Apparently... we're next.

Honestly if the review of "it's very solid" and "will be lots of fun" came from anyone outside of this forum I would agree with all the pessimism. However, what we have is someone who has been on the forum, for what I'm gonna guess is a long time, has seen what the community wants, plays the army regularly,
(Frontline has proven themselves over and over to be imperium/chaos fanboys they could change the name of the podcast to "Chaotic Imperial Soup" and it would work even if one of them does play DE on a "I feel like not power armour today" basis) has built trust within the community, and goes into the play testing with that ... I don't see them trying to build up hype within the community for only a small very select bit of the codex and and risk more than likely losing the support of the entire forum, just because GW says "No, you aren't allowed to say anything bad or else you lose our "support"" ... I feel if that were the case the review would have been " it's ok" plus it's reasonable to think that everything won't be perfect :/ hell I'm sure every codex (tyranids included) has players saying this or that unit is unplayable or uncompetitive.

I doubt we'll get any new artwork. We'll be happy if we have 1 or 2 new stories about what happenned during and after the dysjunction.

No new units,
no new equipment,
no customable HQ.


6 factions rules (2 kabal, 2 wych cults, 2 coven)
6-8 stratagems
around 4 relics (the kiss, the pannacea, nightmare doll, maybe vexator mask)

some rule changes (this is where I have hopes, especially with wyches)
point reductions.


tadaaaaa. "Codex drukhari". Next, the Tau T'au

Quote :

I don´t remember precisely but I think ESE never said we had a great dex. I think he said we had a solid dex. And I agree with skulnbonz I think ESE should carry some weight.
Which means I am reasonably sure our dex is no where near as bad as the grey knights, but since he was also not shouting we are going to be so happy, it probably is also not as good as the tyranids.

That's probably the most realistic scenario. Our Dex will be more akin to Blood Angel's. Decent, but mostly forgettable

I don't think we should be all too sad if the codex lack the Archon on Skyboard or the Winged Heamie since GW's going for only rules for existing models. The thing is, with this being the last edition of 40k I think that once everyone got their codex, later this year perhaps (?), GW can go on and make the models we want and the rules for them.
Now ofc we're not gonna get the attention that the imperium and Chaos will, but once in a blue moon we'll might get that choice. A year's wait for a uppdate isn't much now is it. And GW have proven that they can produce alot of models in a short time frame with Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Dark Imperium it'll might be sooner rather than later (In DE waiting therms)

dumpeal wrote:

I doubt we'll get any new artwork. We'll be happy if we have 1 or 2 new stories about what happenned during and after the dysjunction.

No new units,
no new equipment,
no customable HQ.


6 factions rules (2 kabal, 2 wych cults, 2 coven)
6-8 stratagems
around 4 relics (the kiss, the pannacea, nightmare doll, maybe vexator mask)

some rule changes (this is where I have hopes, especially with wyches)
point reductions.


tadaaaaa. "Codex drukhari". Next, the Tau T'au

6-8 stratagems? Maybe if we were just getting a pamphlet instead of a codex. Even the 'mini-dexes' (Deathguard, Dark Angels, etc) still have 2-3 pages of stratagems like everyone else. There's setting your sights low, and there's setting your sights ridiculously low. 6-8 falls under the latter. On that note, even the smallest of the current dexes have more than 4 relics available.

Von Snabel wrote:

I don't think we should be all too sad if the codex lack the Archon on Skyboard or the Winged Heamie since GW's going for only rules for existing models.

Yeah, no.

The fact that your company policy is one of abject stupidity does not mean you don't lose points for continuing to follow said policy.

Von Snabel wrote:

The thing is, with this being the last edition of 40k I think that once everyone got their codex, later this year perhaps (?), GW can go on and make the models we want and the rules for them.

By 'the models we want', I take it you actually mean 'bigger space marines' and 'models for extra Imperium factions no one asked for'.

Von Snabel wrote:

Now ofc we're not gonna get the attention that the imperium and Chaos will, but once in a blue moon we'll might get that choice.

What choice?

Von Snabel wrote:

A year's wait for a uppdate isn't much now is it.

Given that we've been waiting for wings/skyboards/jetbikes since 5th, I'd call that a little more than a year.

Von Snabel wrote:

And GW have proven that they can produce alot of models in a short time frame with Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Dark Imperium it'll might be sooner rather than later (In DE waiting therms)

If they'd wanted to give us new models, they would have done so in preparation for our codex.

The fact that they haven't should tell you that we're not getting new models anytime soon.

Haemonculus wrote:

To be honest I really, really like being a bottom tier codex if that makes sense...

Over the last few years, I have heard heaps of people say that. Every time I do a little eyeroll. If you want to play a 'bad' army to make it more of a challenge or avoid playing the same as everyone else, you could always do the opposite of many tournament players and keep setting up new armies at the bottom of the power list!

I can understand having an attachment to an army and sticking with them even if they aren't strong. I have certainly done that.

Back in 3rd, I used to fairly regularly be at or near the top of tournament results. I'm not as much of a regular player at the moment, but I'm not seeing Drukhari being up there at all. I would love it if our Codex is strong enough that I feel like I could be back to dominating, if I put in the game time and keep up with what is current with other armies.

Recent edition cynicism makes me suspect that wont be practical, but there is another week or so of hope available, before reality sets in.

A random note of mild positivity - I hope the Parasite's Kiss from CA makes it into the finished codex. I know it's not particularly strong, but I still rather like it.

The Shredder wrote:

The fact that your company policy is one of abject stupidity does not mean you don't lose points for continuing to follow said policy.

I agree with that, but I doubt that the goal of the policy was to make people angry. Don't see that making as much money as trying to get happy customers. It's probably more to the a hold of the game after the change of direction. They got a crap foundation from the past board, it's just (hopefully) a segway whilest keeping it playable and, might I go so far as to say quite fun.

The Shredder wrote:

By 'the models we want', I take it you actually mean 'bigger space marines' and 'models for extra Imperium factions no one asked for'.

Gonna reitterate myself, if you really hate the Imperium you're making life hard on yourself in this hobby. Sort of playing WoW and only cheering for the Kobolts (NPSs). SM makes most money. And if they have to make 20 Sm models for 1 DE then so be it, cause DE would probably not really survive otherwise.

The Shredder wrote:

What choice?

Poorly written, my bad. Ment model choice. Like new HQ, troop, elite choice.

The Shredder wrote:

Given that we've been waiting for wings/skyboards/jetbikes since 5th, I'd call that a little more than a year.

But given that the company change direction with the new VD you can't really keep grudges like that. I'm not saying the deserve praise, but a little room to show what they're planing to do.

The Shredder wrote:

If they'd wanted to give us new models, they would have done so in preparation for our codex.

The fact that they haven't should tell you that we're not getting new models anytime soon.

I don't recall Nids or Eldar getting new models. And compared to them we have nice existing models. Compare kabalites to Aspect warriors of the Eldar, and say we got the short stick.

Sure Chaos and Imperium got new models, but they're the main protaganist/antaganist in the story atm. Not really suprising.

krayd wrote:

dumpeal wrote:

I doubt we'll get any new artwork. We'll be happy if we have 1 or 2 new stories about what happenned during and after the dysjunction.

No new units,
no new equipment,
no customable HQ.


6 factions rules (2 kabal, 2 wych cults, 2 coven)
6-8 stratagems
around 4 relics (the kiss, the pannacea, nightmare doll, maybe vexator mask)

some rule changes (this is where I have hopes, especially with wyches)
point reductions.


tadaaaaa. "Codex drukhari". Next, the Tau T'au

6-8 stratagems? Maybe if we were just getting a pamphlet instead of a codex. Even the 'mini-dexes' (Deathguard, Dark Angels, etc) still have 2-3 pages of stratagems like everyone else. There's setting your sights low, and there's setting your sights ridiculously low. 6-8 falls under the latter. On that note, even the smallest of the current dexes have more than 4 relics available.

I exagerated a little bit. But if you remove all the crap stratagems we'll have, I bet you 10 monopoly bucks we'll only have 6-8 usable stratagems.

now don't be too pessimistic. They gotta find some way to fill out some resemblance of a meaningful deck of cards for us to now don't they

Von Snabel wrote:

now don't be too pessimistic. They gotta find some way to fill out some resemblance of a meaningful deck of cards for us to now don't they

I'm pessimistic on the brand new things.
But I'm optimistic with the point adjustment and the units rules.

Most factions only have maybe 6-8 really good stratagems. The others are usually highly situational or focused on units not really used.

I think we should remember most of the codex released this edition have been good. crap, Eldar looked like trash in the I Dec and they took most of the top spots at LVO.

We are getting stratagems, relics, warlord traits for sure. GW has actually been fairly kind with points adjustments from the index to codex with most factions. All we really need are special weapons adjustments, better buffs from HQs, and covens need a fix (yes wyches do too but, I'm not golding my breath).

lament.config wrote:

Most factions only have maybe 6-8 really good stratagems. The others are usually highly situational or focused on units not really used.

I think we should remember most of the codex released this edition have been good. crap, Eldar looked like trash in the I Dec and they took most of the top spots at LVO.

Having a pool of situational stratagems along with 6-8 good general purpose ones is not bad at all. It's not like you have to pay anything for having more stratagems at your disposal. For example, it's not like I've ever actually used any of the anti-air missile stratagems, but I don't mind having them available in case I need them for something.

The Shredder wrote:

- This also means that most of our old Wargear won't be coming back, since a lot of it can't be represented on the models (conversions notwithstanding). But, hey, no one really liked Splinter Racks, right?
codex.

Splinter wracks are modeled on the raider and even come in the ravager kit. They might not look cool but there are racks that have splinter guns that hang on them

Totally right though, we aren't getting shir in the way of new stuff. Still, all it takes to make or break an army is good points and good stratagems. Eldar are good with alaitoc for sure but it's not their relics and warlord traits or their craftworld abilities that are rocking it, its their powers, stratagems and the cost of dark reapers and shining spears, and the utility of crazy cat lady. If we get good points and strats, we can be fine without new crap

To be fair i already find Webway Portal opening up for more options in the list i play, like 20 wyches DS in turn 3, so if i have 5-7 strategems like that... with some unit specific strategems i can build an army around... i will be pretty happy on the strategem part.
Wyches i find to be decent in a 20 man "blob" (roughly 200 points) being dsed in turn 3 (reroll charge, WS 2+, 3 attacks, 60 attacks at str 3), tho i would like them to either get an attack more or cost less, as the offence/defence value of the unit imo is a bit off.

So yea there is some units that needs a rework (pretty much all coven units i think?), massive point reduction(cult units), but as we are squishy as frak, i think most of our unit problems stems from unit delivery to be a threat, which stuff like webway portal helps with.

And while it would be fun to get new stuff, i would personally very much like more HQ options, especially a new Char for archons, I much rather have a flexible codex that actually makes it hard for me to fill in all the different units i want, rather than now where the army pretty much is Venoms, Raiders, RWJ, VR, Ravagers and scourges, and possible Trueborns and Incubi being our "flex" units and kab. war being fillers.
In a tournament environment different rules apply, and its all about min/max the possible strongest list with the soup faction you got, and while this is important as well, the majority of ppl don't play in extreme competitive environments.

Overall i dont think it is THAT hard to turn the kabal and wych cult aspects of the DE codex into pretty solid, as Kabal is pretty solid already, and wych cult needs point reductions and delivery "systems" be on pair with kabal. Coven needs a total rework imo, but with ESE loving Coven so much in 7th, im sure that one is at least fixed.
Rework the special weapons that just doesn't work (heat lances and shredders comes to mind) and stuff starts to look pretty good, if priced right.
Overall i have a hard time to see how GW can screw up the codex, even if it should have less "flavor" than what most ppl here would like.

Von Snabel wrote:

I agree with that, but I doubt that the goal of the policy was to make people angry.

Sorry but I couldn't give the least bit of a damn what the stated goal of the policy was. I only care about what it actually did, which was to completely cripple our options - both present and future.

Also, you realise that this policy hasn't been universally applied, right? Other armies were given index options for models with wings, bikes and such that didn't have models. Those weren't included in the codex, but they could still use the index ones.

We, on the other hand, have been given bugger-all in the index that didn't already have a model.

Why is it fine for every other sodding army to have index options without models, whilst we have to be the one army that gets bugger all in that department?

Von Snabel wrote:

They got a crap foundation from the past board, it's just (hopefully) a segway whilest keeping it playable and, might I go so far as to say quite fun.

We clearly have very different ideas as to what constitutes 'fun'.

Von Snabel wrote:

Gonna reitterate myself, if you really hate the Imperium you're making life hard on yourself in this hobby.

It's not about 'hating the Imperium', it's about the Imperium getting *everything*, whilst Xenos are left to starve. Imperium stuff already dominates 40k releases, is it really too much to ask that GW at least finish doing models/codices for their existing armies, before making entirely new Imperium factions and giving models/codices to them instead?

Von Snabel wrote:

But given that the company change direction with the new VD you can't really keep grudges like that.

Can and will.

Von Snabel wrote:

I'm not saying the deserve praise, but a little room to show what they're planing to do.

If they want some good will, then they can either reverse their stupid policy of 'no model, no rules' or else give us some bloody models.

Sorry but my goodwill is earned. They don't just get it for apparently 'not being old GW', whilst making the same stupid decisions that made me despise old GW in the first place.

Von Snabel wrote:

I don't recall Nids or Eldar getting new models.

As an idea, Eldar have 5 generic HQs and 11 special characters (not counting FW stuff). If you count the different movement types (which are given separate dataslates), they have 11 generic HQs.

Tyranids have 5 generic HQs and 4 special characters (two of them HQs).

We have 3 generic HQs with no movement options, and 3 special characters with no movement options. Bloody Tyranids have more special characters than we do.

I won't object to Eldar or Nids getting more models, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that we are currently more in need than either of them.

Since 5th, we've lost 1 generic character and 5 special characters. Is it really too much to ask that even one of those be re-done or replaced?

And bear in mind, I'm not even asking that GW make the models for them. It would be nice, but I'd settle for just having rules for them. I'm more than happy to convert my own.

Von Snabel wrote:

Sure Chaos and Imperium got new models, but they're the main protaganist/antaganist in the story atm. Not really suprising.

Again, I can accept GW not giving us new models. It's annoying, but fine, whatever.

What I don't accept is them then refusing to give us rules because of that. That is very much the mindset of old GW, which filed a stupid lawsuit, lost it, and then decided to take it out on its players.

Until 'new GW' sees fit to reverse that particular piece of stupidity, it gets no goodwill from me.

To be really pedantic, neither Trueborn nor Bloodbrides have models.

PFI wrote:

Splinter wracks are modeled on the raider and even come in the ravager kit. They might not look cool but there are racks that have splinter guns that hang on them

Are you sure about that? The only Splinter Rack models I've seen are ones people have made themselves.

PFI wrote:

Totally right though, we aren't getting shir in the way of new stuff. Still, all it takes to make or break an army is good points and good stratagems.

Perhaps, but I take no joy in being powerful if it comes at the expense of fun.

PFI wrote:

Eldar are good with alaitoc for sure but it's not their relics and warlord traits or their craftworld abilities that are rocking it, its their powers, stratagems and the cost of dark reapers and shining spears, and the utility of crazy cat lady. If we get good points and strats, we can be fine without new crap

This is the thing though, wargear and customisable HQs might not make an army powerful, but they sure as hell make it fun (for me, at least).

Even if it's powerful, I simply get no joy out of playing Captain Generic and his Monotony Brigade.

Completely agree, I really miss the option to customize characters, but with the recent trend GW has been taking I just don't see any chance that happening. At least relics will help a little bit, but there's usually only a couple good relics and you can only take one per character.

One thing I'll throw out there for vehicle upgrades, guard and eldar got a bunch of their vehicle upgrades back in their codex, not completely unreasonable to assume we might get some back as well. As to which ones we might get though, who knows.

This is a great opportunity for GW to claim they increased our vehicle options by 500% or 10 fold or whatever... because when you have 1 option, any increase is going to look large.

Came here to agree with just about everything The Shredder said. ...mission accomplished.

I've seen a lot I would like to comment on but I'm too far behind. One thing I saw, however, was a comment that Nids and CWE didn't get new models. They didn't need them. They have so much variability in their units that GW can mix & match and create some killer combinations among the large number of units they already have.

One of our biggest downfalls (I believe...) is going to be limited number of varied units. At this point - unless you're a damn Space Marine or Chaos Space Marine - it is slim picking on the new models. GW is NOT going to over-buff our current guys, nor would I want them to. But what that means is limited variability in game style. This, to my mind, is what makes Tyranids the poster child for great codexes. They have innumerable number of ways to build an army.

I am OK if we only have a few ways to build out a viable army...but our army better have some super complex depth then. Quite frankly, I don't think GW is willing or able to pull this off simply because we have never been a focal point for them.

I think we're getting new models.
At the very least, new characters.
8th relies on them too heavily, and their auras, for them to be left out of our dex altogether.


Plus the rumour engine has shown some pretty Eldary things over the past month or two.

What if we could disembark from a transport AFTER it moved ? That would give a pretty good advantage and would represent our ability to strike fast.

Bad-baden-baden wrote:

To be really pedantic, neither Trueborn nor Bloodbrides have models.

Look at GK: with one box you can make Strike squad (troop), Purifier squad (elite), Interceptor squad (fast attack) and Purgation squad (heavy).

Another one? Box of termi are used for Terminators, Paladins, Apothecary, Brotherhood Ancient, Paladin Ancient...

Yes, I'm a GK player and want to play DE so I'm not too mad if we don't have a specific box/models for Trueborn and Bloodbrides