Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising

I agree with what is being said, the damage output of Technomancers WILL outweigh the durability benefits of PoF. Technomancers will be way more deadly against an IH list.

ANd lets not beat around the bush, 5++ with 6+++ is still no joke.

It's pretty silly that you can't take a 2nd obsession with artists of flesh. It's not *that* great, and offers zero protection against 1D weapons - and massed small arms fire is what is going to be taking down coven units most of the time anyway.

God, i`m so dissapointed in Ynnari faction rules presented in Rise of the Phoenix.
They seems to be so "safe", that i don`t even want to play them.

Devilogical wrote:

God, i`m so dissapointed in Ynnari faction rules presented in Rise of the Phoenix.
They seems to be so "safe", that i don`t even want to play them.

Is there actually any difference at all from the WD Index?

sorry, I was wrong with one +1 in melee. They got only +1, not +2. So mortal wounds on 5+

Another odd by-product of the new obsessions that I noticed:

wyche cult vehicles with acrobatic display will get a 4++ against pistol shots from units within 1" (and no invul save from cc attacks of course).

krayd wrote:

Devilogical wrote:

God, i`m so dissapointed in Ynnari faction rules presented in Rise of the Phoenix.
They seems to be so "safe", that i don`t even want to play them.

Is there actually any difference at all from the WD Index?

The United in Death strat got nerfed, it's gone from 1 CP to 2. Haven't spotted any other changes than that though.

We don't know yet, we'll see.
Yeah it's a bummer you can't take artists of flesh with say dark technomancers, that would probably be my go to. I think dark technomancers is good, but hardly broken, and I still think it's not going to 100% replace PoF. We still don't know what other good kabal obsessions could pop up for venoms.

That being said, assuming we've seen most of the coven obsessions, I'm leaning towards technomancers and experimental creations. I like the idea of coven units out putting a lot more damage with that mix, instead of going for more tough.

Burnage wrote:

krayd wrote:

Devilogical wrote:

God, i`m so dissapointed in Ynnari faction rules presented in Rise of the Phoenix.
They seems to be so "safe", that i don`t even want to play them.

Is there actually any difference at all from the WD Index?

The United in Death strat got nerfed, it's gone from 1 CP to 2. Haven't spotted any other changes than that though.

Greeeat. It wasn't enough that you needed to pay some really heavy unit taxes just to *use* United in Death.

Did they at least incorporate the errata (ie fix the wrong CP cost for fire and fade)?

Well disappointing, I'm glad that I stood by my expect the worst and hope for the best. It prevented me from being effected to much for the lack luster information they gave. Though I do admit that early on I got pulled into some of the hype, just glad I would pull myself back.

Pof is still a must for me, your guys meta might not be a must, but all the tournaments i go to the talos and grots just die way to fast as is, i couldn't image a 5++, especially on a BS 4+ model, some times b.c of -1 to hits they are not 5+ BS, so for me giving up +1 invul for some more damage that i dont really need.

Now with a Reaper or 3... hmm maybe i'll do 6 heavy vehicles lol

PS, Drazhar is keyword Incubi, like i said, it wasnt an official publication so dont trust it

amishprn86 wrote:

Pof is still a must for me, your guys meta might not be a must, but all the tournaments i go to the talos and grots just die way to fast as is, i couldn't image a 5++, especially on a BS 4+ model, some times b.c of -1 to hits they are not 5+ BS, so for me giving up +1 invul for some more damage that i dont really need.

Now with a Reaper or 3... hmm maybe i'll do 6 heavy vehicles lol

My meta is ITC highly competitive and POF is not going to survive the marine supplements. Grots are already done, half move psychic power or tremor shells wrecks them and puting them in raiders is way too risky. WWP also doesn't work with omniscramblers. Sol thats them pretty much done regardless of obscessions. Wracks at least camp objectives, but again, they don't need POF to do that well.

So really we are talking about Talos since POF doesn't do anything for venoms or raiders. I think this is what is throwing folks off. Everyone forgets those can be coven. A venom that wounds infantry on a 2+ and is damage 2 or vehicles on a 5+ and is damage 2 is actually pretty crazy. I also think damage 2 haywire blasters that trigger on a 3+ are not being respected well enough. The meta is primaris heavy. These are tools that specifically kill them. Talos are fine with a 3+ 5++ that doesn't make POF a bad choice, but there is definitely an argument at least as opposed to before.

Yeah I think it goes both ways. PoF is good, it's not going to be completely taken out of use by any new coven traits in the book. That being said I definitely think there's a strong case to be made for dark technomancers. That's good, it's brings some variety to covens instead of the choice being PoF or bust.

Red Corsair wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

Pof is still a must for me, your guys meta might not be a must, but all the tournaments i go to the talos and grots just die way to fast as is, i couldn't image a 5++, especially on a BS 4+ model, some times b.c of -1 to hits they are not 5+ BS, so for me giving up +1 invul for some more damage that i dont really need.

Now with a Reaper or 3... hmm maybe i'll do 6 heavy vehicles lol

My meta is ITC highly competitive and POF is not going to survive the marine supplements. Grots are already done, half move psychic power or tremor shells wrecks them and puting them in raiders is way too risky. WWP also doesn't work with omniscramblers. Sol thats them pretty much done regardless of obscessions. Wracks at least camp objectives, but again, they don't need POF to do that well.

So really we are talking about Talos since POF doesn't do anything for venoms or raiders. I think this is what is throwing folks off. Everyone forgets those can be coven. A venom that wounds infantry on a 2+ and is damage 2 or vehicles on a 5+ and is damage 2 is actually pretty crazy. I also think damage 2 haywire blasters that trigger on a 3+ are not being respected well enough. The meta is primaris heavy. These are tools that specifically kill them. Talos are fine with a 3+ 5++ that doesn't make POF a bad choice, but there is definitely an argument at least as opposed to before.

Thats odd, we have trip knights, chaos knights, custodes tanks, admech knights, its all stupid knights. EDIT: And CWE flyer spam, with Chaos daemons Jim vessel list

When they shoot something like 50 damage a turn, i must have that 4++ or they are dead.

here is an example, 2 tournaments ago (we do them every month) my -2 to hit, 3++ skyweavers died turn 2. 5++ coven has no chance here.

Grotesques don get any bonus dfron these two obsessions. They don't have melee poisoned weapons.

Anyway, it's no needed choose betwen PoF and this new, you can use both, one detachment each. I think that Cronos are now playable 2d6 S3, ap2, d1+1, +1 to wound and a roll of 6+ (+1) is d1+1d3

Then neither will a 4++. Your acting as though it's 100% increase in durability. It's a 25% increase which is very strong, but all I am saying is there is an argument to be made unlike before. But apparently folks would rather just keep doing the same shtick. No judgement, that's fine of course. But if your -1 to be hit potentially -2 and 4++ skyweavers are getting dusted quickly I fail to see how a 4++ rather then a 5++ is wining you any more games outside rolling unusually hot.

What I like are the interactions with vehicles as well. A reaper wounding t7 on a 2+ and inflicting d6+1 damage is interesting. As I said before, venoms wounding infantry on a 2+ is massive, the fact they wound tanks on a 5+ and do 2 damage can't be ignored either, they basically become discount dissies. A coven raider with a damage 3 dissy on that note lol.

True on melee, but Grotesques full Liquefators are nearly unchargable and they shred nearly everything near to them.


Yeah Cronos are interesting now, but I can't stop thiking about liquefators. A Talos with Lique+Haywire is pretty good overall

Cerve wrote:

True on melee, but Grotesques full Liquefators are nearly unchargable and they shred nearly everything near to them.


Yeah Cronos are interesting now, but I can't stop thiking about liquefators. A Talos with Lique+Haywire is pretty good overall

liquifiers are 11pts each and have an 8" range. Then I don't know what player decides to charge grots willingly anyway if liquifiers go down in chapter approved it might be worth it though, but I'd probably rather put them on wracks.

I'm not sure about liqufiers. Given they are s3, still only wound t4 on 4s, but the extra damage is nice vs primaris. It's also a pretty substantial pts increase on grots to give them all liqufiers, wouldn't take them for the whole unit.

Cronos is nothing to write home about, it's not enough shots to be significant. Its use remains in the reroll 1s aura.

Talos with twin liqufiers I might think about though. Take those, plus splinter cannons and you've got a pretty nice anti-infantry shooting platform. Again though the pts cost comes into play, I'd think about it more if liquifiers went down in pts.

I'm hoping for a points decrease on some things (liquifiers, for one) in CA2019. Then massed liquiifer guns might be viable.

I think it silly that we are going to have more venom spam b.c 2+ to wound and 2D.

Guess what next event i'm testing out when this book is released, tho i only have 8 Venoms, i want 8 more, hmmm.

amishprn86 wrote:

I think it silly that we are going to have more venom spam b.c 2+ to wound and 2D.

Guess what next event i'm testing out when this book is released, tho i only have 8 Venoms, i want 8 more, hmmm.

Honestly venoms get a lot of attention but raiders with dissies are just as good IMO. it's 5 more points then a dual canon venom but you get more wounds and a solid gun. Raiders with that trait wound tanks on a 4+ and do 3 damage lol

Red Corsair wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

I think it silly that we are going to have more venom spam b.c 2+ to wound and 2D.

Guess what next event i'm testing out when this book is released, tho i only have 8 Venoms, i want 8 more, hmmm.

Honestly venoms get a lot of attention but raiders with dissies are just as good IMO. it's 5 more points then a dual canon venom but you get more wounds and a solid gun. Raiders with that trait wound tanks on a 4+ and do 3 damage lol

Losing the -1 to hit has always been the big drawback of Raiders for me in this edition. That's possibly less of an issue in the Marine meta given that a single -1 to hit really doesn't bother most Marine shooting now, especially if they're in a Chapter Master aura.

Burnage wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

I think it silly that we are going to have more venom spam b.c 2+ to wound and 2D.

Guess what next event i'm testing out when this book is released, tho i only have 8 Venoms, i want 8 more, hmmm.

Honestly venoms get a lot of attention but raiders with dissies are just as good IMO. it's 5 more points then a dual canon venom but you get more wounds and a solid gun. Raiders with that trait wound tanks on a 4+ and do 3 damage lol

Losing the -1 to hit has always been the big drawback of Raiders for me in this edition. That's possibly less of an issue in the Marine meta given that a single -1 to hit really doesn't bother most Marine shooting now, especially if they're in a Chapter Master aura.

Yup, agreed. I also face a lot of admech who can reroll anything near cawl or get multiple +(x) bonuses to hit. But as you said, with the auras slowly converting over to rerolling anything that gap is getting much thinner. I also think most folks just don't own raiders in the same quantity, the yacht club was popular with old grognards like me a long time back but since the venoms release it has always been awesome. I have always liked raiders for their ability to block and let the occupants get off either end lol.

It also didn't help that most of the obscessions until now also mostly helped venoms only.