Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

nerdelemental wrote:

Pippolele wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Skulnbonz wrote:

Warriors... still not sure about.  trueborn? Probably not in competitive play, as black heart is what you need to take, but poisoned tongue is where trueborn shine.

Out of interest, why do you think Trueborn are better in Poison Tongue?

I'd have thought the bigger draw would be the BS2+ Blasters and Dark Lance, so I'd think Obsidian Rose for the wound reroll would be the most advantageous for them.

I assume it is because the 2+ to hit on the remaining 7 splinter rifles they carry is inconsequential and thus wasted.

I am also not fully convinced I want to pay 20 points to have 3x 2+ dark lights.

Let's do the math and find out!

2blasters + 1Dark Lance Trueborn vs 4 blasters and 1 Dark Lance (same points in terms of dark light)

Trueborn: 2x5/6*1/2*3.5= 2.92dmg + 1x5/6*1/2*5=2.08 Gran Total of 5 average damage
Warriors: 4*2/3*1/2*3.5= 3.5 dmg + 1*1/2*1/2*5= 1.25 Gran Total of 4.7 average damage

Ok, I am convinced it is a good investment of 20 points hahaha!

Sweet!
I'm lousy with maths. Really lousy. Care to help a brother out, Pippolele?
I'd like to see the numbers comparing damage output for a fully equipped Trueborn squad loaded with Blasters versus their non-Trueborn counterparts, ignoring the points upgrade. Essentially, if I spend the additional points, what would the damage return on investment look like?

Glad you asked!
So you want me to compare the damage output of 10 Warriors with 2 blasters and 1 Dark Lance vs the same but for Trueborn?
Any obsessions you want to apply?
Against what kind of Target(s)?

Whoa! So this is what it's like to have a secretary or servent. It's like I'm one of the 1%ers. Sweet.
Well, since you're so willing to do all the maths with all the variables, I guess:
Obsidian Rose
10 Kabalites with 9 splinters plus a splinter canon vs. 5 Trueborn with as many blasters as they can carry.
(looking for how much damage potential for the point investment, but their targets are completely different so it's tough).

Eventually, once I'm totally convinced they're worth the points (I already know I'll be testing them on the table asap), I'd look at a squad of loaded Blasterborn against a squad of equally equipped Scourges. I'm already thinking the Blasterborn will be a better investment. They'll get the +6" from OR, have the durability and maneuverability of the Venom....

nerdelemental wrote:

Whoa! So this is what it's like to have a secretary or servent. It's like I'm one of the 1%ers. Sweet.
Well, since you're so willing to do all the maths with all the variables, I guess:
Obsidian Rose
10 Kabalites with 9 splinters plus a splinter canon vs. 5 Trueborn with as many blasters as they can carry.
(looking for how much damage potential for the point investment, but their targets are completely different so it's tough).

Eventually, once I'm totally convinced they're worth the points (I already know I'll be testing them on the table asap), I'd look at a squad of loaded Blasterborn against a squad of equally equipped Scourges. I'm already thinking the Blasterborn will be a better investment. They'll get the +6" from OR, have the durability and maneuverability of the Venom....

Whoah! So that's what it's like to be a servant for the top 1%:
You are expected to know what they want hahaha

Jokes aside: I need you to tell me the target or I can't go beyond measuring the to hit probability. Also, Trueborn still can only carry one blaster every 5 models.

Blasterborn cant happen any more. New trueborn are the same as kabalites, but with better leadership and BS. A squad of 5 Trueborn can take 1 blaster.

What you want is the comparison between:

(Blast pistol probably not necessary. Hitting at 24" rather than 6" will almost always be better).
10xKabalites with 10xRifles, or 9xRifles and 1xCannon
10xKabalites with 7xRifles, 2xBlaster, 1xDL
10xTrueborn with 7xRifles, 2xBlaster, 1xDL

Move vs Not move
Splinter Racks vs Not

You want to know that vs MEQ, GEQ and a vehicle.

You want to know Obsidian Rose vs Poison Tongue (while weaker than the other 2 custom obsessions, it does have the metalotoxin for the vehicle) vs the 2 custom obsessions that boost poison damage.

GreyArea wrote:

Whats the AP on the new liquifiers again?

I remember they were S4, autohitting D6 shots but couldn't remember the AP

Edit: also does anyone know how many pts they cost?

12" Range, S4 AP-2 D1, 5 pts per gun

Yes. This is important to my needs. How exciting to learn the stuffs!
What Albions-Angel posted would be *exactly* what I'd need now that I realize what I want is not what I've got. Still, I'll make the best of it. I have immediately adjusted my perception to a Raider filled with Trueborn, splinter racks, and blasters and Dark Lances. Holy hell. What a nightmare. All of what Albions-Angel suggested would certainly help a ton to figure out which obsession and how to run them.
With so many points invested I have a hard time thinking Obsidian Rose (my go-to anyway) isn't the best call. Keep them in the back, better protected, longer guns for maximized potential. Seems ridiculous.

sekac wrote:

GreyArea wrote:

Whats the AP on the new liquifiers again?

I remember they were S4, autohitting D6 shots but couldn't remember the AP

Edit: also does anyone know how many pts they cost?

12" Range, S4 AP-2 D1, 5 pts per gun

5 pts for Grots but 10 for Wracks for some reason?!

Count Adhemar wrote:

sekac wrote:

GreyArea wrote:

Whats the AP on the new liquifiers again?

I remember they were S4, autohitting D6 shots but couldn't remember the AP

Edit: also does anyone know how many pts they cost?

12" Range, S4 AP-2 D1, 5 pts per gun

5 pts for Grots but 10 for Wracks for some reason?!

That's weird. I would expect it to be the opposite.

Count Adhemar wrote:

sekac wrote:

GreyArea wrote:

Whats the AP on the new liquifiers again?

I remember they were S4, autohitting D6 shots but couldn't remember the AP

Edit: also does anyone know how many pts they cost?

12" Range, S4 AP-2 D1, 5 pts per gun

5 pts for Grots but 10 for Wracks for some reason?!

In Grotesques, they replace the Cleaver. That's why.

The Cleaver should be 5 points, but it is in the 40 of the Grots.
It is like:
35 Grots
+5 Cleaver
+10 Liquefator
But we have 40 for Grots w/cleaver, that you can exchange for a Liquefator at (just) +5 points.


Wracks simply get a free Liquefator at his full cost, which is 10 pt. Nothing swap for the gun.

That explains it. Well spotted!

Can anyone tell me how razorwing jets got nerfed? I can't seem to find it.

missiles took a hit, I know that.

They wrote a lot of wound rerolling weapon rules out of this book, huh?

Shredder, Hydra Gauntlets, Shatterfields...

Skulnbonz wrote:

missiles took a hit, I know that.

monoscythe and necrotoxin missiles stayed the same.

Shatterfield missiles got side-graded. Got an addition -1AP but lost reroll wounds. Personally, I prefer the additional AP.

It also probably helps that they're all blast weapons too.

AzraeI wrote:

They wrote a lot of wound rerolling weapon rules out of this book, huh?

Shredder, Hydra Gauntlets, Shatterfields...

Yeah. Chainflails aren't really an autotake for Talos in a TAC list anymore.

Count Adhemar wrote:

sekac wrote:

GreyArea wrote:

Whats the AP on the new liquifiers again?

I remember they were S4, autohitting D6 shots but couldn't remember the AP

Edit: also does anyone know how many pts they cost?

12" Range, S4 AP-2 D1, 5 pts per gun

5 pts for Grots but 10 for Wracks for some reason?!

Oh that's right! It's 10 on wracks because it's a straight added weapon. On Grots you give up...the cleaver i believe. You pay less since you're swapping out.

Quick question:

So, if your archon is fighting some space meringues with a venom blade (poison 2+) and they play Transhuman Physiology, it actually doesn't help them at all and you still wound them on a 2+, right?

Same if you're playing with Poison Tongue. Transphysy Thingy doesn't stop you from wounding them on a 3+?

Also, things like Smokescreen and Skilled Riders that give you a -1 to hit certain things would not affect Trueborn?

Thanks!

Barking Agatha wrote:

Quick question:

So, if your archon is fighting some space meringues with a venom blade (poison 2+) and they play Transhuman Physiology, it actually doesn't help them at all and you still wound them on a 2+, right?

Same if you're playing with Poison Tongue. Transphysy Thingy doesn't stop you from wounding them on a 3+?

Also, things like Smokescreen and Skilled Riders that give you a -1 to hit certain things would not affect Trueborn?

Thanks!

Trueborn always hit on 2+


For the other...I think Transphy will win. Because it actually "discard" yours 1-2-3 results.
But poison ignore any -1/+1 to wound.

Hmm, I just noticed that Soul Seeker now requires LoS. Why, GW?

Cerve wrote:

Barking Agatha wrote:

Quick question:

So, if your archon is fighting some space meringues with a venom blade (poison 2+) and they play Transhuman Physiology, it actually doesn't help them at all and you still wound them on a 2+, right?

Same if you're playing with Poison Tongue. Transphysy Thingy doesn't stop you from wounding them on a 3+?

Also, things like Smokescreen and Skilled Riders that give you a -1 to hit certain things would not affect Trueborn?

Thanks!

Trueborn always hit on 2+


For the other...I think Transphy will win. Because it actually "discard" yours 1-2-3 results.
But poison ignore any -1/+1 to wound.

Yeah, I think transhuman is specifically worded to ignore weapon abilities like Poison.

You didn't think our abilities would override theirs, did you?

On the plus side, your non-PT Kabalites are laughing.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

You didn't think our abilities would override theirs, did you?

I kind of did, yeah.

One rule says 'an unmodified wound roll of this value is always successful', and the other one says 'an unmodified wound roll of 1-3 fails'.  Except that it adds that bit about 'irrespective of any abilities that blah blah blah'.

I mean, 'irrespective' really. Who writes these things? Oh well...

Barking Agatha wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

You didn't think our abilities would override theirs, did you?

I kind of did, yeah.

One rule says 'an unmodified wound roll of this value is always successful', and the other one says 'an unmodified wound roll of 1-3 fails'.  Except that it adds that bit about 'irrespective of any abilities that blah blah blah'.

I mean, 'irrespective' really. Who writes these things? Oh well...

If transhuman physiology was a built-in ability, then the poison rule would override it, as rules like that favor the attacker vs. opposing abilities inherent in the target. The problem is that transhuman physiology is a stratagem, rather than an abillity that is already on the datasheet. So it *probably* overrides the poison ability.

However, that raises another question: does poison 2+ (or 3+) override Prophets of Flesh's ability?

krayd wrote:

Skulnbonz wrote:

missiles took a hit, I know that.

monoscythe and necrotoxin missiles stayed the same.

Shatterfield missiles got side-graded. Got an addition -1AP but lost reroll wounds. Personally, I prefer the additional AP.

It also probably helps that they're all blast weapons too.

Sweet im ok with this!

krayd wrote:

Barking Agatha wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

You didn't think our abilities would override theirs, did you?

I kind of did, yeah.

One rule says 'an unmodified wound roll of this value is always successful', and the other one says 'an unmodified wound roll of 1-3 fails'.  Except that it adds that bit about 'irrespective of any abilities that blah blah blah'.

I mean, 'irrespective' really. Who writes these things? Oh well...

If transhuman physiology was a built-in ability, then the poison rule would override it, as rules like that favor the attacker vs. opposing abilities inherent in the target. The problem is that transhuman physiology is a stratagem, rather than an abillity that is already on the datasheet. So it *probably* overrides the poison ability.

However, that raises another question: does poison 2+ (or 3+) override Prophets of Flesh's ability?

Prophets of Flesh has similar wording to Transhuman Physiology in that it overrides abilities of the attacking unit and its weapons, so I'd say it would also take precedence over Poison.

Tbh, the fact that Poison ignores negative (and positive) modifiers to wound seems like a pretty niche rule.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

krayd wrote:

Barking Agatha wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

You didn't think our abilities would override theirs, did you?

I kind of did, yeah.

One rule says 'an unmodified wound roll of this value is always successful', and the other one says 'an unmodified wound roll of 1-3 fails'.  Except that it adds that bit about 'irrespective of any abilities that blah blah blah'.

I mean, 'irrespective' really. Who writes these things? Oh well...

If transhuman physiology was a built-in ability, then the poison rule would override it, as rules like that favor the attacker vs. opposing abilities inherent in the target. The problem is that transhuman physiology is a stratagem, rather than an abillity that is already on the datasheet. So it *probably* overrides the poison ability.

However, that raises another question: does poison 2+ (or 3+) override Prophets of Flesh's ability?

Prophets of Flesh has similar wording to Transhuman Physiology in that it overrides abilities of the attacking unit and its weapons, so I'd say it would also take precedence over Poison.

Tbh, the fact that Poison ignores negative (and positive) modifiers to wound seems like a pretty niche rule.

DT +1 to wound doesn't work on poisons now.

Shadowseers and Belakor both have -1 to wound rules. Can't remeber if DG has something too.

Cerve wrote:

DT +1 to wound doesn't work on poisons now.

Shadowseers and Belakor both have -1 to wound rules. Can't remeber if DG has something too.

For the most part, yes. Though I guess if you need your splinter cannons to wound T3 on a 3+, the +1 to wound will work for that, due to being Str 3.