A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 169 Join date : 2013-05-30

Here's some thoughts I have for thematic changes that adopt DE to 7th edition, improves lackluster units, and feels thematically better

POWER THROUGH PAIN (DENY THE WITCH anti-psyker roll):
Every pain token a unit has gives them 1d6 for a 'deny the witch' roll for powers targeted at them. Thematically it's the twisted souls of the dark Eldar overwhelming any psychic attacks against them. Put some fear into the Craftworlders too!

UNIT CHANGES
Scourge:
-Gain interceptor, skyfire, replace jump packs with jetpacks. Thematically they're used to gunning down reavers, hellions, and others in the bloody spires of Commoragh so they're now an anti-air unit.
-Solarite has BS5, otherwise nobody upgrades.

Mandrake:
-Balefire ranged attacks do not need pain point, loses pinning and gains Blinding
-Pain point gives them rending on balefire and ccw attacks.
-Ignores cover in assault and shooting, has shrouded (seriously they're made of shadow, thematically the Mandrakes now pass through any obstacle like a shadow and rob enemies of their sight)

Grotesque:
-Gain Hammer of Wrath
-FNP (5+)

Wracks & Haemonculi:
-FNP (5+)

Trueborn:
-Ghostplate comes standard, these guys are suppose to be the rich kids y'know
-Dracon has ws/bs 5 and access to Archon weapons

Bloodbrides:
-Syren has ws/bs 5 and access to Succubus weapons
-Everyone can take wych weapons (if the trueborn can take that many blasters, the bloodbrides deserve better)

Wych
-1 in 3 wyches can take a wych weapon (why not?)

Incubi:
-Tormentor helms count as offensive/defensive grenades. Seriously weird that they didn't have a rules writeup.
-Bloodstone is "S9 vs enemy ld"

Court of the Archon:
-Ghostplate for Lhamaean and Sslyth.
-Sslyth come with a power weapon of your choice. Thematically they are bigger and slower than Eldar so a good candidate for a beefy s6 power axe.
-Ur-Ghuls are immune to blinding and give counterattack to the unit (keen senses alert Archon to danger, it's the most hound-like of the retinue)
-Medusae eyeburst is a s8 vs enemy Ld, ap 1d6, pinning, blinding template attack. Now THAT's a brain hemorrhaging attack.
-Lhamaen mistress of poisons: all poison weapons carried by Lhamaen & Archon cause Instant Death, now they're actually useful for something.

Raider: Capacity increased to 11, AV 11/10/10, splinter racks and retrofire jets come standard
Venom: Capacity increased to 6
Ravager: Retrofire jets come standard, Capacity 5 (its certainly got more room than a venom)

WEAPON & WARGEAR CHANGES

Djin Weapon:
-Choose a power spear, axe, maul, or sword
-The Djin Blade gives the wielder two extra attacks
-If a double is rolled using the Djin weapon rules becomes a regular power weapon because the soul inside is pouting.

Clone Field
-Raises wearer's WS to 10
-Enemies reroll 6's to hit wearer

Mindphase gauntlet:
-AP4. Targets make a strength and leadership test, failing either blinds them for the rest of the game.

Electrocorossive whip:
-AP3, concussive
-causes haywire hits vs vehicles.

Wych Weapons: reduce pts cost
Blast Pistol: rng 9"
Blaster: reduce pts
Darklance: reduce pts
Shredder: change to flame template, s5 (Shredderborn!)
Splintercannon: change to s4 poisoned, now you can rear end some av10
Splinter rifle/carbine/pod: change to s3 poisoned, just to be thematically similar to the cannon

Drug change: Let's not have them conflict with wych weapons, so no reroll to wound effects
1- roll 3d6 highest to run and charge
2- gain +1 ws/i
3- gain +1 s
4- gain stubborn
5- gain +1 attack
6- gain pain token

It'd be nice for all CWE/DE lance weapons to be AP1 too. Otherwise they're just underpowered lascannons that only screw over

landraiders.

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Wed Aug 13 2014, 05:13

HokutoAndy wrote:: Here's some thoughts I have for thematic changes that adopt DE to 7th edition, improves lackluster units, and feels thematically better

POWER THROUGH PAIN (DENY THE WITCH anti-psyker roll):
Every pain token a unit has gives them 1d6 for a 'deny the witch' roll for powers targeted at them. Thematically it's the twisted souls of the dark Eldar overwhelming any psychic attacks against them. Put some fear into the Craftworlders too!

As neat as this is. I'm inclined to say no, I believe pain tokens should work the way they do now (Maybe a change in what they give us though?)

HokutoAndy wrote:: UNIT CHANGES
Scourge:
-Gain interceptor, skyfire, replace jump packs with jetpacks. Thematically they're used to gunning down reavers, hellions, and others in the bloody spires of Commoragh so they're now an anti-air unit.
-Solarite has BS5, otherwise nobody upgrades.

Scourges are my favorite model in the game. But... what? I do not approve of making them skyfire and interceptor. I believe that even though this does make sense, I don't see it being plausible without increasing their points.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Mandrake:
-Balefire ranged attacks do not need pain point, loses pinning and gains Blinding
-Pain point gives them rending on balefire and ccw attacks.
-Ignores cover in assault and shooting, has shrouded (seriously they're made of shadow, thematically the Mandrakes now pass through any obstacle like a shadow and rob enemies of their sight)

I like this

HokutoAndy wrote:: Grotesque:
-Gain Hammer of Wrath
-FNP (5+)

Wracks & Haemonculi:
-FNP (5+)

I also like this.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Trueborn:
-Ghostplate comes standard, these guys are suppose to be the rich kids y'know
-Dracon has ws/bs 5 and access to Archon weapons

Only thing I dislike here is the Dracon getting access to Archon weapons. Maybe some of the wimpier ones but not a Huskblade.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Bloodbrides:
-Syren has ws/bs 5 and access to Succubus weapons
-Everyone can take wych weapons (if the trueborn can take that many blasters, the bloodbrides deserve better)

Wych
-1 in 3 wyches can take a wych weapon (why not?)

I like each of these. Although maybe not all wych weapons because... scary.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Incubi:
-Tormentor helms count as offensive/defensive grenades. Seriously weird that they didn't have a rules writeup.
-Bloodstone is "S9 vs enemy ld"

I am in for this.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Court of the Archon:
-Ghostplate for Lhamaean and Sslyth.
-Sslyth come with a power weapon of your choice. Thematically they are bigger and slower than Eldar so a good candidate for a beefy s6 power axe.
-Ur-Ghuls are immune to blinding and give counterattack to the unit (keen senses alert Archon to danger, it's the most hound-like of the retinue)
-Medusae eyeburst is a s8 vs enemy Ld, ap 1d6, pinning, blinding template attack. Now THAT's a brain hemorrhaging attack.
-Lhamaen mistress of poisons: all poison weapons carried by Lhamaen & Archon cause Instant Death, now they're actually useful for something.

I'd be inclined to use the Court because of this.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Raider: Capacity increased to 11, AV 11/10/10, splinter racks and retrofire jets come standard
Venom: Capacity increased to 6
Ravager: Retrofire jets come standard, Capacity 5 (its certainly got more room than a venom)

I see the reason of why you increased them both by one. But I'm inclined to say, ultra-cheese. That's just... no... It'd be so unfair to have Duke and a 10 man squad of warriors running around. Although I'm alright with the Venom.

As for the Ravager... I dislike the idea of a Capacitiy, although it makes sense. Considering the large amount of empty space on them.

HokutoAndy wrote:: WEAPON & WARGEAR CHANGES

Djin Weapon:
-Choose a power spear, axe, maul, or sword
-The Djin Blade gives the wielder two extra attacks
-If a double is rolled using the Djin weapon rules becomes a regular power weapon because the soul inside is pouting.

This made me laugh, I like it.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Clone Field
-Raises wearer's WS to 10
-Enemies reroll 6's to hit wearer

Umm... WS 10? I'm sorry but I really disagree on this. I can't understand how the field increases your skill with a blade.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Mindphase gauntlet:
-AP4. Targets make a strength and leadership test, failing either blinds them for the rest of the game.

This is good, and solid.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Electrocorossive whip:
-AP3, concussive
-causes haywire hits vs vehicles.

This actually makes alot of sense.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Wych Weapons: reduce pts cost
Blast Pistol: rng 9"
Blaster: reduce pts
Darklance: reduce pts
Shredder: change to flame template, s5 (Shredderborn!)
Splintercannon: change to s4 poisoned, now you can rear end some av10
Splinter rifle/carbine/pod: change to s3 poisoned, just to be thematically similar to the cannon

All the weapons at once I see. I disagree with reducing the price of Blasters and Darklances. Iffy about the Shredders. Fair enough on the Splinter Cannons and Rifles.

HokutoAndy wrote:: Drug change: Let's not have them conflict with wych weapons, so no reroll to wound effects
1- roll 3d6 highest to run and charge
2- gain +1 ws/i
3- gain +1 s
4- gain stubborn
5- gain +1 attack
6- gain pain token

These... They're nice... I like.

HokutoAndy wrote:: It'd be nice for all CWE/DE lance weapons to be AP1 too. Otherwise they're just underpowered lascannons that only screw over

landraiders.
Underpowered lascannons? I don't think they need to be AP1 but hey, wouldn't be bad for their price.

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 169 Join date : 2013-05-30

I was thinking of "How can I take this pretty complicated current wargear and make it as simple as possible". What does the clonefield do? The clonefield obscures the location of the wearer with realistic mirror images (so harder to be hit), but I've also watched a lot of ninja movies and the other half of "mirror images" is seeing four guys bring their swords down on you, and you don't know which one is illusion and which one is going to cut you in half (so the wearer's attacks are harder to avoid). Now the stat that governs "being hit/getting hit" is weaponskill, so cranking it up to 10 was the simplest way to convey a pretty complicated set of equipment.

As for the Scourges, I was thinking about their fluff of living in the spires, feet almost never touching the ground, and how they favor carrying long range heavy weapons. Up in the Spyres though are also hellion gangs and reaver cults, with the occasional attack jet. To me that gave the image of the Scourges being so eagle-eyed that the moment the flicker of a skimmer enters their field of vision they have their darklance instantly trained on it to send plummeting to Commoragh's streets. The mental image Reavers and Scourges locked in an aerial dogfight between sweeping bladevanes and darklight blasts also kept on playing in my head.

As DE have no dedicated anti-air it seemed like a good fit and distinguishes them for Reavers (who swoop down from above to slice off the heads of hapless footsloggers).
Yeah the Dracon shouldn't get a huskblade, I was getting hungry and leaving things blank :p. A new DE codex in today's edition would be restricting weapons like Huskblade to being a relic.

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Wed Aug 13 2014, 07:30

What do you guys think of a rule on our transports that allows passengers (possibly specifically worded to Dark Eldar passengers with the new ally rules letting battle-brothers ride each others transports) to count the vehicle as having moved no faster than combat speed in the movement phase? This would allow full BS and disembarking after having moved 12", but heavy weapons would still snap fire and flat out would still prevent everything as normal.

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Wed Aug 13 2014, 08:58

Would love to see the return of 5th ed "run then assault" for us. Makes sense....

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Trueborn Posts : 2970 Join date : 2013-04-11

Panic_Puppet wrote:: @The Shredder, 10 and 5 man capacity transports are fine, lots of armies have to deal with that...

a) No, they're not fine.

b) Which other armies have to deal with this?

Marine armies:
Rhino - 11 capacity
Razorback - 6 Capacity
Drop Pod - 10 Capacity
Land Raider - 10 Capacity
Land Raider Redeemer - 12 Capacity
Land Raider Crusader - 16 Capacity

Oh no, those poor marines, a mere 6 transports to choose from and only 2/3of them can take a 15-/10-/5-man unit and a character. Oh, and one of the transports that can't is only an AV12 vehicle that can have objective secured and ignores virtually all the risks of deep striking. Those poor marines, how do they even find the will to carry on? Wink

CSM:
Rhino - 11 Capacity
Land Raider - 10 Capacity

Don't worry CSM - someday GW will start giving you good stuff, instead of just throwing you scraps from SM books.

SoB:
Rhino - 11 Capacity
Immolator - 6 Capacity

IG:
Chimera - 12 Capacity
Taurox/Taurox Prime - 10 Capacity

Well damn. Looks like those IG are stuck with a single capacity 10 transport. If only they had access to a 12-capacity transport too... oh wait, they do.

Eldar:
Wave Serpent - 12 Capacity

Tau:
Devilfish - 12 Capacity

Necrons:
Night Scythe - 12 Capacity
Ghost Ark - 10 Capacity

Well, looks like Necrons are in real trouble here with just that 1 capacity-10 transport. If only they had something else - like a capacity 12 flier or characters who could ride alongside it in AV13 chariots. Oh well, I guess this is why Necrons will never be top tier. Rolling Eyes

Orks:
Trukk - 12 Capacity
Battlewagon - 20 Capacity

Dark Eldar:
Raider - 10 Capacity
Venom - 5 Capacity

So, explain to me again how a lot of other armies have to deal with the same problem?

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Wed Aug 13 2014, 11:30

Rhinos are actually 10 and Night Scythes are 15.

My main concern is not with the capacity, although it would be nice to bump it up a bit (6 and 12 would be good) but with the fact that we cannot take a transport unless the squad fits inside it. Something that no other army has to deal with AFAIK.

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Trueborn Posts : 2970 Join date : 2013-04-11

Count Adhemar wrote:: Rhinos are actually 10 and Night Scythes are 15.

Really? Rhinos are 10? Huh. Could have sworn they were 11.

Oh well, apologies for that one then.

Wych Posts : 506 Join date : 2012-12-30

Rhinos are pretty ubiquitous, enough that it's a big thing, but the point I was trying to make is that most armies can't fit a max troop choice AND a character into their transport. The size of the transport in and of itself is irrelevant, it's the size of the transport compared to the size of the unit you want in it. So with that in mind, you've got CSM, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Necrons, and IG that can't fit their maximum size troop unit into their transport.

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Kabalite Warrior Posts : 169 Join date : 2013-05-30

An important part of dedicated transport capacity is how it relates to size dependent upgrades for its unit.

Dark Eldar Raider holds 10, Venom holds 5
-Warriors need 10 models to get a heavy weapon
-Wych/Wracks get 1 special weapon per 5 models

Ork Trukk holds 12, Battlewagon holds 12 to 20
-Boyz need 10 models to get a special weapon

Craftworld Eldar Waveserpent holds 12
-Guardians get 1 weapons platform per 10 models
-Aspect warriors don't unlock anything by squad size

Astra Militarum Chimera holds 12
-infantry squads max out at 10 models

Tempestus Taurox holds 10
-Tepestus squads get all weapons options at 5 models

Space Marine Rhino and Drop Pod holds 10, Razorback holds 6, LR crusader holds 16 LR redeemer holds 12, stormraven holds 12+dreadnought,
-Tac squad can choose a special OR heavy weapon at 5 models, and both at 10
-Can separate into two combat squads

Out of all the above listed armies, it's only the Dark Eldar who need to remove their heavy weapons guy or lose a special combat weapon for the Archon to ride with their troops choice. Dark Eldar are the closest in organizational layout to space marines, but space marines have plenty of vehicles with above 10 capacity, as well as rules like "5 guys can take a heavy weapon" and combat squads that make unit choices more flexible with who your IC's join.

11 capacity Raiders and 6 capacity venoms would be the easiest way to bump up Dark Eldar to the standard everyone else follows without introducing new transports or changing the upgrade system of current troops.

Wych Posts : 506 Join date : 2012-12-30

In fairness, Blood Angels still get the special/heavy weapons shaft - need 10 guys for a heavy weapon, 5 guys for special. It's just the codex upgrading system, at one point everyone was like that. It'll most likely change. The problem is having transport sizes of 11 just doesn't make any sense if you don't want to put a character or otherwise in it.

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Wych Posts : 581 Join date : 2013-07-31

I don't know Panic, Chaos Space Marines work the same way. 10 for a heavy and 5 for a special.

Also, Hokuto, the point is kind of moot for a venom as Warriors and Wyches come in a minimum squad of five. You can't drop them. Now sure your point works with Wracks but then they're technically an Elite choice.

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Kabalite Warrior Posts : 169 Join date : 2013-05-30

Panic_Puppet wrote:: The problem is having transport sizes of 11 just doesn't make any sense if you don't want to put a character or otherwise in it.

The Chimera seats 12. Here's the maximum squad size for various units that take them as a dedicated transport:
-Command Squad, max 5 models
-Infantry squad, max 10 models
-Veteran squad, max 10 models
-Temptestus, max 10 models
-Wyrdvane Psykers, max 10 models
-Ogryn, max 10 models (very bulky so each takes the place of 3 models in a transport)

The Wave Serpent seats 12. Here's the maximum squad size for various units that take them as a dedicated transport:
-Avengers, max 10
-Scorpions, max 10
-Banshees, max 10
-Dragons, max 10
-Reapers, max 10
-Guardians, max 20
-Wraithguard (bulky), max 10 (so take space of 20)

So you can see that it's not unusual for a regular squad's maximum size to not completely fill their transport capacity, and in the case of IG and CWE it's more rare to find a squad that can fill its transport without attaching IC's to them. Every full squad of aspect warriors has enough room for a Farseer and Autarch to tag along for the wave serpent ride.

Slave Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-08-28

Astra Militarum have a few minor ICs that can or must join a squad, and so being able to fit in their dedicated transport is pretty important. And the infantry and veteran units are also minimum 10 models, so they don't have the option to drop a model to make room.

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Thu Aug 14 2014, 03:22

I thought Veteran squads were 5-15?

Wych Posts : 592 Join date : 2012-07-01

I can see blood brides turning into a unit upgrade for wyches thats unlocked by a character (succumbs) like rangers to pathfinders with lilic.

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 140 Join date : 2014-05-13

Lord_Alino wrote:: I thought Veteran squads were 5-15?

Nope, 10-man squads there.

Storm Troopers are 5-10 but don't gain any more specials from more models and are terrible.

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 225 Join date : 2013-01-15

Give DE vehicles "Jump, Shoot, Jump". The idea is they're meant to be fast but fragile. Right now the fast does not protect the fragile, so they're just fragile and expensive. JSJ would change that big style.

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Sat Aug 16 2014, 16:13

MyNameDidntFit wrote:

Lord_Alino wrote:: I thought Veteran squads were 5-15?

Nope, 10-man squads there.

Storm Troopers are 5-10 but don't gain any more specials from more models and are terrible.

So they can't be decreased or increased in size? Sounds weird.

Wych Posts : 592 Join date : 2012-07-01

wanderingblade wrote:: Give DE vehicles "Jump, Shoot, Jump". The idea is they're meant to be fast but fragile. Right now the fast does not protect the fragile, so they're just fragile and expensive. JSJ would change that big style.

Make Enhance sails move 2d6 in the assault phase and bam you have it on everything but venoms

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 140 Join date : 2014-05-13

Lord_Alino wrote:: So they can't be decreased or increased in size? Sounds weird.

Nope. Veteran Squads are 10 men and 10 men only. Basic Infantry Squads are also 10 men each but you can combine squads within Platoons so they're 10/20/30/40/50 strong.

For Guard units that can change size you're looking at either Storm Troopers or the non-standard units (Ratlings, Ogryn, Psykers).

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Sun Aug 17 2014, 22:55

I hope our new codex will not be as bland as the new SW codex is and the GK and Necrons are rumoured to be.

No new units except for the flyer and dread variants for SW and say goodbye to characters without models.

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Sun Aug 17 2014, 23:01

I dislike the new SW flyer. -walks away-

Subject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist Mon Aug 18 2014, 16:15

Painjunky wrote:: I hope our new codex will not be as bland as the new SW codex is and the GK and Necrons are rumoured to be.

No new units except for the flyer and dread variants for SW and say goodbye to characters without models.

I`m sorry, but what do you mean by 'bland'?
And what bland in new codexes?

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Succubus Ariel the Vengefull of the Wych cult Blade Denied to her sister, archon Elieae after the conquering Low Commoragh Dark spire.

Wych Posts : 592 Join date : 2012-07-01

Here is a thought! Word is that incubi are going to plastic, maybe that's because the klaive or demi klaive are going to be options for characters to take and they want those weapons in plastic so people can kitbash with them?!?! It would solve the problem of both our low Str and lack of ap 2 melee weapons without giving everyone a huskblade! I salivate at the thought of an archon or succubuss with a demiklaive...

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