Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising

I'm not arguing the raider is the definitive end all vehicle of the game.
What I'm saying to all the people complaining that in the fluff we should be "blistering fast" while in the crunch we are not, is that that's plain false.
Are raiders efficient, durable, versatile? Definitely not. Are they as fast as the fluff says, yes and then some.

They can totally be circled and all the passengers die and all that. Very true. But I guess that's not exactly how I play mine, or I mitigate that, or sacrifice them exactly that way. All the things that make two of them kinda as strong as one Wave serpent. Kinda. But totally different.
And, though I thought it was getting way too meta to get into, I'm one of the ten people on the planet that run my main Kab battalion as Obsidian Rose. So I get even further distance from them, including the splinters for rapid fire. All my Raiders form a line (often sideways like a real wall) with Ravagers sitting in the back surrounding an Archon (reroll buff) with 42" Dissie or Dark Lance guns.

I'll still keep reiterating: I think the Wave Serpents are seriously the best transport in the game and I run them very much like a tank and they're super good that way, too. They're defensive bricks. Raiders are the opposite. And I like it that way. My local opponents would all very much prefer I play Craftworld rather than DE, btw. And they lovingly let me know that my Kabal list had to take a small shelf break. Raiders and Ravagers everywhere is pretty rough.

You can basically get 2 raiders for the same cost as a wave serpent correct?

So yeah the serpent is going to be better than a raider. But you can have about 2 raiders for aprox the same cost. So 20 wounds, 4+ 5++ and open topped. Plus you can go two vehicles instead of one. Seems good to me. Also I dont feel the two should really be compared. They are transports yes, but they function differently within their respective armies.
And you can use a strat to deep strike a bunch of vehicles for a reasionable CP cost.

I prefer the cheaper more affordable transports as opposed to the ones that cost as much as many battle tanks in some armies.

I'm just annoyed that the eldar vehicles have so many goodies and tricks, for a higher preice i know, than we have, while also being nealry as fast as we are? wouldnt you pay 10 pts more for a raider if you can transport an archon/ succubus with a maxed out squad? nearly every army has a vehicle that allows that, wave serpents, falcons, razorbacks, impulsors, repulsor executioner, devilfish can hold a squad plus a character. the one faction euqally screwed as us are necrons with the ghost arks: profile of an open topped vehicle without the open topped rule and a transport capacity of ten, with the only unit being able to be carried around having a min size of 10.
Then theres the wave serpent, it gets all the benefits and, apart from the price which is very adequat, has no drawbacks. Hell it even has an odd number of wounds so D2 weapons are less efective and 13 wounds cant be one shotted by 2 D D6 weapons.
The fliers are 12" slower but have more wounds and a better save AND can pivot twice!!
They have a psyker flier, psyker bikes, HQs on bikes, cheap troops and sturdy troops and they dont have to split everything into a different detachment because "Oh no, theres a wraith unit next to the guardian defenders, now they forget how to craftworld".
There are so many qualitiy of life entries in the codex we (and others, except vanilla marines) can only dream of

so no my rant is over and we can go back to the psychic awakening where we get all dumped into a single faction /s

AzraeI wrote:

I'm just annoyed that the eldar vehicles have so many goodies and tricks, for a higher preice i know, than we have, while also being nealry as fast as we are? wouldnt you pay 10 pts more for a raider if you can transport an archon/ succubus with a maxed out squad? nearly every army has a vehicle that allows that, wave serpents, falcons, razorbacks, impulsors, repulsor executioner, devilfish can hold a squad plus a character. the one faction euqally screwed as us are necrons with the ghost arks: profile of an open topped vehicle without the open topped rule and a transport capacity of ten, with the only unit being able to be carried around having a min size of 10.
Then theres the wave serpent, it gets all the benefits and, apart from the price which is very adequat, has no drawbacks. Hell it even has an odd number of wounds so D2 weapons are less efective and 13 wounds cant be one shotted by 2 D D6 weapons.
The fliers are 12" slower but have more wounds and a better save AND can pivot twice!!
They have a psyker flier, psyker bikes, HQs on bikes, cheap troops and sturdy troops and they dont have to split everything into a different detachment because "Oh no, theres a wraith unit next to the guardian defenders, now they forget how to craftworld".
There are so many qualitiy of life entries in the codex we (and others, except vanilla marines) can only dream of

Just want to say that I agree with everything you've said here.


Back on topic, apparently these are the first 4 books:

Tome 1 : Asuryani vs. Drukhari (october 2019)

Tome 2 : Chaos vs BT (end of november)

Tome 3 : Blood Angels vs. Tyranides (before 2020)

Tome 4 : SW vs Ork (somewhere after)

Boy, I wonder who'll be victorious in books 2-4.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Boy, I wonder who'll be victorious in books 2-4.

No one, we will all lose
I bet my money that the books will be similar to the ruined orgasm that vigilus 2 was.

On a side note, if these rumors are true it seems like the Dark Angels get shafted once more
But hey, maybe they get the Primarch back in another year

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Back on topic, apparently these are the first 4 books:

Tome 1 : Asuryani vs. Drukhari (october 2019)

Tome 2 : Chaos vs BT (end of november)

Tome 3 : Blood Angels vs. Tyranides (before 2020)

Tome 4 : SW vs Ork (somewhere after)

Boy, I wonder who'll be victorious in books 2-4.

I doubt the list is true.
Url of the icon for phoenix rising used on warhammer-community:
MapIcon1

Now if you replace the 1 with a 2, you will get:
MapIcon2

Makes it more likely, that sisters will be the main faction in the second book, which makes alot sense, since they promised new sisters for this year.

Sisters of battle are more neglected than even we are, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, even with the rebooted range, if they are relegated to the back field in favor of more Primarus and are not the main focus of one of the books. Just because we see their symbol is used on the map doesn't mean that they will be of the upmost importance. The story could be taking place on a Shrine World that is under attack and they are upstaged and pushed aside narratively by the Space Marines.

CurstAlchemist wrote:

Sisters of battle are more neglected than even we are

Which always feels wild to me. Sisters are one of 40k's iconic factions, but they've been sat collecting dust for over twenty years. It's just utterly bizarre and I'm glad GW have finally figured out that, hey, maybe people actually want to buy new miniatures of them?

Ha maybe they get Khornate Knighted
again

Yeah I agree, I'm not necessarily about to go out and buy a sisters army, but the new models look really nice and more than anyone else they deserved a full reboot.

On the topic of psychic awakening, they are discussing it on warhammer tv today. I didn't catch the whole thing, 10 minutes left of the stream but so far they haven't discussed anything of note.

CurstAlchemist wrote:

Sisters of battle are more neglected than even we are, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, even with the rebooted range, if they are relegated to the back field in favor of more Primarus and are not the main focus of one of the books. Just because we see their symbol is used on the map doesn't mean that they will be of the upmost importance. The story could be taking place on a Shrine World that is under attack and they are upstaged and pushed aside narratively by the Space Marines.

Even Games Workshop is not that evil, using the symbol of one faction for the second phase and then not putting them in the book. And is still at least a hint that the list may be wrong, especially, if there is no trustable source for the list mentioned.
By the way, they announced today that the old metal sister range will be removed from the store.

I still think this all points to second phase of psychic awakening will be together with the new released sisters, and the sheer number of boxes, this alone is, means every other faction besides them in it, can't get that much new. We know how many new boxes GW can release in a month is limited, even with some of the sisters delayed for christmas, the other factions can't get that much new.

By the way, when looking in the source code of psychic awakening page, i see alot classes like aos-init or soul-wars-post. Seems to be a reused page.

But i found another image there:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/40k7-Race-CSM-v1.png

The image is implemented in a similar way to the scourge that appears, when you click on phoenix rising, but with data-js-event-bg-element="2" instead of data-js-event-bg-element="1" for the scourge. but i have not found anything that actualy displays him, but i haven't searched that deep. I think some parts for the next book are already on the page, but still with display:none, if someone has the time to look deeper, maybe she or he can find more info.

Koldan wrote:

Even Games Workshop is not that evil, using the symbol of one faction for the second phase and then not putting them in the book.

I never said they wouldn't be in the book I said there is the possibility they would be pushed to the sidelines within the book, relegated to supporting cast rather than the stars of it.

Maybe book two will be the ecclesiarchy, templars and sisters. I'm hearing mutterings about both.

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Gorgon wrote:

Maybe book two will be the ecclesiarchy, templars and sisters. I'm hearing mutterings about both.

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It's possible that these are just model releases attached to each book, not additional rules - for instance, we know that Ynnari are getting some rules in Phoenix Rising even though it's being treated as Asuryani versus Drukhari. Maybe Ynnari don't count as a distinct faction any more? I dunno.

Burnage wrote:

Which always feels wild to me. Sisters are one of 40k's iconic factions, but they've been sat collecting dust for over twenty years. It's just utterly bizarre and I'm glad GW have finally figured out that, hey, maybe people actually want to buy new miniatures of them?

It looks like GW is rescuplting the majority of the model line, not just releasing a character or vehicle like the 3rd ed release.  They have previewed Battle Sisters and a Rhino, so I am inclined to think GW wants to slow build the hype around Sisters.  They've never been popular.  I used to run them in 4th and 5th and at tournaments of 100+ people it would be rare to encounter anyone who had ever fought them.

Burnage wrote:

It's possible that these are just model releases attached to each book, not additional rules - for instance, we know that Ynnari are getting some rules in Phoenix Rising even though it's being treated as Asuryani versus Drukhari. Maybe Ynnari don't count as a distinct faction any more? I dunno.

There's a theory that the Phoenix is actually Fulgrim, and that it would be a clone of Fulgrim killing the original, demon Primarch.  I believe it was Fabius Bile who was tinkering with Fulgrim's DNA.  He already made a Horus clone.

Leman Russes can play that game too. 12" move + advance, then tank order for another 12" move and advance gets up to 36". Even regular guardsmen can go minimum 14" maximum 24" with move move move. Keep in mind that guard can give multiple orders as well, it is not rare when playing my friends IG that he will move much further than me turn 1&2.

Leman russes only going 2" less than raiders is silly. Also, with the tallarn tank order, they can go 18" and still shoot.

New Boxed set up for preorder on saturday





new Incubi looking good, I hope there are several Helmets in the sprue

Okay, so, to summarise:

Rules for creating your own Craftworlds, Kabals, Cults and Covens
Codex: Ynnari
New datasheets for Jain, Drazhar, Banshees and Incubi "as well as a number of other key Characters and units from the narrative"
Drazhar's ability to fight multiple times is "improved"
Exarch Power options for each Aspect temple
A third psychic discipline for Craftworlders in the Runes of Fortune
Fluff-wise, a Slaanesh demoness is hunting Yvraine

That's frak hype. I'm not sold on the box but Phoenx Rising sounds great.

I was interested when you mentioned that it would contain a Ynnari codex . . . and then I read the article and found that they were just reprinting the exact same godawful rules from that zero-effort White Dwarf.

Sigh.

It's sounding really good. I'm almost regretting having my force be ynnari because of those build your own kabal and new psychic powers. Oh well I like the fluff and I play against slaanesh all the time.

Box set is neat but I want more of the new models not just 5 and 5. I won't say no to another venom, hopefully the price is reasonable.

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I'm betting the box set is going to be around the £105 mark, like Shadowspear was. That'd be a really good deal considering that's probably what the four new units will cost by themselves - you're basically getting everything else for free if you were already interested in picking them up.

I'm a little worried about the 4 man squads + an Exarch. I think when it comes to selling them they will put all of them into a box making 10 man squads a pain to buy (since you end up with 2 Exarchs. Hopefully they will have a spare head and klave in the new plastic box then this shouldn't be an issue.

Ollie wrote:

I'm a little worried about the 4 man squads + an Exarch. I think when it comes to selling them they will put all of them into a box making 10 man squads a pain to buy (since you end up with 2 Exarchs. Hopefully they will have a spare head and klave in the new plastic box then this shouldn't be an issue.

It'l come with option to not build him most likely.


Its a cool box, and with the GW way of things, it'll be a few unit in there, also if you get a discount, you could end up getting 2-3 free units in the end compare to buying everything separate. I'll get 1 for sure.

amishprn86 wrote:

Its a cool box, and with the GW way of things, it'll be a few unit in there, also if you get a discount, you could end up getting 2-3 free units in the end compare to buying everything separate. I'll get 1 for sure.

^ this. I am just happy we finally have something other then our start collecting that gives us a good deal (still salty about no Apoc bundle)

On the other hand i feel like they half arsed it by giving us the new stuff + junk that there not selling much of.
If they had swapped out the Viper for another 5 man banshee squad and the Hellions/Scourges for another Venom/Incubi, then we would have a two full aspect armies with transports.

I'm not disappointed... just feel like there was potential here for this to be better