Apparently... we're next.

JESUS!!! So much moaning from Shredder!!!

I can't think of a single moment he made a positive prediction or statement in this thread...and all for frak all as well because how on earth does he or anyone else really know what the codex will be like unless they have seen it and played with it.

I just don't understand taking a such a negative stance on a release you haven't even seen yet.

How many armies have got new models? Of course everyone wants new models because that tends to be what got us into the hobby in the first place. But wanting and needing are very different and frankly I think this is more a case of want over need.

I simply can't wait for the Codex and no matter what is in it, I will just be so happy the wait is over and that we can finally start to build lists from an official Codex.

I think the codex is going to be good. It will only help us. It will add to the games we are currently playing.

But it won't have everything...and sometimes leaving room for improvement is quite nice.

Well not being hyped is better than being hype, that way when its good, it'll make you that much happier

Squidmaster wrote:

I think we're getting new models.
At the very least, new characters.
8th relies on them too heavily, and their auras, for them to be left out of our dex altogether.


Plus the rumour engine has shown some pretty Eldary things over the past month or two.

I'm thinking along the path, as some one said (don't know who but credit to you, mate), that the Sybarite/Dracon might be picked out and that the Flag in the Kabalite box might become a char-indicator. Sort of like the Neurothrope-box got a char cause they really needed one. If they got one, it's not out the window that we'll get one.
But if we get a new model, well then Im gonna be happy I've been storing my hobby-budget for a while now.

Aside from HQ choices, I actually think we've got a solid amount of versatility and variation in our army list already. The only issue is that right now the vast majority of those choices simply aren't worth taking, and if the Codex sorts that out then it'll be worth waiting for even if it doesn't introduce new units.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

JESUS!!!  So much moaning from Shredder!!!

I'm not moaning, I'm merely being cynical about our upcoming codex.

Moaning is reserved for when it's actually released.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I can't think of a single moment he made a positive prediction or statement in this thread...

I wasn't aware that I was obliged to.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

and all for frak all as well because how on earth does he or anyone else really know what the codex will be like unless they have seen it and played with it.

And yet positivity from people who haven't seen or played with it is perfectly fine, apparently.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I just don't understand taking a such a negative stance on a release you haven't even seen yet.

Because last time I got hyped, DE got their 7th edition codex.

Since then I've taken the stance that pessimism is the best option. If GW disappoints, then at least I didn't get my hopes up. If they actually release a good codex, then I get a pleasant surprise.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

How many armies have got new models?  

How many of those armies have 3 generic HQ choices, without a single movement item between them?

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Of course everyone wants new models because that tends to be what got us into the hobby in the first place.  

No, I want new models because that's apparently the only way we're allowed new rules. Don't blame me for GW's terrible policy.

If GW want to give us a couple of pages of rules for stuff that doesn't have models (wings/skyboard/jetbike options for HQs etc.), I'd be more than happy with that.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I simply can't wait for the Codex and no matter what is in it, I will just be so happy the wait is over and that we can finally start to build lists from an official Codex.

"no matter what is in it"

I think that statement alone should tell you why you are hyped and I am not.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I think the codex is going to be good.  It will only help us.  It will add to the games we are currently playing.

I heard people express similar thoughts about the 7th edition codex.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

and sometimes leaving room for improvement is quite nice.

If you want me to be less cynical, perhaps you shouldn't be making excuses for this "good codex" before it's even been released?


Look, as I said in my first post, I'll freely admit that I could be dead wrong about this. Maybe it will be amazing. Maybe GW will suddenly spring some new models on us or reverse their terrible decision to carve off all our interesting wargear and HQ movement options. Maybe.

However, I've seen nothing yet that suggests any of that is going to happen. Quite the opposite, in fact. And even those apparently hypes for the book seem to be preparing themselves for a letdown in several aspects of it.

But I tell you what, I'll make this as fair as I can: you say that the codex is going to be good. Fine. Convince me. That's your challenge. Show me the new models, rule leaks or whatever that you think prove that the codex will be good (prior to it coming out, obviously).

amishprn86 wrote:

Well not being hyped is better than being hype, that way when its good, it'll make you that much happier

I think I would rather take the position of cautious optimist rather than depressive pessimist but each to their own.

This type of pre-release negativity is quite pointless IMO. Judge the Codex when it is released.

Shredder, if all we get is a points reduction on the same level as CWE then we will be better off...and I think we can all agree that we are very likely to see such a thing.

I feel it would be more logical to compare this upcoming codex to the current index and in that respect we are going to end up with a stronger army.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

Well not being hyped is better than being hype, that way when its good, it'll make you that much happier

I think I would rather take the position of cautious optimist rather than depressive pessimist but each to their own.

This type of pre-release negativity is quite pointless IMO.  Judge the Codex when it is released.

This.
well and I want to add, being positive before even if it is a let down afterwards usually means less bad feelings than when you start negative and it turns out negative. (Jeah I know it is super weird, it turns out we will be dissapointed when it is negative even when we expected it, and we will be happy when we were positive and it turns out to be positive. Since it was about grades and not a new codex, it did not have any data on parts being good and parts being bad.
I think the advantage of staying slightly optimistic is that when you get the codex in your hands you will look more at the positive things in the dex and if you start out negative you will look more at the negative things. This leads to a more positive acceptance of the codex when you start out positive even if objectively the codex of the positive and negative thinker are the same.

Teach yourself to be positive about the little things and the qualitiy of how you experience life is better than the person who has objectively a better life but is looking at all the things that are not good.

That does make sense Meaver...quite interesting actually. The point about looking for the negative or looking for the positive. Those that look for a positive and use it to win games might be happy. Those that focus on the negative might struggle to enjoy playing DE. Which is a big shame. We should all enjoy playing.

Perhaps those that still have hang ups with DE because of the 7th edition codex should let go of the past edition and join us all in cautious optimism with the darkcity ready to provide emotional support should we all feel let down with the resulting codex

Smile to the world and the world will smile to you?

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Shredder, if all we get is a points reduction on the same level as CWE then we will be better off...and I think we can all agree that we are very likely to see such a thing.

Have you considered that we may be looking for different things from the codex?

As I said before, I'm interested in more than just power. What I want is for us to recover some of the options and flavour we lost after 5th. I don't want DE to just be a 'functional but bland' army.

And the area I would most like to see improved is our HQ section. We have a pitiful selection with:
- No Mandrake HQ
- No Incubi HQ (or Glaive/Suit options for an Archon)
- No Scourge HQ (or Winged Archon)
- No 'lesser' HQs (Dracons, Haemonculi Apprentices or such)
- No 'greater' HQs (Archon Lord, Haemonculus Ancient or whatever)
- No Archon special character, for some bizarre reason.
- No movement options for *any* of our HQs. Not a single, sodding one.

Look, I could accept some, even most, of these. But having none of them - especially the lack of movement options - is just pathetic.

And to make matters worse, the pitiful selection of HQs we do get have dull-as-dishwater auras, no other interesting or flavourful abilities and a pitiful selection of crap wargear.

This is the area where, again and again, I hope for meaningful change.

And this is the area where, again and again, GW only manages to disappoint me further - usually by removing even more options.


Do you have *any* evidence that this area is going to improve in the codex? If the answer is 'no', then I am simply not going to be hyped.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I feel it would be more logical to compare this upcoming codex to the current index and in that respect we are going to end up with a stronger army.

If you mean we should only compare the codex to the index, then that seems intellectually dishonest to me. I'm happy to compare the codex to the index, but I also intend to compare it to when our codex was actually good. Put simply, when GW has set the bar so low Satan himself considers it a tripping hazard, I don't then give them points for managing to slightly exceed it.


Also, as above, it's not just about power. That's definitely an issue, but it's not the reason DE stopped being fun for me.

Do you have anything to suggest that the DE HQ section has improved in any meaningful way? Do you have a screenshot of a Wings option on the Archon dataslate? Maybe news of a new HQ (with or without model)? Anything to suggest our HQs won't be the same boring footsloggers I've come to despise?

Nope...just like 99% of the population I haven't seen the new codex so I have no evidence to suggest this codex will be designed to make you happy Shredder.

I think it will have been designed to make DE more competitive and more fun to play...but I appreciate you can't please everyone.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Nope...just like 99% of the population I haven't seen the new codex so I have no evidence to suggest this codex will be designed to make you happy Shredder.

I'd settle for it making me happy incidentally. Or even accidentally.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I think it will have been designed to make DE more competitive and more fun to play...but I appreciate you can't please everyone.

The underlined part would seem to be rather subjective, especially given your statement above.

'Yeah, I'm sure that this codex will be much more fun. Unless you like fun HQs, fun wargear, fun options, and/or flavourful rules. Then you'll probably be disappointed.'


I'm afraid you've yet to sell me on the wonders of the codex.

Without anyone here developing psychic powers or breaking an NDA, we have zero information about the exact contents of the forthcoming codex. But we can look at the other already released codexes in this edition to see if there's a trend, and overwhelmingly they've been fluffy, fun, and with a good amount of options and flexibility.

The only exceptions so far are, arguably, a relatively small faction (Grey Knights) and a relatively new faction (Ad Mech). We're neither and I don't see any reason why GW would single the Dark Eldar out to give us a crap codex.

I'm not trying to sell you on the wonders of the upcoming codex...my main point today has been that you have no clue what it contains so why be so very negative?

So far it seems as if you were not happy with 7th and so you predict you will not be happy with 8th.  Fair enough.

I do hope the codex makes you happy.  If bashing the codex before even seeing it makes you happy in the interim, then on reflection, who am I to try and take that away from you.

See @Shredder... that's where you go wrong in your rant... You know very well, you wont get ANY of those things... so by default the DE codex will be a failure... Deal with it...

Now that we got that out the way... How do you see the currenct index units be improved in the codex? Couse that's the models and units you got to work with...

I actually have to agree with the Shredder. I have trouble seeing how our codex can do anything but disappoint. Since 5th, every time GW has remembered that we exist they have never given, they have only taken, taken and taken some more. Unless there is a drastic change, our codex will be a disappointment. We need 5th back. Also, GW has shown that they do not actually know how our codex (or army in general) works, and that they do not really care about what happens to us.

One thing I thought would be good is extra attacks for Wyches when outnumbered. Because they are so acrobatic it stands to reason that the more targets there are the more hits they would get. I think making Wyches good at dealing with blobs would make them very useful for the DE.

A study on monkeys given economy found that monkeys (and people) are more upset if they expect More and got less instead of vice versa. So scientifically speaking shredder's stance is better.

That being said, I'm still cautiously optimistic because my level of excitement won't change the end product so I might as well be happy now.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I'm not trying to sell you on the wonders of the upcoming codex...my main point today has been that you have no clue what it contains so why be so very negative?

I already stated my reasons.

To quickly recap: no new models. That in and of itself wouldn't be an issue. Except that it also means no new HQs, no movement options for HQs, no new wargear for HQs, no new weapons for our troops etc.

Given that this was the thing that most infuriates me about DE and the thing I most wanted fixing, can you maybe see why this codex has not made me even remotely enthusiastic?

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

So far it seems as if you were not happy with 7th and so you predict you will not be happy with 8th.  Fair enough.

Partially. But it's also to do with the design philosophy of GW - i.e. no rules without models. Which led to them scraping most of the fun stuff in our codex, and, with no new models and no change in policy, there's no sign we'll get it back any time soon (or anything to replace it).

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I do hope the codex makes you happy.

That makes two of us.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

 If bashing the codex before even seeing it makes you happy in the interim, then on reflection, who am I to try and take that away from you.

Sadly, outside of the occasional snarky comment, I get no pleasure from bashing the codex before it's even been released.

All I've been doing (or trying to do) is explain why I just can't get aboard the hype train for this book.

Keast Kannegaard wrote:

See @Shredder... that's where you go wrong in your rant... You know very well, you wont get ANY of those things... so by default the DE codex will be a failure... Deal with it...  

So, to summarise, I'm wrong to be pessimistic about the DE codex because it "will be a failure".

Perhaps at this point you should be wondering why your hype train's tickets were so cheap. And were one-way.

i agree with the Shredder - our HQ options getting worse with every edition.
But sadly, i don`t think we will improve there.

For now i`m just hoping for slight points reduction, no more, no less.

Count, as a mod can you supercede ESE's NDA and let him just tell us? Lol

The Red King wrote:

Count, as a mod can you supercede ESE's NDA and let him just tell us? Lol

Don't you think I've tried? When that didn't work I threatened to release the pictures of him doing {CENSORED} to a {CENSORED} with a {CENSORED}. Still nothing. I even kidnapped his My Little Pony collection and he maintained his stony silence. GW's grip on him is absolute I tell you!

Count Adhemar wrote:

The Red King wrote:

Count, as a mod can you supercede ESE's NDA and let him just tell us? Lol

Don't you think I've tried? When that didn't work I threatened to release the pictures of him doing {CENSORED} to a {CENSORED} with a {CENSORED}. Still nothing. I even kidnapped his My Little Pony collection and he maintained his stony silence. GW's grip on him is absolute I tell you!

I REGRET NOTHING!!!