Death from the Skies

Could just ask GW for a full refund

What a truly strange release. So in the end it amounts to little more than he reprint of rules from a what was a limited print odd-ball specialty game limited release book (Crusade of Fire), and a minor faq to the Marine codices. It just weird, GW tends not to release ANYTHING unless its in support for a major release. I really just dont get it.

Just for those who'd like to read this, a review from a Warseer member.

Compel wrote:

At £20, the book is 72 pages long. Softcover, reminiscent of the old Campaign book covers (EG Black Crusade)

The back cover is just a load of pictures of the flyers for sale.

Page 5 - 20: "The Battle of Cadrim" - This looks like a slightly extended version of the section in White Dwarf when the storm talon came out. It includes the same pictures of the White Scars armies etc.

Page 23 - 29: Air War Missions.

Mission 1: Deadly Bridgehead: Space Marines with Necron allies, against Orks.
Mission 2: Scramble; Space Marines V Orks
Mission 3: Aerial Assault: Necrons V orks with Space Marine allies
Mission 4: Death from the Skies: Necrons V Marines

Page 32 - 40: Burning Skies - Looks like a reprint of the Crusade of Fire rules

Page 40 - 55: Gallery pictures

Now we're coming to the important bit

Page 56: StormRaven Beastiary: It includes the FAQ updates. EG, a Dreadnaught taking s10 hits if the flyer explodes and is zooming. The important note is Blood Angels and Grey Knights armies use the rules printed here though their storm ravens have additional wargear options and rules - see the army list for details. Also, new piece of artwork. An ultrasmurf storm raven.

Page 57: Storm Talon: Still 2 HP. It now has the Strafing Run rules. Type (Flyer, Hover). Escort craft rules looks to be clarified to avoid anything BS-ey. Can't escort anything using Outflank / Deepstriking. Plus other stuff. NO supersonic rules

Page 58: Valkyrie/Vendetta: Exactly the same as the IG codex, but with HP's added in - Same as rulebook. Also the Grav Chute Insertion rules have been updated with the FAQ rules

Page 59: VoidRaven/Razorwing: I'm assuming these are the same? Razorwing Armour 10, VoidRaven Armour 11. Night Vision/Supersonic rules

Page 60: DoomScythe: Looks the same as before
Page 61: NightScythe: Broadly the same as before. They clarify the embarked unit doesn't take damage when destroyed. Also they enter through normal reserves? No mention of rembarking on a night scythe... However. "If a night scythe has moved more than 24", the disembarking unit may only fire snap shots."

Page 62: Dakkajet: No Hover. However, Strafing run, supersonic. Fighta Ace upgrade has been renamed to 'flyboss' - it basically gives him Strafing Run against things you don't get strafing run against.... Aside from that, same as before.

Page 63: Burna Bomber, Blitza Bomber: Seems the same as before, with obvious changes. No hover. Supersonic, waaagh plane! Points costs and upgrades are identical to White Dwarf.

Page 64: Wargear. A burna bomb is a bomb... Death Ray looks like it has rules changes... It hurts friendly models too. It can't hurt zooming flyers or flying monstrous creatures.

Page 65: Wargear. Everything looks the same.

Page 66: StormStrike Missiles: I dunno what to say, they actually seem to kick rear end... S8, AP2, concussive...

Page 68: Army List:
Storm Raven: Heavy Support: Yup, marines and templars get storm raven. Nothing for space puppies. Grey Knights and Blood Angels don't get stormstrike missiles. The rest looks broadly similar
Storm Talon: Marines/Black Templars only (typical). Fast Attack. A lot cheaper in points. The most expensive version is 10 points cheaper than before.

Page 69: Army List:
Valkyrie And Vendetta: Identical to earlier rules

Page 70:
Razorwing, Voidraven, Doom Scythe, Night Scythe:
I think these are identical to their normal rules

Page 71: The Ork Flyers: In all honesty, they seem the same as the white dwarf. I think someone with more of an ork brain will need to pick out the diffferences.

Page 72: Summary Page.

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So, there you go. That's what your getting for your £20, and that's what the FLGS' are losing out on.

Just to clear this up, no changes to codex fliers, uses rules from crusade of fire?

...

Seriously, what a load of shazoonga is this book? Utter disappointment.

Couldn't possibly said it better without using explicit language. Thanks, Kinnay.

Seriously, what were they thinking? Oh, yes, probably not a whole lot.

Dogmar wrote:

Couldn't possibly said it better without using explicit language. Thanks, Kinnay.

Seriously, what were they thinking? Oh, yes, probably not a whole lot.

No they were thinking very clearly; $$$.

Not to mention, as others have suggested, they are testing the waters to further reduce the impact of (and thus alienate) independent retailers who are cutting into there dollars!

I'd be with Sky on this one if I had bought a book (thankfully I did not).Sell it while you can, unless you really like it and need the pretty pictures, missions and other fluff.

This whole Indy retailer cutting into their dollars is bogus. You know that right? GW make the same regardless of who sells it... They have to maintain their own shop fronts and staff as well...

I do not believe anything has hurt them.. YET. I believe they will close their stores in the next few years.

Massaen wrote:

This whole Indy retailer cutting into their dollars is bogus. You know that right? GW make the same regardless of who sells it... They have to maintain their own shop fronts and staff as well...

Bogus you say? Tell me then, how is that I can go to a GW shop and pay full sticker price, where GW collect's the full profit from that sale, versus going to a local independent shop where they give me 10% off all standard GW prices, where the store manager Bill has to "buy" GW products but still sells it for a profit? Because he changes less than GW, and therefore gets my money when he makes a sale, that is "cutting into" GW's profit on a simple transaction by transaction scale. Yet, when he can't sell a product because it is online only, how does that not affect his revenue? Or how about the fact that GW prohibits the sale of their IP on private, commercial websites? This happened as of July of 2003. How has that not affect his ability to do business with their products?

I really enjoy the hobby, and I think GW has a lot going for it as of late. However, their relations with independent retailers and their policies and practices affecting the sale of their products is marginalizing. And their bottom line shows healthy growth over the past few years for a lot of reasons, but one of them definitely is asserting a stronger market control to favor their stores and outlets of sale as opposed to third parties.

what a clusterf---. way to piss of your fans GW.

The most annoying thing about this is that it sold out. Which might encourage GW to do more of the same.

GW will think it was a good product. Print off a tone more, and then no one will by them, because by the time they are printed (in a month or so) everyone will have realised it's a terrible book. Hopefully tournament organisers will include the few changes in their in their tournament FAQ, so players don't have to bring a proper copy. Apparently that's what NOVA is doing.

Mushkilla wrote:

GW will think it was a good product. Print off a tone more, and then no one will by them, because by the time they are printed (in a month or so) everyone will have realised it's a terrible book. Hopefully tournament organisers will include the few changes in their in their tournament FAQ, so players don't have to bring a proper copy. Apparently that's what NOVA is doing.

Yeah I read that yesterday and had a little LOL

"Bogus you say? Tell me then, how is that I can go to a GW shop and pay full sticker price, where GW collect's the full profit from that sale, versus going to a local independent shop where they give me 10% off all standard GW prices, where the store manager Bill has to "buy" GW products but still sells it for a profit? Because he changes less than GW, and therefore gets my money when he makes a sale, that is "cutting into" GW's profit on a simple transaction by transaction scale. "

GW stores are in "prime" locations.
Hobby stores are not.
It costs much more to rent prime.

GW staff receive pensions and benefits
Hobby Store owners usualy end up for three £ an hour
Again, a cost reflected in the selling price.

GW stores display painted miniatures, and frequently rotate these
Hobby stores display sealed sellable boxes.
Again, a higher cost in the GW store.



The idea that GW is being bankrupted by Wayland is a bit wide of the mark.

I buy GW products from independent retailers who run their own shop in Waterloo, opposite the London Eye and still manage to sell GW for 20% less than GW does (more like 25-30% in many cases) and still manage to turn a profit. GW is price gouging their own customers and has been for many, many years.

And are they small business owners who work 70 hour weeks for little pay?
Is the London Eye Bond Street?

Games nights, free painting lessons, staff, all cost money.

DominicJ wrote:

And are they small business owners who work 70 hour weeks for little pay?
Is the London Eye Bond Street?

Games nights, free painting lessons, staff, all cost money.

They do games most nights in store and often at weekend. They're probably paying nearly the same rent that GW is paying on its flagship Plaza store, they charge 20-30% less on the products and are still turning a profit. In fact, they're looking to move to larger premises. GW is ripping us off. I can't remember the last time I bought anything from a GW store and I hope I never do again.

I hate to get all Warseer and that but could we take GW pricing discussions to another thread please.

Sky Serpent wrote:

I hate to get all Warseer and that but could we take GW pricing discussions to another thread please.

Sorry Sky, I made some inferences based on the processes that this new "compendium" (money-grab) was marketed and sold, which was really crappy, and we started taking this left turn away from the point. So back on track:

Is there actually any value to be had out of this book? I have read a fair bit and there has been some basic overviews, but why, for those who own a book, would you want to keep it? Are the missions decent? Are there any good hobby tips (how to paint a <insert flyer here>?) Any new fluff? Are the picture pretty at least? Different from the ones we see on the website for the one-click bundles?

Which brings me back to my question. Is there different general rules for fliers in that book? Or is there literally nothing new for the current game?

shadowseercB wrote:

Which brings me back to my question. Is there different general rules for fliers in that book? Or is there literally nothing new for the current game?

I don't have the book, but the synopses from above state what rules have changed: loss of Deep Strike, Stormtalon rules update, Stormraven rules update. That's it as far as a basic game of 40k is concerned. Thus my questions as well. Is there any value to be had from this book?

I really dont get what fuss this all about.

Probably the whole idea of this book borns from some employee said - hey, boss, we have crap load of flyers rules scattered across different monthly editions white dwarfs and FAQs. SO new players coming around wont get what this Stormtalon is and how to play it. Lets do some stuff that streamline the process.

Some of you said its FAQ for money. That aint true.

Stormraven was never available for SM and BT. What are you propose to write in respective FAQs - buy Blood Angels or Grey knights codex for unit rules? No stealing here.

Valk got updated in FAQ, no stealing here either.

Stormtalon got upgraded from what - White Dwarf version? Well yeah, White Dwarfs arent FAQd. Same goes for Orky stuff. Its just what it has on the front end. Compilation. Yeah, sad, sure, i would prefer something new too, and the bloody Void Raven as well. Pity, but thats what it is.


Direct only, well, who the hell know the exact reason for this. Where i play its sooner find its way to iPads then anything else. Pretty sure i wont even see hardback copy.

Count Adhemar wrote:

I buy GW products from independent retailers who run their own shop in Waterloo

Off Topic: What's the shop called? May have to womble on down there.

Here's a question. Our fighter ace was left out of the crusade of fire book, was he left out of this one as well?