IG got numbers and orders. Marines are Marines. Eldar still got a lot of special rules (was it really that hard to give battle focus to DEldar as well?) and best vehicles in the game.

After this dex, we will be the most bland army in existence. No "ours" rules, just plain rulebook stuff. You keep saying trash like "DE were always hard to play". Yes, exactly. This 'dex dumbs us down. Nightshields used to be a tool for deployment, allowing us to outrange all 48" and less guns. Right now they just grant us better survivability (statistically). Flicks were awesome - hey, prior to DA there were NO invulns for vehicles! And with all that Ignores Cover shooting they're invaluable... Too nice for filthy xenos to have probably. Reavers required cunning and timing, but could have achieved great results. Now, they're suicide assault unit. Portal was an unique mechanic - gone and replaced with some cheese for allied faction.
All our special characters with funny rules are gone. Noone of those who left looks to be useful. Urien may be, if he produces some army-wide buffs.

It's total dumbification of a codex. It's either becomes utterly unplayable, or due to point costs we'll be able to play like Orkz' retarded cousins - just speed up to the enemy's face and beat said face in close combat. That's what 3+ raiders and deepstriking without scatter is for. For Blood Angels style of play.

egorey wrote:

I don't know why you say clawed fiends are not good - they are decent bodyguard for a kitted out archon - they should destroy most units. It's like half the DE players have blinders on. Let's look at what is really neat now ...

With Deep Strike for vehicles free, you can now deploy the hammer where you want it.
You can take Talos in squads to tank fire.
With the all new webway portal for that blasterborn to suddenly pop up we have some very good AT.
As for punch, the voidraven sounds like a punching machine with a str8 ap2 blast. And yes you can take FOUR!

Also you have to know we will get formations/detachments, etc. Is Vect really gone? I'm with EoE - if you don't want your DE you can PM me too. I love a bargain. I expect DE to be difficult to play - what has really changed?

did you just read my comments on faeit212?

http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2014/09/dark-eldar-warlord-traits-and-combat.html

Because its almost lifted word for word. Lol.

But DE is all about outside the box.

@Hijallo
There is absolutely NO fluffy explanation for DE getting Battle Focus. Eldar are extremely disciplined, they meditate before battles, they do have FOCUS. DE are band of drug-driven,sadistic killers who relish in wanton slaughter and you want them to focus?! Seriously? I really dont understand why would people even want this with DE. The discipline of Eldar is also the reason why they have so many special rules. Eldar are spec-ops (with the exception of guardians maybe but even their discipline is far beyond any DE), we are just band of serial murderers.

Their vehicles cost 130+ in standard weapon loadout - thats almost four times the cost of rhino and little more than half of LR... shouldnt they be really good? Do you want non-assault AV12 vehicles with no firing points for 130 pts for DE? I dont!

And as for your raging about us being more assault oriented army - ahem... Kabalites/Trueborn will still be shooty, Ravagers will still be shooty, Scourges will still be shooty... but all the rest of our army is assault based or combo. Most of the dex is assault based, we relish in carving our enemies to bits and shreds! We even hide from shooting in CC! So where did that remark even come from?

As for numbers. According to fluff CWE use DE when they need bodies. DE dont bother with protection as they get remade by Haemonculi. They do tend to attack in swarms, so I wholeheartedly do support the greater numbers if thats the case of the new dex.

You haven't played a single game with the new DE, you dont know half the dex and already they are dumb, unplayable and I dont know what. Noone forces you to play DE... Gods I hate QQing!

aurynn wrote:

Noone forces you to play DE... Gods I hate QQing!

So you QQ about QQing? How quaint.

There are legitimate gripes and complaints about the state of the codex should these rumors prove to be true. Unless you have some positive light to add then you might as well be hopping on the negativity train with the rest of us.

How about this instead? Come up with some positive points about what we know so far and I will try to be less nihilistic?

If you take the rumors as true, and if they turn out to be true, I think a certain level of QQing is warranted. At least if you play Dark Eldar on any competitive level. From what I see it looks like they took everything good in the codex and either removed it or nerfed it.

Huskblade AP3? Great my archon can no longer mesh well with incubi.

Wyches lose haywire, venom blades, and their special weapons are nerfed. They no longer have a purpose on the battlefield.

Nightshields give stealth. Flickerfields only on venoms. Not only is it somewhat wasted if it's nightfighting, but I used to enjoy having a 5++ on my flyers. I didn't need to evade and thus didn't need to take snap shots.

Shadow Field point increase. Really? This was necessary? If it still fails on a 1 then well... sigh.

Reavers in close combat? No.

These changes just aren't good. and it takes away variety. Here's every new DEldar army list.

1xHaemonculus

6xKabalite warriors with splinter cannon and splinter wracks on raider with dark lance

3xblasterborn on venoms

3xravagers

Fast attack? 3x razorwings I guess, since everything else sucks. At least you might cause a hullpoint on a flyer.

There is no reason to take any units that are not these. (Rumors withstanding)

I love that attitude. Unfortunately, this is a reason why GW continues to write Xtremely crap rules. Because people like YOU (points a finger) will swallow any crap and find an explanation why they're eating aforementioned crap.

Everything we know is a dumbification of rules. Will there be power lists? Of course! Didn't you forget that all dedicated transports can be taken as FA choice now? didn't you forget that DE got double FA slots? Here we go, 6 venoms for 420! Hoor-ray! And put your troops into the Raiders with nightshields, take some Ravs for anti-tank and, with inevitable point drops across the board, that's probably enough to just overwhelm any opponent with sheer firepower and bodies.

But that's bland as frak. Only army more boring than proposed one i can think about is Tau Gunline where you basically play 1 phase out of 4.

Honestly, if these rumours are true, I think it will be the end of my DE army.

aurynn wrote:

@Hijallo
There is absolutely NO fluffy explanation for DE getting Battle Focus. Eldar are extremely disciplined, they meditate before battles, they do have FOCUS. DE are band of drug-driven,sadistic killers who relish in wanton slaughter and you want them to focus?! Seriously? I really dont understand why would people even want this with DE. The discipline of Eldar is also the reason why they have so many special rules. Eldar are spec-ops (with the exception of guardians maybe but even their discipline is far beyond any DE), we are just band of serial murderers.

People want DE to have Battle Focus because they're supposed to be fast. I think you're reading far too much into the word 'Focus'.

Would it make you feel better if they kept the rule the same but changed it to 'Speedy Pirates'?

aurynn wrote:

@HijalloTheir vehicles cost 130+ in standard weapon loadout - thats almost four times the cost of rhino and little more than half of LR... shouldnt they be really good? Do you want non-assault AV12 vehicles with no firing points for 130 pts for DE? I dont!

Wave Serpents should be decent - not 'really good', because 'really good' just translates to 'overpowered'. An AV12 skimmer transport does not need to put out more firepower than most dedicated tanks. Nor does it need to have a shield that converts penetrating hits to glances on a 2+, and can be fired as a S7 Assault d6 weapon that ignores cover.

Also, being closed-topped hardly matters when, as above, the vehicle puts out a ludicrous amount of firepower without the passengers ever needing to lift a finger. And, with DE assault units apparently being nerfed even more (if the rumours are true), closed-topped could well be more valuable than the ability to assault out of the transport.

To clarify, I don't want DE skimmers to turn into wave-serpents, if only because wave serpents are broken and it would diminish the uniqueness of the army even more (if you can believe that). However, from a pure power-level perspective, I can certainly see why many people would happily trade our paper mache death-traps for Wave Serpents.

aurynn wrote:

@Hijallo
And as for your raging about us being more assault oriented army - ahem... Kabalites/Trueborn will still be shooty, Ravagers will still be shooty, Scourges will still be shooty... but all the rest of our army is assault based or combo. Most of the dex is assault based, we relish in carving our enemies to bits and shreds! We even hide from shooting in CC! So where did that remark even come from?

The fact that our assault units are crap?

And, from the rumours, it seems like they're only going to get worse.

aurynn wrote:

You haven't played a single game with the new DE, you dont know half the dex and already they are dumb, unplayable and I dont know what. Noone forces you to play DE... Gods I hate QQing!

No one forces you to read these threads if they annoy you.

You're right, we haven't seen the new codex, but we have several rumours to discuss. We don't know whether some or all of them are false, but we can still discuss what they mean for the new book if they are true. And, it's not like there have been many times when GW has produced a book that defied the rumours by being really good. So, I think some cynicism at this point is pretty reasonable. That way, we'll be less disappointed if we're right, and if we're wrong then we'll get a good book.

Hijallo wrote:

I love that attitude. Unfortunately, this is a reason why GW continues to write Xtremely crap rules. Because people like YOU (points a finger) will swallow any crap and find an explanation why they're eating aforementioned crap.

Everything we know is a dumbification of rules. Will there be power lists? Of course! Didn't you forget that all dedicated transports can be taken as FA choice now? didn't you forget that DE got double FA slots? Here we go, 6 venoms for 420! Hoor-ray! And put your troops into the Raiders with nightshields, take some Ravs for anti-tank and, with inevitable point drops across the board, that's probably enough to just overwhelm any opponent with sheer firepower and bodies.

But that's bland as frak. Only army more boring than proposed one i can think about is Tau Gunline where you basically play 1 phase out of 4.

I was not aware I was the reason GW was writing crap rules. My god, what have I done... all I wanted was options, can everyone forgive me for breaking the game? I never intended for this to happen.

Without wishing to backseat-mod, can we try and tone it down a bit? As it stands, things are heating up and I think we're in danger of losing track of the thread.

Personally, I'm just going to wait and see. We'll have the book in under a week, and likely more concrete info in a few days once early copies get delivered (always happens). Until then, lets try and focus on the positives where we can find them, yes?

Well, since 4chan haven't seen any scans posted yet, it's quite possible that those rumours are just epic trolling conspiracy. But it looks like GW cannot allow DE to be good. 6E appeared to be made especially to crap upon Dark Eldar, with FnP and opentopped transport changes. 7E didn't really improve anything besides Junk which, given how easily shooty shooty units can grab ignore cover, isn't that much of a lifesaver on a 10/10/10 HP3 vehicle without invulns. So, i'm inclined to believe those rumours are true.

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Expletive Deleted wrote:

I was not aware I was the reason GW was writing crap rules. My god, what have I done... all I wanted was options, can everyone forgive me for breaking the game? I never intended for this to happen.

Options? Are you sure that's what we get in case everything gets nerfed? Because, you know, people will keep using Venoms and Kabalite Gunboats - those are hard to actually nerf hardly without breaking the very core of DE. Options we got now - such as WWP, Beaststars, Reavers, etc - will be rendered unplayable.

Stop supporting every bad decision made by GW. They still make some good ones, so you will have that little opportunity to praise.

Please do not double post. There is an edit button for a reason - Baron T

Hijallo wrote:

Expletive Deleted wrote:

I was not aware I was the reason GW was writing crap rules. My god, what have I done... all I wanted was options, can everyone forgive me for breaking the game? I never intended for this to happen.

Options? Are you sure that's what we get in case everything gets nerfed? Because, you know, people will keep using Venoms and Kabalite Gunboats - those are hard to actually nerf hardly without breaking the very core of DE. Options we got  now - such as WWP, Beaststars, Reavers, etc - will be rendered unplayable.

Stop supporting every bad decision made by GW. They still make some good ones, so you will have that little opportunity to praise.

I think you misunderstand me. I definitely do not support GW's bad decisions. My army had some variety in it, I actually used wyches and reavers, wyches were my anti-tank, and reavers anti-hoard, because in my mind they were equal to or better at the job than other units. Those options are gone.

If you want me to focus on the positives I only have two items.

Taloi can be taken in 3 and start with feel no pain. I don't know how good their offense is but this is definitely a positive thing.

No restriction on the court. While I'm seriously debating the use of an archon at this point, this opens up a couple of strategies.

Oh, and splinter racks now affect splinter cannons. Hoorah, so three things. I think that will make gunboats better than venoms. Twin-linked splinter cannons? Gimme gimme... even if they are salvo weapons now... sigh... crap! Need to stay positive!

Look on the positive side, now DE and Tyranid players can understand each other on a level no other armies can match heheh :p

So how many venoms can a DE allied detachment bring? 2 troops and 1 FA? Or maybe it would be better going DE main to get six FA slots then bring over 6 Craftworld infantry to ride in 'em. I'm a fan of corsair Eldar y'see and venoms+craftworlders fit that image nicely. So look on the positive side, CWE got a nice "Codex: open topped vehicles!" supplement.

Imagine if Reavers kept their flyby attacks though, would've loved to see Mushkilla's batrep with 6 of those. That's what reaaaaally gets my goat, taking away one of the most stylish, iconic maneuvers the Dark Eldar had for no good reason.

*If you want a splinter gunboat, wouldn't a single empty FA venom still be better in terms of speed, range (salvo nerfs the infantry version), cost?

well nids still got the flying circus soo i dont see why they are so weak they even have 3 types of birdies , but back to us it seems gw killed off like 80-90% of our current working stuff cus meh we are not SM we wont anyways bring profit, but i miss our "murderous prowes" as in WHFB

urden93 wrote:

well nids still got the flying circus soo i dont see why they are so weak they even have 3 zipes of birdies

Running off topic I know, haven't played 7th, but didn't the changes to grounding tests make flying creatures take a huge hit?

yes they got better... they dont get grounded on hits, they need to get wounded and 1/ phase not 1/unit if i remember well, tho they cant assault but you dont want to with 2 TL brainleech and an electrshock flamer or the shred+rend one

Well the good news if the rumours are true is that there is plenty of opportunity to try out different units in an attempt to undo the blandness and try to claw some fun back into the game.

The other good news is that my friendships with my frequent opponents is only going to get better as they will no longer fear or loath having to fight dark eldar.

On a serious note. I wont use Eldar in a detachment. I will continue to not. Even in competitive games. I've always thought an army should be fine by itself and allies should be a gimmick. Yes it was hard but the victories were only made sweeter. We have a great community here, and some great minds. Give it a month and people will be getting to grips with how to make the most out of a poor deal.

If these rumours are all true, and Dark Eldar are a bland Dog-crap sandwich of an army then its up to us to find thicker bread and I think we will.

cant wait the weekends for dex and there is a competiton in town with ~5000Huf 1st prize (around 17 euro) so cheesy serpent spam for new DE , and then next with DE failings