6th Ed rumors and DE

HERE: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/rules-from-rulebook-are-here-hull-pts.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212)

has it that there is no 'initiative' phase - if this is the case does that not nerf vect and other sieze the initiative like characters?

Big rumour dump on The Tyranid Hive. I will post it in a quote with comments afterwards; you'll have to sift through it as a lot of it we already know but there is some interesting stuff too....

ZAlpha wrote:

Core System

- Change to Pre-Measure like WHFB 8th Edition.
- Force Organization Chart is still in use, no use of Percentage
- Adding new FoC Slot called "Fortification" [0-1] / see below
- Phases remains the same, Movement, Shooting, and then Assault
- No Psychic Phase
- No Initiative Phase


Movement Phase
- Movement is pretty much the same. Infantry can move 6", Jump Infantry 12" and so on.

Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)
- Pistol is pretty much the same.
- New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving.
- Heavy Weapon can now be fired on the move, but will be subjected to 'snap fire' rule.
- "Snap Fire" allows certain weapon types to shoot even if moving, but with a BS of 1 (ie. 6 to hit)
- Blast Weapons cannot "snap fire"
- You can only killed as much models in target unit as you can actually see (and within max range).
- Casualties are now removed from closest to furthest.
- Wound Allocation is completely changed.
- When shooting at unit partially in cover, player can choose to "Focus Fire" to kill only models in the open (or in a less covered position).
- You can now throw (most) grenades in the Shooting Phase at the range of 8", limited to 1 grenade per unit per Phase.


Assault Phase
- Charge Distance is now 2D6" adding together.
- Unit can elect to "Overwatch" if being assaulted. Simply a "Stand and Shoot 40K version" - resolved at BS1, Template does D3 hit instead.
- Overwatch can be done only once per turn.
- Unit declaring multiple assaults will suffer from "Disoriented Charge" (not get +1A)
- Unit assaulting multiple enemy unit is subjected to multiple Overwatch.
- Unlike Stand & Shoot, Overwatch does NOT cause Morale Check or Pinning.
- Pile-in reduced to 3" and is done at the model's Initiative Step (ie. before the model could strike)
- Casualties are removed from the front rank, like the case of Shooting Phase
- Units can elect to auto-fail Morale Check at the end of Combat if all models in the unit cannot hurt the attacker at all (ie. S3 vs T10).
- Challenges are in for IC.
- Close-Combat Weapon now have AP value, ranging from AP- to AP1. Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition.
- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)
- Fists and Chainfists are Sx2 AP2 and Unwieldy (Intiative reduced to 1), Thunder Hammers has "Concussive" (the exact (or almost) same rules as in 5th Edition)


Vehicles
- Vehicles are now limited to move at the maximum of 12" in the Movement Phase (though it can move further in the Shooting Phase if desired)
- Vehicles can opt to move "Flat Out" in the Shooting Phase, adding an extra 6".
- Vehicles movement and weapons. Defensive and Primary Weapons are gone. You can fire all of your weapons at most of the time. But moving faster will result in less weapon fired at basic BS, the rest will be fired at BS1 (Snap Fire)
- Fast Skimmer moving Flat Out can be more lethal (fire more weapons than in 5th and moving faster [12" Normal + 18" Flat Out])
- Skimmer got a cover save called Jink, basically 5+ cover save and improved to 4+ if going Flat Out.
- Vehicles count as WS0 (auto-hit) if stationary and WS1 (3+ hit) if moved. No idea on how Fast or Skimmer will have bonus, as cover aren't used in Assault.
- Flyers are now in, with its own rules.
- Flyers can move very fast and is hard to target (6 only to hit) unless the shooter has Skystrike rules that allow them to shoot flyer at normal BS.
- When moving fast (called "Zooming") Flyers cannot move less than 12" and cannot disembark any models.

Vehicle and Damage
- New Vehicle Damage Chart, one to rule them all. 1-2 being Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 and 5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised, and 6 Explodes! You only roll the table if the shot penetrate the Armour. Wrecks occur only from taking certain amount of Glancing Hits.
- AP 2 weapons add +1 to the chart, while AP1 adds +2.
- AP"-" is no longer -1 on the table.
- Open-Topped is +1 as well.
- No more "Half Strength if the center hole is off", you always use full strength for any blast that hits the vehicle.
- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck.
- Vehicles has 3 or 4 HP, notable 4 HP vehicles are Ghost Ark, Land Raider, and Monolith. Details can be found in the rulebook appendix. (Bloodwing stated that some player propose that the formula for Hull Points is Front + Side(once) + Rear divide by 3. Fractions rounding down - this seems to be true.


Vehicle and Passenger
- Passenger can only disembark if vehicle move 0-6".
- Disembarking rules changes, you now place models in base contact with the access point and move up to 6" - this is the furthest distance the unit may move.
- Embarking is pretty much the same.
- Unit count as moving if the vehicle moved 0.1-6", and can only "Snap Fire" if the vehicle move 6.01 - 12"
- Open-topped transport rules are the same (access points and fire points)
- Exploding Flyer that has "zoomed" will result in a S10 no armour save on its passenger. And some sort of S6 Large Blast at any unit under the point the vehicle goes on flame.


Psychic Power
- NO PSYCHIC PHASE (or whatever people are assuming they are)
- Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed.
- Types of psychic power, witchfire (psychic shooting attack), focused witchfire (has a chance to allow player to choose the target model when removing casualty by rolling low scores on Psychic Test), nova (affects all enemy units within range), maelstrom (affecting both friendly and enemy within range), blessing (augmented friend), and malediction (de-buff enemy).
- "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker.
- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer.
- There are 5 new Disciplines of Psychic Powers in the BRB, each has 7 Powers. Each army can access different Disciplines, some cannot use them at all.
- Casting Psychic Power remains the same as in 5th.
- Psychic Powers now have 2 level, calling Warp Charge 1 and 2. Mastery Level 1 can only use Warp Charge 1 power, while Mastery Level 2 allows you to cast 2 "Warp Charge 1" power or 1 "Warp Charge 2". Higher Mastery allows for more.
- Each Psyker generate Warp Charge equal to his Mastery Level.

Characters
- Look Out, Sir! is in. Grants character 50% chance to evade the attack if he's within 6" of friendly unit (works in combat too), resolved each successful Look Out Sir on the models within 6" instead.
- Look Out Sir! is improved to 2+ for Independent Character.
- Character can issue / accept challenges.
- One model in your army will be the Warlord (one with highest LD), Warlord can roll on a table (there's 3 table, you can choose 1) to see what benefit he receive. Examples are units within 12" can use his LD, the Character count as Scoring Units, Warlord has FNP if within 3" of Objective.


Tidbits
- Fortification - a new addition to the FoC, limited to 0-1 this allows player to purchase some kind of terrain for their army. Expensive one are Fortress of Redemption (220 points) and cheap ones are Aegis Defence Lines (50 points)
- Allies - a new system that allows player to have a detachment made of another army in the list. Allies works like WFB8th Edition with best buddies, normal allies, and untrusted. The detachment is limited to 1HQ and 1 Troop(compulsory) and additional 1 Troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support.

Missions
- There are 3 Deployment Types, one being the classic Pitched Battle, second one is reversed Pitched Battle (deploying along the short table edges), and third one is a triangular deployment.
- Selecting deployment zone remains the same, roll-off to see who deploys first and go first.
- Seize Initiative is still the same.
- 6 Missions with 2 Level Objectives. Primary Objectives grants more Victory Points, but harder to achieve. Secondary Objective is always 1 VP and has 3 of them. First Blood (for getting the first "kill point", Slay the Warlord (for killing the enemy Warlord - aka. general), and Linebreaker (having your units in enemy deployment zone at the end of the game)
- Deep Strike Mishap is softened now: 1 - You're Dead, 2-3 Misplaced, and 4-6 Delayed.
- Feel No Pain dropped to 5+
- There's still only 1 Level of Instant Death, no Instant Death(x)
- Fleet allows for re-rolls on Run and possibly Assault distances.
- "Hammer of Wrath" allows model to make single attack at their base strength before combat on the turn it assault. Jump Infantry and Bike have it.
- Monstrous Creature can make "Smash" attack, forfeit half of its attack to resolve attack at Sx2 against vehicle.
- Flying Monstrous Creature can make two mode of movement. One being 24" move, performing D3+1 "Vector Strike" on a single unit within the path and then shoot up to two weapons or run 2D6" in the shooting phase. However, it cannot assault or being assaulted unless it get shot and fall down from the sky first (can't remember how you fire at it, 6 only?) Should it fall from the sky, it will take S9 hit and can now be assaulted as normal.
- Sniper has rule to allow them to allocate wounds to the model of your choice if you roll a 6 when rolling to hit.
- Rage is now +2 Attack on assault.
- Many new generalization of rules...such as Armourbane (roll 2d6 for armour penetration) and Fleshbane (2+ to wound)....this also expands to weapons as well (unwieldy, concussive, etc.)

Multiple assaults means you don't get +1A, not an issue for me as I rarely MA with my Wyches and then only against vehicles which doesn't matter anyway. You can also get shot by every unit you assault that turn.

Able to auto fail a morale test if it is impossible to hurt the opponent, ie your Warriors get stuck against a Wraithlord etc.

I'm confused by this one, pile in is only 3" but has to be done at your intiative step and casualties must be removed from the front. Maybe I am understanding it wrong but your 10 Wyches charge 30 Boyz and wipe out enough that only a few can hit back but are then forced to pile in, thus the Boyz strike with more attacks?

Vehicles can only move 12". Raiders can go flat out 18" but thats in the shooting phase, adding a small tactical element. A Raider with Enhanced Aethersails would have a top speed of 42". WHOOSH.

Defensive weapons are gone. Looking likely that a Venom will have BS1 on its second cannon when moving 12".

I want to talk about Jink again. Is this the end of the Flickerfield, swap those for Night Shields which will be more reliable with premeasuring coming in.

Hull points. A glancing hit removes these but you don't roll on the damage table. How hard is it to glance a Rhino? Haywire Blasters, hurrah!

Disembarking. Raider can only move 6", you then start in base contact, move 6", we still don't know anything properly about Fleet but I am slightly worried.

Sky Serpent wrote:

I want to talk about Jink again. Is this the end of the Flickerfield, swap those for Night Shields which will be more reliable with premeasuring coming in.

Unfortuantly not all fast skimmers get this save according to this rumour:

Quote :

All Bikes and Landspeeders DO NOT get the benefit of a 'Jink' save.

Only Dark Angel RAVENWING BIKERS AND LANDSPEEDERS GET THE JINK SAVE!!!

It is a special rule that Ravenwing had in every edition codex until the last one. It looks like with the upcoming 6th Ed FAQ and Codex:Dark Angels they will FINALLY get it back and have an advantage over other bikers again!

Source

Live Q&A with someone with a rulebook has a pic with proof:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vj64o/im_sitting_here_with_a_new_40k_rulebook_ama/

Quick rumours from that Q&A for Dark Eldar.

Eldar Jetbikes can turbo boost 36" in the shooting phase, that's up to 48" a turn.

Venoms will have 2 hull points.

Fleet lets you reroll run and assault.

Sky Serpent wrote:

Quick rumours from that Q&A for Dark Eldar.

Eldar Jetbikes can turbo boost 36" in the shooting phase, that's up to 48" a turn.

Venoms will have 2 hull points.

Fleet lets you reroll run and assault.

Says vipers are 2, venoms may till be 3 as they are transports.

I asked if fleet let you run and charge, answer is no.

It only lets you reroll your run and charge moves.

Sky Serpent wrote:

Quick rumours from that Q&A for Dark Eldar.

Eldar Jetbikes can turbo boost 36" in the shooting phase, that's up to 48" a turn.

So our Reavers will do their bladevanes damage in the shooting phase again.

I read that fleet will be 2 D6 for assault with a rerol on the lowest.

Haywire grenades can be thrown, BS to hit then normal effects. 8"range.

Good news:

Quote :

all fast skimmers get jink 5+ cover save if they move at all, so do jetbikes.

Beasts ignore cover.

No more wounds for lost combats when fearless?
Also the Allies rules are insane. Always up to 1 HQ, 2 Standards, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack and 1 Heavy Support... The only difference: desperate allies have to check each turn if they don't do anything on a 1, normal Allies are normal and Best Buddies can even join each other's squads with their IC and cast psychic powers on each other?!

Fortune on Wyches and Incubi! Doom before a Bloodbride assault! Fortune for our fliers!

Quote :

u cant run and charge even with fleet. lets you reroll the charge and you runs.

Thats very sad.

pingualoty wrote:

Good news:

Quote :

all fast skimmers get jink 5+ cover save if they move at all, so do jetbikes.

Still does not make flicker fields obsolete in my book. I last had 2 Ravagers immobilized (can't move), which still could shoot a round because of the FFs. Plus its invunerable, so cover ignoring shooters still face a 5+ save.

About that Q&A thing, did anyone notice the bit about 'fleet'? Apparantly our special USR doesn't allow us to assault after running anymore. Just a reroll on the 2D6 you need for assaulting.

EDIT: Oh yeah, it's noticed. Sorry...

Can potentially raise the assault move to somewhere between a 7 and a 12, but is it better or worse?

Hhmm... Calmly thinking about it now (after my initial shock) it might actually be an inch or 2 better. We used to have 6" assault + 1" up to 6" (roll of 1 D6). It has already been mathhammered that our new assault move is on average a 7", so with fleet (rerolls) it should per defination never be worse and would on average (if I guesstimate) be better an inch or 2.

BUT if the dicegods do not smile upon you (they hate me by the way) and your assaults tend to constantly roll below that magical 7" average you are screwed by the new fleet USR.

Whats do you guys think?

FnP is 5+ but only gets cancelled by ID.... so we will still fear S6? Or has the ID been changed?

You can shoot from a moving transport, but when it moves from >6" to 12" you can only do the snap fire.... Then Splinter Racks make a lot of sense in 6th.

New "warlord", duel, and 'look out sir' rules make the Archon more fun to play, and deadly,

Power 'swords' are AP3 (f*** my banshees...), while power 'axes' are AP2, but they make your initiative lower. I hope Incubi get AP2.... they are 22points they deserve it... man, look at that sword, it can cut trees better than an axe

Fleet, transport and charges.... you can only disembark after moving 6" with the vehicle, but you get a 6" move with the troops... so not really that different. And you can't run and assault but you charge 2D6 AND reroll with fleet (3D6 & take the 2 highest with drug number 1???)

You can throw 1 grenade per unit at 8" in the shooting phase.. so wyches can take away 1 hull point (1 glance= 1 HP) almost everytime before charging. I'm guessing if phantasm grenade launcher makes a difference in that sense...

Copy/paste from dakka on DE assault in 6th. Charge ranges are very different from 5th.

The problem with defensive fire is that if you manage to get that few wounds in, with the new rules the assaulting unit has to take their casualties from the front. Defensive fire happens before the assault move is actually performed, so with random charge length, you might not make assault at all.

Now arguably, MEQ/TEQ aren't that much affected, coz they won't take many casualties due to armour/invulnerable saves. However, take a look at DE wyches. They lose big time in assault distance with the nerfed transport and fleet rules. Current: 12+3+D6+6 charge range, for an average of 24.5", new: 6+6+(2D6 with reroll), for an average 19". They do get to shoot, but since the casualties they cause get removed from the front lines of the enemy unit they want to charge, you make reaching assault harder. Then when they assault, they take defensive fire and with their T3 Sv6+, they will take casualties, having to remove them from their front ranks again. So they might not reach assault at all, afterwards being 6" removed from their supporting transport and lounging out in the open.

With what I'm currently seeing of the 6th edition rules, all Eldar and Dark Eldar assault is not viable at all.

The potential to lob Grenades 8", nice - if this happens in the Assault Phase, and is applicabale to Haywire's, my Trueborn will now be bustin tanks in assault phase too!
Of course, depends on the rulings etc; prolly not after firing Heavy Weapons or must attack same unit that shot at....but still, if enemy vehicle is down to just 1 HP after shooting phase is over.......

Looks like haywire blasters are the way forward for AT.
Grenades got a slight boost but you can only throw 1 per unit.
Assaulting really did become a whole lot harder to achieve.
Twin cannon venoms just got a shafting.
Flickerfields don't seem so great now, so nightshields for most vehicles now

Time to break out the Ravenwing I think.

kenny3760 wrote:

Looks like haywire blasters are the way forward for AT.
Grenades got a slight boost but you can only throw 1 per unit.
Assaulting really did become a whole lot harder to achieve.
Twin cannon venoms just got a shafting.
Flickerfields don't seem so great now, so nightshields for most vehicles now

Time to break out the Ravenwing I think.

Twin cannon venoms stay the same (you can fire two weapons at full BS after moving 12" as a fast vehicle), but the rest is spot on.

I'm still with flickerfields. The difference if that you don't have to move and you get a 5+ invunerable save regardless against shooting and assaults. I'd like to try stuff out first before writing off the flicker field.

Warlord Trait Table.

Command:

1. friendly units in 12 get to use your LD
2. enemy units in 12 use the lowest LD in their squad.
3. all friendly units in 12 get move through cover.
4. all friendly units in 12 may reroll running.
5. all friendly units in 12 re roll 1s to hit when shooting at an enemy within 3 of an objective.
6. all friendly units in 12 add 1 to charge distance.

Personal:

1. warlord and his unit get counter attack if in own deployment zone.
2. warlord and his unit get furious charge if in enemy deployment zone.
3. warlord and any unit he joins in deployment get outflank.
4. get 1 VP for each character killed by you warlord.
5. your warlord and his unit get FnP if within 3 of an objective.
6. your warlord is a scoring unit.

Strategic:

1. all your units get move though cover for ruins and stealth in ruins.
2. you amy have night fighting on the first turn.
3. your outflanking units get acute senses.
4. while he is alive you may reroll reserve rolls.
5. while he is alive your opponent get -1 on reserve rolls.
6. after both sides have deployed but before scouts you may redeploy 1 unit 3D6 inches, or 3 units D6 inches, may not leave deployment zone.

Huge changes to night fighting:

You can't shoot over 36", 24 to 36 get a +2 cover save, 12 to 24 is +1.

Night Vision IGNORES this. Acute Senses doesn't.

EDIT: Get's better... EVERY mission has night fight on the first turn on a 4+ and it staggers on, on a 4+.

Well, this is interesting indeed. Strange, different... But interesting for DE nonetheless.

Quote :

4. get 1 VP for each character killed by you warlord.

With the rumors regarding dueling, this on an Archon with a Huskblade and soul trap could be pretty hilarious.