Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

I heard that Reavers are listed as 20 in the Spanish language version of the codex.

The screenshots of the Spanish codex seemed to have all the correct points.

My guess is that the english language one is produced first, localisation happens after that.

Its entirely possible the points error was no caught by the original codex team, and the english one with incorrect points was sent to the printers. Meanwhile, once the document had been finalised in English, it was sent to the various localisation teams to perform the translations. Simultaneously, the field manual was released, and the points error was spotted. This would allow the localisers to correct the error, while the English one is stuck being printed.

Gelmir wrote:

Dude, I do quality control for a living, so I literally get payed to be negative. And I'm good at it because that's basically what I've done my whole life. I'm so good at it I even talked myself into a depression a while back.
Funny thing is that after I realized why I'm so negative all the time, it made things easier, and made me more positive.
Don't worry too much. Yes, you are very negative on this codex, and that does put a damper on people's excitement, but on the other hand, a good discussion needs a controversial opinion every now and then.
My advice: You don't have to put a sock in it if you talk about the things that bother you in the codex. But do try to also see the good things. It makes it easier for you, and you'll find a lot less resistance, while also being able to find solutions in your listbuilding that can still make it work.
As an example: I was somewhat bummed by the fact that Scourges now mostly have heavy weapons. Until I got reminded that an Archon can now buff them to counter that penalty for firing heavy weapons. It's not ideal, but that way it's a challenge. And it gives my Archon a purpose, because that's the second thing I was negative about. First I only saw the negative things, but the more I look, the more interesting list-building options I find.
Nobody wants you gone. But maybe read back what you write and see if you can blunt the edges off a little before you hit send.

Thank you. That's very good advice and I'll do my best to take it on board.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

You still like the Succubus though don’t you?  

Oh absolutely. Notwithstanding special characters, I'd say she's by far our most improved HQ. She feels much more like a proper gladiator/melee beast now. I also love that Master Succubi can attack stuff in melee and then immediately dart back out of range.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Do you a deal. My DE vs your DE in a battle. If my DE win then they are good and if your DE win then they are good...what do ya say friend?

I suppose I can't argue with that. xD

Lyijysiipi wrote:

Soulless Samurai. For what it's worth I do not wish to see ya gone from this forum either. Whilst you may have a tendency to point out the negative things about rules changes I always interpreted it to be because they were things you'd wish to improve. There are things I wish they would improve on, and those very much include, for instance, the increased variety of HQ war gear and mobility options I have seen you advocate for so many times. Alas it is a thing they did not improve this time around. But most crucially in your criticism you usually always back it up with analysis or reason which I find valuable when reading either praise or criticism. But too many posts consecutively on either direction can get grading over time.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

And you're right, of course. In future I'll try to avoid getting too bogged down in the negatives.

Lyijysiipi wrote:

But I would like ask you directly are there aspects about the new codex you enjoy, and if so what are they?

Oh there are plenty of things about the new codex that I like.

Off the top of my head:
- Army building at least feels a bit more flexible and while you have to jump through some hoops it's nice that there are at least some ways to buff Mercenaries now.
- Similarly (assuming I'm reading it right), the additional Warlord traits seem to support more flexible army builds - rather than only giving an extra trait to a single Succubus and Haemonculus.
- Some of the Kabals, Cults and such seem to have been improved. Obsidian Rose in particular now looks very good indeed.
- The extra space in both transports is obviously welcome.
- I like the Trueborn/Bloodbrides/Weirdly-named-Wrack-things upgrades. It's a neat idea and a reasonable compromise for units without models.
- I mentioned the Succubus above but with the exception of Beasts, Cult seems to have improved across the board. It's great that Combat Drugs are no longer awkward to use. I'm very keen to try Wyches and I like that Reavers seem to have gained a potential role as ranged fire support in cult armies. Also, for the first time since I started playing, Hellions actually look like a solid unit.
Almost makes me wish I hadn't wasted all mine on pointless conversions. Anyone need a DE Heavy Weapon Platform:

Spoiler:

- Master Haemonculi popping back to life is cool and I like that they can heal Coven stuff now.
- Incubi are obviously better.
- I love that all three of our troops feel strong and worthwhile. I like fielding armies with a lot of troops so I'm delighted that ours don't feel like taxes we have to pay to get Ravagers.
- Whilst I still have some reservations on this front, there do seem to be far more combinations and possibilities in this book than in the last, which is something I very much appreciate.

So yeah, while a few of the minor things still bug me (probably more than they should), the codex is definitely a significant improvement over the previous one and there's assuredly a lot to be happy about.

And in spite of my frustration at a few aspects of the book, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't also excited to try out some new armies and builds that it has made possible.  

CptMetal wrote:

Soulless Samurai and Shredder - who I at one point suspected to be one person - were those who drove me from this forum for years because I couldn't stand them any longer.

I can't say I remember many past debates with you (or perhaps you saw what I posted and didn't want to engage with me at all). However, if in the past I crossed the lines of civility during a debate or discussion with you, I can only apologise.

I might disagree with you but it was never my intention, nor my wish, to force you (or anyone else for that matter) away from this forum. And if you felt the need to leave because of me, then I am truly sorry.

I cannot change what happened between us in the past. Beyond an apology, the most I can offer is to try and amend my behaviour and temper my negativity in the future.

So... what did we all end up ordering in preparation for the book drop?

I was going through my minis bin and I found 2 NOS Warriors/Wyches and 3 NIB Venoms.. that's been sitting there since 5th and I completely forgot about. I did manage to order some Incubi from GW because they seem to be sold out everywhere else.

Oh, and dice, I picked up some of the new dice and another Succubus (bringing my total to 3). Will probably look to do some conversions with them.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

I cannot change what happened between us in the past. Beyond an apology, the most I can offer is to try and amend my behaviour and temper my negativity in the future.

Cheers

This thread has become surprisingly wholesome. Welcome back Soulless! I have at times found your posts to be over-the-top, but I wouldn’t want to lose you either. In fact, I look forward to having constructive chats with you! (I also suspected at one point that you were Shredder lol).

Apologies mods, I know I’m posting off-topic after being explicitly told not to, but for the sake of keeping one of our denizens on-board, I’m choosing to ignore your instruction (for this post only; I’m done now).

Back on topic then: I’m seriously hyped to start building lists with the new book. First thing I do will be to write a purely fluff list of all of my favourite sadistic torturers. Killer CC Archon with Incubi, Trueborn, Splinter Rack gunboats, and Scourges. Plus a Cult of Hellions and Reavers.

Now I’m just praying that my dex can ship to the Netherlands this week in time for me to collect it on Saturday...

I ordered Piety and Pain. A friend of mine plays Sisters, so he will take that half of the box.

WrackYourBrains wrote:

Back on topic then: I’m seriously hyped to start building lists with the new book. First thing I do will be to write a purely fluff list of all of my favourite sadistic torturers. Killer CC Archon with Incubi, Trueborn, Splinter Rack gunboats, and Scourges. Plus a Cult of Hellions and Reavers.

I was messing around with lists over the weekend and was pleasantly surprised by how far my points stretched. Granted, it was a little rough as I don't have the book yet and so I'm just going by old points and leaks, but still.

I'd been a little concerned that with stuff going up in price and with the cost of various upgrades (2 Master Archons, a Master Succubus, 2 Trueborn, 1 Bloodbrides, 5 PT Venoms with double SC etc.) I'd quickly find myself out of points. However, I found I actually had sufficient points to include almost everything I wanted into my list.

I've finally finished wading through Skari's marathon book review (seriously, he could have just sent me the book and I'd have read it quicker than that ) and he seems very enthused. I am not sure I agree with the amounts of 'awesome' and 'sooooo good' that he and his guests dished out but the book does seem to be fairly solid. I also watched Vanguard Tactics' battle report of Newkhari v Bobby G's Boys in Blue. The Drukhari just about scraped a win having previously lost every battle report so that seems positive. I think I was probably right to suspect the absence of coven reveals to be indicative of nerfs as their survivability seems to have taken a big hit and I'm not sure, DT liquifier spam aside, (which will almost certainly get FAQ'd into oblivion sooner or later) that they've gained too much.

Nonetheless, I've pre-ordered the codex and cards and will try to actually put together some lists for when we're finally allowed out of the house and can play again, hopefully in a few weeks time.

Finally, with mod hat on, can I just reiterate what Cavash said; there is no need for personal attacks. We seem to have reached a peaceful solution so let's try to keep it that way. Respect each other and if you disagree with someone, argue your case or just ignore them. No personal attacks are needed or warranted. Thank you.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

WrackYourBrains wrote:

Back on topic then: I’m seriously hyped to start building lists with the new book. First thing I do will be to write a purely fluff list of all of my favourite sadistic torturers. Killer CC Archon with Incubi, Trueborn, Splinter Rack gunboats, and Scourges. Plus a Cult of Hellions and Reavers.

I was messing around with lists over the weekend and was pleasantly surprised by how far my points stretched. Granted, it was a little rough as I don't have the book yet and so I'm just going by old points and leaks, but still.

I'd been a little concerned that with stuff going up in price and with the cost of various upgrades (2 Master Archons, a Master Succubus, 2 Trueborn, 1 Bloodbrides, 5 PT Venoms with double SC etc.) I'd quickly find myself out of points. However, I found I actually had sufficient points to include almost everything I wanted into my list.

Same happened to me i think its becasue triple ravagers arent auto anymore ^_^
Also i usualy put at least a plane in but they suck balls now lol

While at work I'm extremely limited on my accessible information but I'm fighting to get these discussions on the Dark City! OMG. So dumb (working for a living).
I try to limit questions based on my internet accessibility, but I keep seeing references to "Planes suck" everywhere.
Can someone fill me in. Took me a while but I think I have the basis of why Hellions are so good, but as long as I'm begging, I'd not mind a specific addressing of why I need to buy 20 more to add to my current 10.
Thanks haters!

HERO wrote:

So... what did we all end up ordering in preparation for the book drop?

I was going through my minis bin and I found 2 NOS Warriors/Wyches and 3 NIB Venoms.. that's been sitting there since 5th and I completely forgot about. I did manage to order some Incubi from GW because they seem to be sold out everywhere else.

Oh, and dice, I picked up some of the new dice and another Succubus (bringing my total to 3). Will probably look to do some conversions with them.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

I cannot change what happened between us in the past. Beyond an apology, the most I can offer is to try and amend my behaviour and temper my negativity in the future.

Cheers

May I show you this girls as a substitute?

https://www.ragingheroes.com/a/s/products/executrix-cg-ve-sf

nerdelemental wrote:

While at work I'm extremely limited on my accessible information but I'm fighting to get these discussions on the Dark City! OMG. So dumb (working for a living).
I try to limit questions based on my internet accessibility, but I keep seeing references to "Planes suck" everywhere.
Can someone fill me in. Took me a while but I think I have the basis of why Hellions are so good, but as long as I'm begging, I'd not mind a specific addressing of why I need to buy 20 more to add to my current 10.
Thanks haters!

Hellions are better at 20 because you can use the eviscerating flyby and roll 20 dice for mortal wounds since the stratagem does not seem to have a limit
Planes imo suck becasue they cannot contest or cap objectives so they have no clear role, i mean you can just take another ravager instead of a razorwing and still capture objectives. Also for some strange reason they did not update them with the second pivot that CW have which limits them alot.
About The voidraven the new mine looks amazing on paper but you are spending 200 points for something that MIGHT do ZERO damage since the mortals proc on 4+ so its not really worth the points but im on the fence on that

DevilDoll wrote:

Planes imo suck becasue they cannot contest or cap objectives so they have no clear role, i mean you can just take another ravager instead of a razorwing and still capture objectives. Also for some strange reason they did not update them with the second pivot that CW have which limits them alot.

That's been a pet peeve of mine ever since 5e but GW seem absolutely set on the idea that CW flyers are more agile than ours, for no apparent reason!

DevilDoll wrote:

About The voidraven the new mine looks amazing on paper but you are spending 200 points for something that MIGHT do ZERO damage since the mortals proc on 4+ so its not really worth the points but im on the fence on that  

I'd be tempted against Tau if they are castled up but you have no idea how many times I am capable of rolling <4 on a D6!

Count Adhemar wrote:

I've finally finished wading through Skari's marathon book review (seriously, he could have just sent me the book and I'd have read it quicker than that ) and he seems very enthused. I am not sure I agree with the amounts of 'awesome' and 'sooooo good' that he and his guests dished out but the book does seem to be fairly solid. I also watched Vanguard Tactics' battle report of Newkhari v Bobby G's Boys in Blue. The Drukhari just about scraped a win having previously lost every battle report so that seems positive. I think I was probably right to suspect the absence of coven reveals to be indicative of nerfs as their survivability seems to have taken a big hit and I'm not sure, DT liquifier spam aside, (which will almost certainly get FAQ'd into oblivion sooner or later) that they've gained too much.

No.. please no. I just want to build my drive by shooting wracks!

DevilDoll wrote:

nerdelemental wrote:

While at work I'm extremely limited on my accessible information but I'm fighting to get these discussions on the Dark City! OMG. So dumb (working for a living).
I try to limit questions based on my internet accessibility, but I keep seeing references to "Planes suck" everywhere.
Can someone fill me in. Took me a while but I think I have the basis of why Hellions are so good, but as long as I'm begging, I'd not mind a specific addressing of why I need to buy 20 more to add to my current 10.
Thanks haters!

Hellions are better at 20 because you can use the eviscerating flyby and roll 20 dice for mortal wounds since the stratagem does not seem to have a limit
Planes imo suck becasue they cannot contest or cap objectives so they have no clear role, i mean you can just take another ravager instead of a razorwing and still capture objectives. Also for some strange reason they did not update them with the second pivot that CW have which limits them alot.
About The voidraven the new mine looks amazing on paper but you are spending 200 points for something that MIGHT do ZERO damage since the mortals proc on 4+ so its not really worth the points but im on the fence on that  

The razorwing has def fallen in usefulness, which sucks, because the flyers are awesome models.

I think the voidraven has become more useful than the razorwing, especially for MSU spam or hoard lists that still have a few vehicles or large creatures. Yes, you can not spend 200 points and get a ravager with 3 DLs, or 3 Dissies, but the bomb has really good potential (50% of those rolls are doing damage), and you get missiles (blast) and 2 void lances/void scythes (also blast) on top of that. So the raven can drop the bomb, launch missiles, AND still have effectively 2 DLs for dealing with large enemies, while the ravager has to pick its profile, and is still kinda stuck against massive hoards.

I think there is room in a list for both.

I need a display case, though. Want my army, plus all the stuff I dont field, laid out for display!

Is there any change to the Razorwing statline whatsoever? (still T6 10W?)

Im kinda sad and happy about new dex.

Pros:
- Drukhari became glass canon (many options how to rip off faces but still 5+ 6++ in common)
- Too many shinenigans (redeploy, teleports, consolidation, jump back to transport etc.)
- Alphastrike with ALL you have (including transport)
- True leadership rapists (not for mehrines )
- Expanded mortal wound pool (oh yes, finally)
- Army gained sustain (regeneration of covens)

Cons:
- Auto choices (sadly but black heart kabal imho outperform any other, same goes for cults)
- Shifting army style to only one option: go into fight asap and use cp to protect units
- Some units are dead (scourges and cronos)
- We still rely on secondary missions (but I think I just don't like 9th edition mission rules)

So is it good codex for me, in general YES. I like it more than previous 2 books with spam fest. Do I like modern Drukhari focus on melee? Nope. I prefer gunboats and venoms with heavy shooting but these days are gone. But still I'm happy with new dex. Maybe coz I got mine FW delaque weapon sets for necromunda ?

effespwnz wrote:

Im kinda sad and happy about new dex.

Cons:
- Auto choices (sadly but black heart kabal imho outperform any other, same goes for cults)
- Shifting army style to only one option: go into fight asap and use cp to protect units
- Some units are dead (scourges and cronos)
- We still rely on secondary missions (but I think I just don't like 9th edition mission rules)

One good thing about this codex is that opinions seem to be all over the place regarding it. For example, I think that this is the first opinion I've seen where the Cronos was declared 'dead'. Most other opinions seem to state the opposite.  Also, I think poison tongue and obsidian rose are both arguably better than Black Heart, depending on build, of course.

One thing to remember about our LD shenanigans is that a good amount of them circumvent marine resistances. A lot of the marine LD stuff involves keeping them from failing morale checks and attrition tests. While that counteracts *some* of our LD tricks, it doesn't do anything against others - like PGLs and Tormentors still work just fine vs. marines, especially along with our stuff that lowers LD scores.

effespwnz wrote:

Cons:
- Auto choices (sadly but black heart kabal imho outperform any other, same goes for cults)

Ill fight you on that point Venom Spam lists would probably work better as a Custom Kabal, using the exploding 6's to hit, combined with something else (probably the +2 movement so I can try to re-live our Flayed Skull days).

But TBF, I will start off playing Black Heart with my Kabals. Now that we dont have AoV where you need to not roll a 1. Seriously, I stopped playing BH after the second time I re-rolled a 1 into a second 1. DOH!

effespwnz wrote:

- Auto choices (sadly but black heart kabal imho outperform any other, same goes for cults)

At least to my mind, Black Heart is only king in the RSR detachment.

Granted, I think this is a bit of a shame - it's weird that only Black Heart gets a pile of extra effects in that detachment type.

However, outside of RSR, I'm not convinced Black Heart is markedly better than Obsidian Rose. Both get very similar reroll effects, and +6" of range seems pretty good - especially in Splinter Rack Raiders (30" rapid fire, anyone?).

What's more, if you're using the multi-Patrol setup, I think there's something to be said for including multiple, different Kabals. For example, neither BH nor OR offer any significant improvement for Venoms, so if you're using a lot of those it might be worth taking a Poison Tongue detachment (or the custom Toxin Crafters one).

This would also allow you a second Master Archon and - far more importantly - a second Trueborn squad.

That said, I do find it slightly odd that BH and OR both get 1 free reroll per squad, but PT and FS don't. It seems quite a strong effect for those two to get in addition to their other abilities, and I'm surprised FS and PT didn't get any equivalent.


Also, I'm curious as to which Cult (no pun intended) you think is the best?

effespwnz wrote:

Im kinda sad and happy about new dex.

Cons:
- Auto choices (sadly but black heart kabal imho outperform any other, same goes for cults)
- Shifting army style to only one option: go into fight asap and use cp to protect units
- Some units are dead (scourges and cronos)
- We still rely on secondary missions (but I think I just don't like 9th edition mission rules)

The Cronos is one of the best units in the Codex now IMHO.
- Can resuscitate a Drukhari model (including a Talos) for each enemy model it kills. Charge that bloody chaff screen!
- Rerolls in 6” to everyone
- Can give first turn advance and charge and 5++ to Taloi and Reavers with the new strat

Scourges are still better scramblers than mandrakes, just don’t give them special weapons
- Cheaper
- Tougher (up to 2+ with the strat and 5++ vs 5++)
- Faster, allowing a more flexible order or scrambling and a double use for engage all fronts
- Harder to screen

People will just always complain when things change and they have to rethink hownto play their army.
I am stoked for this codex as there are so many more ways to play dark eldar now.

The units are way more valid. Our charscters are better, more units aren't dud choices like in the last book. There are just way more options amd the army just seems way better. This is an incredibly well written book.

Gherma wrote:

The Cronos is one of the best units in the Codex now IMHO.
- Can resuscitate a Drukhari model (including a Talos) for each enemy model it kills. Charge that bloody chaff screen!

In theory you are correct.

In reality, it has a 6+ invul and will be removed from the table turn 1. It is a decent model, but not for the points, and against a competent opponent, it wont last long.

Talos are pretty much in the same boat. Too fragile for the points and too slow to make them viable.

Incubi and Wyches won big. Succubus is a freaking monster. Archons are Meh, but needed. Warriors... still not sure about. trueborn? Probably not in competitive play, as black heart is what you need to take, but poisoned tongue is where trueborn shine.
Wracks can be deadly in large groups, and are pretty cheap to boot.
Grotesques? Improved weapons but at that price point, taking hellions with +1 toughness is a better value.
Lelith is going to take a back seat to custom succubi... she is just not up to par, simply because of the "1" damage.
Drazahar is a monster. Pay the -2 CP to include him in a small battalion.
Beasts still are not that good.
Court of the archon... this may need more looking into, as they might be strong. Need to really dig into their rules to be sure, but they seem pricey.
Reavers- Why? Just take hellions.
Mandrakes? I personally wont take them but I can see why others would. the late game redeploy is the only thing that makes me hesitate on dismissing them.
Scourges? no upgrades, blasters or shredders only I am afraid.
Our planes. missles nerfed, the bomb looks great but is situational and random, and not a lot of maneuverability. Points are better spent on more raiders.


Just my opinion from a competitive viewpoint.

Gherma wrote:

effespwnz wrote:

Im kinda sad and happy about new dex.

Cons:
- Auto choices (sadly but black heart kabal imho outperform any other, same goes for cults)
- Shifting army style to only one option: go into fight asap and use cp to protect units
- Some units are dead (scourges and cronos)
- We still rely on secondary missions (but I think I just don't like 9th edition mission rules)

The Cronos is one of the best units in the Codex now IMHO.
- Can resuscitate a Drukhari model (including a Talos) for each enemy model it kills. Charge that bloody chaff screen!
- Rerolls in 6” to everyone
- Can give first turn advance and charge and 5++ to Taloi and Reavers with the new strat

Scourges are still better scramblers than mandrakes, just don’t give them special weapons
- Cheaper
- Tougher (up to 2+ with the strat and 5++ vs 5++)
- Faster, allowing a more flexible order or scrambling and a double use for engage all fronts
- Harder to screen

Yeah I love the new rules for the cronos. I am hoping to be able to add it to most of my lists

fisheyes wrote:

Ill fight you on that point  Venom Spam lists would probably work better as a Custom Kabal, using the exploding 6's to hit, combined with something else (probably the +2 movement so I can try to re-live our Flayed Skull days).

I just don't believe in shooting spam even with new rules. Transport now can punch hard and support melee units in combat. Looks like synergy to me. Solid one.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Also, I'm curious as to which Cult (no pun intended) you think is the best?

For wych cult with new warzone book I think cult of strife. The number of rules just overweighs others.

Gherma wrote:

The Cronos is one of the best units in the Codex now IMHO.
- Can resuscitate a Drukhari model (including a Talos) for each enemy model it kills. Charge that bloody chaff screen!
- Rerolls in 6” to everyone
- Can give first turn advance and charge and 5++ to Taloi and Reavers with the new strat

Scourges are still better scramblers than mandrakes, just don’t give them special weapons
- Cheaper
- Tougher (up to 2+ with the strat and 5++ vs 5++)
- Faster, allowing a more flexible order or scrambling and a double use for engage all fronts
- Harder to screen

Why I consider scourges dead unit? We have mandrakes.
Why I consider cronos dead unit? Reliability. What will happen with that amazing shenanigan fails? You lost your strat that is based around one unit. And of course the price you need to pay to have backup plan. You can just throw pile of wracks and have better results with all melee buffs.

Dunno maybe I am bad player but when I focusing on something like this - it never gets executed In my meta my opponents are mehrines: blue one, icy blue one lots of black and white one, even green.